Kef R series or Revel Performa3 with EMO gear?

[patricksf]

Hoping maybe someone already has a similar set up that can help describe the results of mixing one of these 2 speaker series with Emo gear attached. I currently have a UMC-200 and a Gen II XPA-5. I'm auditioning the Revels and Kef's, but of course in both cases they are being fed by very different pre/pro's or AVR's, and as such yield different results than what I'm likely to hear with my emo gear.

I'm planning on a full 5.1 with the R700 as the largest for Kef, or the 206's for Revel. Any input from any current owners of either would be much appreciated.

Of course if Emo finally announces some great info around their "new" speaker line in the near future that suggests they may be in the same ballpark as what I'm cross shopping, I may just have to hold off. But we shall see!

[Boomzilla]

I'm VERY interested in the exact same speakers, although I've heard neither. I'll watch this thread to see if anyone else has comparative opinions. If you get to audition the both, PLEASE post your impressions here!

Thanks - Boomzilla

[patricksf]

Boomzilla, you have good taste! ;-) I've already heard the Revel 206's, using an Arcam CD player through an NAD AVR (85 W per channel). Keep in mind I don't have any need for an enormous amount of volume, as my room is not huge, so after hearing the 206's, I didn't even bother with the 208's. My impression of these was very favorable. Mids were very clear, highs were crisp but not overly bright or forward. Bass was plenty for the type of music I lean towards without needing a sub for music, however I could see some wanting more if they are bumping a lot of Hip Hop or chamber music. Since my application is 85% HT and 15% music I intend to get a sub anyway, so bass wise, it was very capable. I spent about 30 mins with them, listening to a dozen different tracks. They were very capable all around, although my criticisms would be a lack of separation at times, as well as not really placing instruments in the room as i've heard with other speakers (sound stage was a bit flat and narrow). HOWEVER, I think that could be largely attributed to the fact that the listening room I was in had them set up about 6 feet apart, and 8 feet away from me, and not toe'd in at all. I really think if I'd have moved them around a bit, that criticism likely goes away. So my overall impression is they are excellent sounding, however I wasn't immediately bowled over by anything they did amazingly well. Before deciding on a purchase, i'll go back and ask to have them repositioned and see how that addresses my gripes.

Phew.... didn't plan to be so wordy :-P I'm planning on hearing the Kef's in the next few days. I'll share those thoughts too.

[briank]

The P3's have a very smooth treble that would sound great with Emo amps. Great soundstage and imaging. They do disappear when set up properly. Detail is excellent but not as good as Revel Salon/Studio. Overall I can't think of another speaker under $5k that I would rather have.

[Boomzilla]

Well, I'm also eyeing some Studios...

I've got a lower end KEF on the way just to see how those concentric tweeters sound in my room.

Have you heard Thiel products? What was your impression of them vs. the Revels?

[patricksf]

Haven't listened to Thiel speakers, although the Revel dealer had them. Their floor standing models do not pass the Wife's standards for appearance. Her exact words were "You are NOT putting those gawd awful looking things in our house. They look straight out of the 70's!", so sound in that case is irrelevant! :-D

And I have to agree with her, not the most attractive cabinets out there.

[Lsc]

I second that about Revel and Emotiva. The problem with KEF for me was that there was no place to audition them.

I did hear the F206, F208 and the Studio2 - I decided on the F208 because the scale of the F208 was a close match for the Studio2 at less than 1/3rd the price. Also got the C208 because it was a closer match to the F208 and is just massive.

The F206 had a little less scale and dynamics but still it was extremely impressive. If you have a good sub, I don't really see you losing anything significant.

I listen to music thru my laptop -> xda2 -> umc-200 -> xpr-5 -> F208 & SVS SB13 sub.

I for one can't see anyone not being happy with these. Granted there are other options out there but if you chose this one, I can pretty much guarantee audio bliss!

The umc-200 is the weakest link here but even still, it still sounds very very good..enough that I can hold off my XMC-1 purchase until HDMI 2.0.

[patricksf]

Thanks LSC, nice to know someone else has already gone this route with good success. I'll be replacing my current sub as part of this upgrade, so haven't settled on what I'll get to pair with the speakers, but both Revel and Kef offer a pretty decent sealed enclosure option to go with them from what I understand, so I think the F206 or R700 should go low enough for my purposes. I will say though that the F208 does have a pretty great presence just sitting in the room, no audio needed

[Lsc]

Exactly! Call me vain but the look of the F208 side by side with the Studio2 really got my attention.

I have heard that Revel Performa3 and that Kef series is a pick-em. In Revel's favor though is the curved cabinet. Only the F206 and F208 have that from the Performa3 line.

As far as the sub, you have lots of options. Internet Direct and Retail.

Also, I wouldn't even consider Emo's new offering. I just think the R&D involved in these great speakers can't be matched by Emo.

[copperpipe]

I have the Kef R300's vertically bi-amped with 2 mini-x's, absolutely love them. The detail in the highs + mids is incredible, huge soundstage etc. The bass is the best I've heard in a bookshelf, not so much because of low-end output but because it's clean and the complete opposite of "boomy". Some bookshelfs always have a bit of that bookshelf sound in the low end but it's totally gone in these. They were designed using computation fluid dynamics, bit of a buzzword / buzzphrase but means they used computers to model the air going through the speaker and based on all of that data they calculate the best place to add bracing etc.

I use them in my computer setup, I watch movies on them too. I honestly don't miss having no center channel, they are so good at placing sounds all around the speaker that voices come from the screen and not the speaker.

They look stunning (piano black) too!

[patricksf]

Thanks for the input Copper... I'm hoping to hear the Kefs before the weekend is out. Lsc, you are probably right. I don't know that Emotiva has the R&D chops at this stage to create a speaker in the caliber of the Revels or the Kef's, maybe overly optimistic on my part. The tweeter design of the Emo's did get me to start considering auditioning the Martin Logan Motion series speakers though. But I have a feeling those are also not at the same level as the revels or kefs.

[patricksf]

Well, got a chance to listen to the Kef R700's today at what is my new favorite Hi-end audio shop here in SF (Audio Vision SF. Gentleman by the name of Randolph helped me. THIS is what a high end shop experience should be like!). Heard these using an Arcam AVR-450 and an Arcam CD player as well. 1st thing of note was a very good sound stage, the speakers really did "disappear". The highs were clear, but not forward. These speakers definitely show you flaws in recordings, but reward good material with great mids, etc. Compared to the Revel Performa 3's they were a little leaner down low, but since I have no intention of using 2 channel without a sub, I don't know that I consider that a draw back for my application. I really think what Lsc said is pretty true, its hard to say that the Revel or Kef are far better than the other. I prefer the curved cabinet of the Revel, but the Kef drivers are more pleasing to my eye, and offered in Rosewood which the wife likes.

Probably comes down to which dealer will "deal" on price to some extent, but the Kefs are the front runners. Oh, and I've ruled out either subs that go with these lines and am pretty well decided on either a JL Audio or REL... gotta go back for another round of listening for those.

[Lsc]

Feb 24, 2014 19:16:34 GMT -5 patricksf said:

Well, got a chance to listen to the Kef R700's today at what is my new favorite Hi-end audio shop here in SF (Audio Vision SF. Gentleman by the name of Randolph helped me. THIS is what a high end shop experience should be like!). Heard these using an Arcam AVR-450 and an Arcam CD player as well. 1st thing of note was a very good sound stage, the speakers really did "disappear". The highs were clear, but not forward. These speakers definitely show you flaws in recordings, but reward good material with great mids, etc. Compared to the Revel Performa 3's they were a little leaner down low, but since I have no intention of using 2 channel without a sub, I don't know that I consider that a draw back for my application. I really think what Lsc said is pretty true, its hard to say that the Revel or Kef are far better than the other. I prefer the curved cabinet of the Revel, but the Kef drivers are more pleasing to my eye, and offered in Rosewood which the wife likes.

Probably comes down to which dealer will "deal" on price to some extent, but the Kefs are the front runners. Oh, and I've ruled out either subs that go with these lines and am pretty well decided on either a JL Audio or REL... gotta go back for another round of listening for those.

I have a buddy who wants to take a look at the Kef R700, he found a dealer.

Today we listened to the Focal Electra 1038Be and the Focal Aria 948. The Aria wasn't as good as the F208 for the same retail price...but the Electra was incredible. I guess they should be for 14K but talk about amazing. They exceed the F208 and pretty convincingly too. The 1028Be is a little more affordable but still very expensive.

The refinement at that over 10K high end is pretty awesome. I'm not sure if it's in your budget but just thought I'd point it out.

[patricksf]

Like you said, at 14K, they BETTER sound incredible. Those are above what I'm looking to spend, and in reality would likely set off a whole OTHER bit of spending, since my transport and processor would now be the weak links in my chain. Still trying to stick to <10K all in on a new 5.1, which seems doable going Revel or Kef with a JL E112.

[Lsc]

Feb 25, 2014 17:07:49 GMT -5 patricksf said:

Like you said, at 14K, they BETTER sound incredible. Those are above what I'm looking to spend, and in reality would likely set off a whole OTHER bit of spending, since my transport and processor would now be the weak links in my chain. Still trying to stick to <10K all in on a new 5.1, which seems doable going Revel or Kef with a JL E112.

They sure did..I never had a let down listening to my F208 until that day when I came home. But I did forget they only used HD recordings...that does make a difference.

That sounds like a plan and your system will be better than 99% of the people out there. I'm still extremely happy with my Revels both 2 channel and for movies. The C208 is a great center channel.

[bub]

Beyond annoying...

[patricksf]

Well, finally got a chance to hear the F208's with a C208 center... and wow. The F206's I'd heard clearly were not well set up. Yes, the 208's should go deeper than the F206 or the R700's based on cabinet size and woofer driver size. But good god the F208's imaged well. Sound stage was very wide and really hung voices in mid air. And the low end sounded a fair bit deeper, hit harder, and was just as tight as the Kef R700. I'm sold on these. Lsc, we may have very similar set ups once i'm done, as its looking like F208 fronts, C208 center, and I'm going to give the SVS SB13 Ultra a try. The JL Audio E110 I heard was just ok. I really do think the guy who demo'd it didn't set it up properly, because it was way too lean during heavy LFE sequences on BluRay. But all the reviews I could find on the SVS SB13 Ultra were glowing, and with the 45 day trial and free return shipping, I figure I save $600 over the comparable JL Audio sub, and can put that towards going from the F206/F205 into the F208/C208. Only issue I foresee is fitting the center under my Panny ZT60 65"... That center is a beast...

[briank]

Mar 20, 2014 0:29:59 GMT -5 patricksf said:

Well, finally got a chance to hear the F208's with a C208 center... and wow. The F206's I'd heard clearly were not well set up. Yes, the 208's should go deeper than the F206 or the R700's based on cabinet size and woofer driver size. But good god the F208's imaged well. Sound stage was very wide and really hung voices in mid air. And the low end sounded a fair bit deeper, hit harder, and was just as tight as the Kef R700. I'm sold on these. Lsc, we may have very similar set ups once i'm done, as its looking like F208 fronts, C208 center, and I'm going to give the SVS SB13 Ultra a try. The JL Audio E110 I heard was just ok. I really do think the guy who demo'd it didn't set it up properly, because it was way too lean during heavy LFE sequences on BluRay. But all the reviews I could find on the SVS SB13 Ultra were glowing, and with the 45 day trial and free return shipping, I figure I save $600 over the comparable JL Audio sub, and can put that towards going from the F206/F205 into the F208/C208. Only issue I foresee is fitting the center under my Panny ZT60 65"... That center is a beast...

Glad you like them.
Just FYI, these need about a month to break-in. They will sound a little loose in the bass at first and the treble will be a little dull. I turned up the treble control by 1.5 db at first and found myself turning it down .5 db about once a week. I finally ended up at "0" after about 30 days. The bass tightened up too after a few weeks. I also found a subtle but nice improvement replacing the brass jumpers with some AQ gold plated copper jumpers.

Regarding subs, I tried the SB13 Ultra and it did match up great with the F208's especially for music. However for HT it fell just a little short on "slam". It hit hard and tight but just wasn't quite enough. If you go with the SB13 than I would recommend duals. I returned mine and have now ordered a Paradigm Sub 15, which I hope to have by the end of next week. Like you I listened to the JL E series but wasn't really impressed with its output. The JL F112 was nice and it was very very close to the SB13 overall. The JL F113 had more output than either the SB13 or F112 by a good margin.
I struggled with choosing between the F113 and Sub 15 but went with the Sub 15 because it "dug deeper" for HT and has PBK. Hope to receive it next week and try it out at home.

[patricksf]

BrianK, how big is your room? Using the "merlin" tool on SVS's site, its interesting that they recommend dual SB13 Ultra's with the F208's. but only 1 with the F206. Not sure if they presume anyone buying an F208 has a much bigger space, or?.... My current room is 12x20 with 8 foot ceilings, so I figured between the F208's deeper ability and the SB13 Ultra, I should have enough air moving. Also, if I may be so crass, what kind of % off list did you get on your Performa3's?

[briank]

Mar 20, 2014 9:44:13 GMT -5 patricksf said:

BrianK, how big is your room? Using the "merlin" tool on SVS's site, its interesting that they recommend dual SB13 Ultra's with the F208's. but only 1 with the F206. Not sure if they presume anyone buying an F208 has a much bigger space, or?.... My current room is 12x20 with 8 foot ceilings, so I figured between the F208's deeper ability and the SB13 Ultra, I should have enough air moving. Also, if I may be so crass, what kind of % off list did you get on your Performa3's?

My room is 15 x 18 with 8 ft ceilings but it's open to the kitchen at one end. Counting the Kitchen it's about 3700 cubic ft. The SB13 was adequate for HT but I wanted more Drama and Impact. For example there is a scene in "Casino Royale" where the Dozer crashes through pipes and a building. This scene was a little uneventful with the SB13 and JL 112 while it was mildly "startling" with the Sub 15. Has I not heard the Sub15 I wouldn't have known I was missing anything. It just brings more of the Action into your room.

I bought my speakers from TJ at HiFi Buys in Nashville TN at a nice discount.