Flac to CD-R

[miata57]

Hi All

I copied a few flac recordings to a CD-R and the result was a disc with .cda extensions. The CD-R plays fine on my ERC-1.

Is this an acceptable way to burn flac to CD-R or should I be converting to .wav?

My DAC shows the rate as 44.1khz


Thanks in Advance

Howie

[cd]

What you are currently doing is correct, don't worry.

[daveburt]

Just curious.... What software did you use to burn the FLAC files to a CD?
Assuming it's a standard CD that will play on any player and not just a data disk...

Thanks,
Dave

[miata57]

I have tried a few..."CDBurnerXP", "Ashampoo Burning Studio" and "Burrrn"

Howie

[daveburt]

Thanks Howie...

I'll check those out (hopefully one of them are free (PD)).
I'm fairly new to the audiophile scene, and most of my music is in MP3.  With the new gear it's pretty obvious that's not the best choice...
I've recorded a few things in FLAC and I can definitely tell the difference during playback!  The file sizes are a lot bigger with FLAC, but my ears say it's worth it.
My biggest concern with that format was the ability to burn CD's playable on standard players...
You've given me hope Bro!

Thanks,
Dave

[KeithL]

Some CD burning software automatically converts various audio files to the proper format before burning it to an audio CD (sometimes you have to tell it to make "an audio CD" rather than "a data CD"). As long as it will play on an ERC, then it isn't a data CD and you're fine. FLAC is lossless, and so is "interchangeable" with WAV in terms of "content" - so as long as the program does the conversion before writing to the CD you're just fine.

Just to clarify things for other folks who may be reading this... Some writer programs WILL convert ANY format of audio file and write it to an audio CD automatically. If the original is in a lossless file format, like FLAC, then the resulting CD will be a "bit perfect" copy of the original - or pretty darned close. (Sometimes, when you RIP a CD to separate tracks, then put those tracks back onto a new CD, the spacing between tracks is altered. This can be an issue for certain classical tracks, and for Dark Side of the Moon, where you specifically want NO gaps between tracks. The most reliable - and easiest - way to avoid this is to save an ISO image of the entire CD.... assuming you own the original  . )

HOWEVER, if the original is in a lossy format, like MP3 or AAC, they will also convert it to standard format and write a perfectly normal-looking audio CD - which, unfortunately, still has the inferior audio quality of the "original" lossy file (iTunes does this).

NOTE: ONCE A FILE IS CONVERTED TO A LOSSY FORMAT LIKE MP3 OR AAC, THERE IS *NOTHING* THAT CAN BE DONE TO GET THE LOST QUALITY BACK.

Even worse, if you then RIP that CD you just wrote to a FLAC or CD image, you will have a very nice quality lossless copy of a very poor quality lossy original (but it will "look" just like a "real" lossless CD RIP). This is why some downloads (and some CDs) don't sound as good as they should, and why you should be very careful ripping CD-R's unless you know their provenance.

If you want a nice, FREE, image copying and burning program, check out this one:

www.imgburn.com/

It can also do lots of other stuff, and works very well, but can get a bit complicated. Be careful to download and install IMGBURN and not some of the other advert-ware crap on the site (that's life).

[daveburt]

Thanks KeithL...

I've been using Imgburn for a few years now and it's definitely a nice piece of freeware! 
I can see where it would be capable of ripping a bit-perfect CD image, but that would result in large file sizes.
Your right about it being a little complicated. Up to this point I've only used it for video, but I'll try delving a little deeper.
Pretty sure it doesn't do encoding conversions, but I've been wrong before and up to this point I've only used it for limited/simple video tasks.

Your explanation about converting lossy formats to lossless makes perfect sense though! 
Converting an MP3 to FLAC would only give you a bigger file size, not better quality...

This is an interesting topic (to me anyway), so I'm going to start a new thread so we don't step on the OP's!
You seem very knowledgeable on this subject...

Hope you'll offer some incite!
Dave

[geebo]

+1 on Imgburn. Audiogate if free and only requires a Twitter account and can convert DSD files as well.

[KeithL]

Thanks.

In Imgburn, storing an ISO is actually super simple - just use disc->image to store it and image->disc to burn it. That gives you a perfect backup that not only stores the audio perfectly, but preserves odd (or zero) track spacing, extra content, and all the rest. A standard one hour CD should be about 700 mB. It's a very handy way to back up a whole disc, or to send one to someone (and space is pretty cheap these days).

The one part about conversions that can be sinister is that, once a conversion is made, it can be very difficult to tell much about the source. For example, iTunes offers an option to "burn music to CD" that gives you a nice normal audio CD - and they don't go out of the way to warn you if you're using compressed AAC files as your source. The resulting CD "looks" just like a full-quality CD. Since a lot of people who RIP and share aren't especially well informed, there's a good chance that someone will end up ripping that "CD" into FLACs - so now you'll have "un-FLACs". that look normal but don't sound all that good. There are even programs out there that can analyze a lossless file and make a good guess as to whether the source was really lossy (they analyze unique high-frequency content and other stuff that tends to be altered in a predictable fashion by compression); they can't tell for sure, but they do give you a "% probability" that your file was diddled with. (I think one is called "Tau... something or other...")

dBPowerAmp also has a really useful sounding new app called PerfectTunes, which verifies checksums with the AccurateRIP database. But, unlike most rippers, you can also use it to confirm music that you didn't just RIP.... all AccurateRIP does is confirm that what you have is a bit-perfect replica of the original - it doesn't "care" if you ripped it, or downloaded it as a FLAC and converted it back again. So now, with PerfectTunes, you can use the AccurareRIP database to confirm that your saved music - and downloads - are perfect in every way (and are what they claim to be).

Apr 9, 2014 1:01:28 GMT -5 daveburt said:

Thanks KeithL...

I've been using Imgburn for a few years now and it's definitely a nice piece of freeware! 
I can see where it would be capable of ripping a bit-perfect CD image, but that would result in large file sizes.
Your right about it being a little complicated. Up to this point I've only used it for video, but I'll try delving a little deeper.
Pretty sure it doesn't do encoding conversions, but I've been wrong before and up to this point I've only used it for limited/simple video tasks.

Your explanation about converting lossy formats to lossless makes perfect sense though! 
Converting an MP3 to FLAC would only give you a bigger file size, not better quality...

This is an interesting topic (to me anyway), so I'm going to start a new thread so we don't step on the OP's!
You seem very knowledgeable on this subject...

Hope you'll offer some incite!
Dave

[KeithL]

FooBar2000 can also play SACD ISO files directly. It will convert them to PCM on-the-fly to play on a regular PCM DAC, or send them out as unconverted DSD-over-PCM (if your USB DAC supports it). It can also convert an SACD ISO to individual PCM files and save them. (You will need the SACD plugin for FooBar - which is also free - to play them, and possibly other stuff to output them directly.) I've heard that jRiver may also be able to do this.

And a note to SACD fans:

About the only way you can create an ISO RIP of an SACD is using an (illegally) modified PlayStation (you can Google for details about that - it's a major project). You do, however, find quite a few of them available from the same places where other (illegal bootleg) downloads are to be found . Older Oppo players USED TO be able to play these SACD ISO files directly - but that functionality was "pulled" a while ago in a firmware update. HOWEVER, if you... find... an SACD ISO file, you can play it with FooBar or jRiver, or you can burn it to an ordinary DVD-R blank (you can't open an SACD ISO in a normal ISO editor, but normal burner programs will burn it). The result, while not physically identical to an SACD disc, WILL play on MANY SACD players just like a "real" one - including on most modern Oppos. (The actual DSD music portion should be identical to the original "real" SACD; it's some stuff in the physical format that's slightly different - which is why SOME SACD players won't play it.)

Also note that the process of converting an SACD ISO (or DSD music files) to PCM does involve digital filtering and level adjustment. In fact, converting between DSD and PCM in either direction is NOT a purely lossless process. The result is that conversions done - in either direction - with different software, or even with different options set on a given converter, will probably sound VERY SLIGHTLY different - both from the original and from each other. (I've heard samples of the same DSD original converted to 24/96 PCM by Audiogate and Weiss Saracon - which are arguably THE top two commercial converters. Both sounded VERY good, but they were subtly different. I can't say I preferred one over the other but, if you listened closely, you could definitely hear a slight difference.)

Apr 9, 2014 7:22:54 GMT -5 geebo said:

+1 on Imgburn. Audiogate if free and only requires a Twitter account and can convert DSD files as well.