Headphones and UMC200 or FUSION 8100?

[bst]

Nearly 100% determined soon to spring for either a Fusion 8100 or a UMC200 + UPA700
to replace a not-so-inspired Sony receiver. But I have a headphone question
that will help with my planning if someone on the board can help.

In addition to driving a modest set of speakers (Klipsch Synergy F10, C10, S10)
I want to use headphones (both wired and wireless) either separately or at
the same time as the speakers. [One of us is hard of hearing and using headphones
and speakers at the same time is useful.]

The Fusion manual says that connecting a wired headphone will disable the speakers.
This is common for most receivers. Does the same happen to the UMC200? If not how
can one control the volume for both speakers and headphones?

For the wireless headphones I am assuming that a connection to the "mix out"
or Zone 2 or 3 will allow simultaneous listening to speakers and headphones.
Any guesses on whether the delay (echo) will be tolerable if room sound is somewhat
audible to the headphone wearer?

For the wired headphones will I be better off using the "mix out" and feeding that
to a headphone amplifier?

Any advice or suggestions (no matter how wild) will be much appreciated. Thanks.

[Lsc]

The UMC-200 and Fusion 8100 have very similar characteristics. When you plug the headphone in, the volume only goes to the headphones.

Not sure about wireless..

[garbulky]

Mar 12, 2014 12:21:31 GMT -5 bst said:

Nearly 100% determined soon to spring for either a Fusion 8100 or a UMC200 + UPA700
to replace a not-so-inspired Sony receiver. But I have a headphone question
that will help with my planning if someone on the board can help.

In addition to driving a modest set of speakers (Klipsch Synergy F10, C10, S10)
I want to use headphones (both wired and wireless) either separately or at
the same time as the speakers. [One of us is hard of hearing and using headphones
and speakers at the same time is useful.]

The Fusion manual says that connecting a wired headphone will disable the speakers.
This is common for most receivers. Does the same happen to the UMC200? If not how
can one control the volume for both speakers and headphones?

For the wireless headphones I am assuming that a connection to the "mix out"
or Zone 2 or 3 will allow simultaneous listening to speakers and headphones.
Any guesses on whether the delay (echo) will be tolerable if room sound is somewhat
audible to the headphone wearer?

For the wired headphones will I be better off using the "mix out" and feeding that
to a headphone amplifier?

Any advice or suggestions (no matter how wild) will be much appreciated. Thanks.

Oh boy. The simultaneous use of headphones and speakers will be your sticking point. It's not going to be easy.
If you can figure out how to get two simultaneous line outputs from the UMC-200 then using a dual headphone amp would be worth it.
My now discontinued Xenos 3HA can drive two headphones. But since one of your headphones is wireless, I don't know how the wireless headphones would react with a headphone amplifier. I.e. will the headphone amp overload the wireless reciever input.

[bst]

>>But since one of your headphones is wireless, I don't know how the wireless headphones would react with a headphone amplifier.
>>I.e. will the headphone amp overload the wireless reciever input.

For Sennheiser wireless headphones you just need a line out. The wireless base can take a low level input and doesn't seem to need amplification.
I can also plug it into the receiver headphone jack but would have to set the volume very very low or there is distortion.

So the question seems to be only this: can I get a line output from the UMV-200 that matches the same source as that going to the speakers? That can go directly to a wireless base or to a headphone amp. (If this is right what is an appropriate choice of headphone amp?)

Thanks so far for the two replies.

[garbulky]

Mar 12, 2014 16:55:43 GMT -5 bst said:

>>But since one of your headphones is wireless, I don't know how the wireless headphones would react with a headphone amplifier.
>>I.e. will the headphone amp overload the wireless reciever input.

For Sennheiser wireless headphones you just need a line out. The wireless base can take a low level input and doesn't seem to need amplification.
I can also plug it into the receiver headphone jack but would have to set the volume very very low or there is distortion.

So the question seems to be only this: can I get a line output from the UMV-200 that matches the same source as that going to the speakers? That can go directly to a wireless base or to a headphone amp. (If this is right what is an appropriate choice of headphone amp?)

Thanks so far for the two replies.

In case you don't know there are y adapters which will split the line level signal allowing you to power two devices at the same time. Very cheap. I'm not sure how that would translate for your application because it looks like you need three outputs but one of them needs to be connected to a headphone amplifier while the other two don't.
I'm not familiar with the UMC-200 but you say there is some sort of mix output on it that doubles as a second line out?
Okay. Basically forget the headphone amp output on the UMC-200.
Use the regular output for your front speakers.
Use the second output by splitting it using y adapters/cables/splitter.
Buy a cheap headphone amplifier ($70-100). Connect ONE of the splitted y cables to it and connect the wired headphone to it. Use the other pair of splitted y cables to the wireless headphone reciever.
There MUST be a more convenient way though....

[jlafrenz]

Depending on how your sources are connected (they would need to be analog) you could leverage the zone 2 output.

[KeithL]

The headphone jacks on all our equipment (and most everyone else's) do disable the main outputs.

Room echo is always an issue when mixing headphones and speakers - although that will depend on the size of the room. (The delay is about 1 mS per foot of distance, so if the speakers are 10 feet from the listening position, then the offset is about 10 mSec, which isn't that bad - so you may not find it annoying. It will depend on the relative loudness of what you hear from "inside" the headphones. As long as not too much of the speakers' sound bleeds through you should be fine. Generally this isn't a problem with "closed" phones, but might be with "open air" models.)

Every pair of wireless headphones I've ever seen has a line level input (the actual"headphone amp" for them is in the part you're wearing), and most have a separate volume control on the phones themselves, so you would want to connect them directly to the Mix or Zone output - there would be no reason to add a headphone amp for them.

Mar 12, 2014 16:39:56 GMT -5 garbulky said:

Mar 12, 2014 12:21:31 GMT -5 bst said:

Nearly 100% determined soon to spring for either a Fusion 8100 or a UMC200 + UPA700
to replace a not-so-inspired Sony receiver. But I have a headphone question
that will help with my planning if someone on the board can help.

In addition to driving a modest set of speakers (Klipsch Synergy F10, C10, S10)
I want to use headphones (both wired and wireless) either separately or at
the same time as the speakers. [One of us is hard of hearing and using headphones
and speakers at the same time is useful.]

The Fusion manual says that connecting a wired headphone will disable the speakers.
This is common for most receivers. Does the same happen to the UMC200? If not how
can one control the volume for both speakers and headphones?

For the wireless headphones I am assuming that a connection to the "mix out"
or Zone 2 or 3 will allow simultaneous listening to speakers and headphones.
Any guesses on whether the delay (echo) will be tolerable if room sound is somewhat
audible to the headphone wearer?

For the wired headphones will I be better off using the "mix out" and feeding that
to a headphone amplifier?

Any advice or suggestions (no matter how wild) will be much appreciated. Thanks.

Oh boy. The simultaneous use of headphones and speakers will be your sticking point. It's not going to be easy.
If you can figure out how to get two simultaneous line outputs from the UMC-200 then using a dual headphone amp would be worth it.
My now discontinued Xenos 3HA can drive two headphones. But since one of your headphones is wireless, I don't know how the wireless headphones would react with a headphone amplifier. I.e. will the headphone amp overload the wireless reciever input.

[garbulky]

Mar 13, 2014 10:36:28 GMT -5 KeithL said:

The headphone jacks on all our equipment (and most everyone else's) do disable the main outputs.

Room echo is always an issue when mixing headphones and speakers - although that will depend on the size of the room. (The delay is about 1 mS per foot of distance, so if the speakers are 10 feet from the listening position, then the offset is about 10 mSec, which isn't that bad - so you may not find it annoying. It will depend on the relative loudness of what you hear from "inside" the headphones. As long as not too much of the speakers' sound bleeds through you should be fine. Generally this isn't a problem with "closed" phones, but might be with "open air" models.)

Every pair of wireless headphones I've ever seen has a line level input (the actual"headphone amp" for them is in the part you're wearing), and most have a separate volume control on the phones themselves, so you would want to connect them directly to the Mix or Zone output - there would be no reason to add a headphone amp for them.

Mar 12, 2014 16:39:56 GMT -5 garbulky said:

Oh boy. The simultaneous use of headphones and speakers will be your sticking point. It's not going to be easy.
If you can figure out how to get two simultaneous line outputs from the UMC-200 then using a dual headphone amp would be worth it.
My now discontinued Xenos 3HA can drive two headphones. But since one of your headphones is wireless, I don't know how the wireless headphones would react with a headphone amplifier. I.e. will the headphone amp overload the wireless reciever input.

The headphone amp is for the wired headphones he has

[bst]

Thanks to all for answers.  The Mix or Zone output is apparently the right solution for the wireless headphones.  Likely with an
headphone amp it would work adequately for wired as well if necessary.

My worry was that the UMC200 might be as dumb as my Sony receiver about second zones.  It has a second zone which can only
handle analog sources and so can only output the same source as the speakers if the source is something like FM.

Is it safe to assume that the quality of sound coming out from the Mix or Zone outputs on the UMC200 is going to be heads and shoulders
above what most conventional receivers send out their headphone jack?