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Post by GreenKiwi on Jun 4, 2014 13:57:35 GMT -5
I think that the library function on JRMC is second to none.
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Post by GreenKiwi on Jun 4, 2014 13:58:18 GMT -5
Oh, and JRemote is one of the best remote apps (iOS) for any app.
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Post by sahmen on Jun 4, 2014 15:51:34 GMT -5
Is the Mac version of JRiver now entirely bug-free? And how does it stack up against the regular Mac compatible audio players (Audirvana plus, Fidelia, Amarra, et. etc. etc.)? If anyone can provide some useful and up-to-date info on this, it would be swell.
On the other hand, I have Parallels on both my Macbook pro and Mac mini, so I am wondering whether it would be a great idea to run JRiver for windows on my macs, using parallels? Any advantages or disadvantages in that?
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Post by dac0964 on Jun 4, 2014 16:33:29 GMT -5
Sharky, How is the JRiver performing so far? I tried it first cause I'm using it on my HP/Windows notebook. But i experienced weird things, like- 1). Some music track will play on the main speaker, other tracks will play on the notebook's speaker. 2). Or, the DC-1 will show a track is 96Khz, then when I play the same track again after a few minutes it will show a different sampling rate (e.g. 88.2 or 192). Thus i' m reasearching other music software and trying out Audirvana. JRiver is performing quite alright. Version 18 (the first one available for Mac) was very buggy. Version 19 made great progresses with each new release and is pretty stable now, can't remember the last time it crashed. The only way to make it lose the speaker definitions and reverting back to the laptop speakers is by running JRiver when another player that has exclusive access to the DC-1 is already running. But then again every software that uses exclusive access will behave strangely if you try to run 2 of them simultaneously. I like Audirvana a lot (still have the free version installed), like I said the main reason for going with JRiver instead of Audirvana was the library function, where I have all the albums with cover art, all the artists, can browse by tags or by folder, perform searches, etc. Never had any mismatch with the samplerate between JRiver and the DC-1. I have set the preferences of JRiver to not mess with any sample rate and always pass the source directly to the DC-1. If you incur in that situation where you run 2 "exclusive access" player at the same time these up/downsampling definition might become garbled as well and you have to set them right again. Apart from that, all good. If you don't have use for a library function and remote control via app then you'll be perfectly well served with Audirvana, Fidelia, Amarra, Pure Music, Decibel, BitPerfect or any other quality player. I wanted JRiver to work so much for all the same reasons you have. I still am using Audirvana's trial version. Maybe I'll try re-installing JRiver again this weekend and see if I'll have the same issues. I may have misconfigured it before. |
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Post by sharky on Jun 4, 2014 16:45:44 GMT -5
I wanted JRiver to work so much for all the same reasons you have. I still am using Audirvana's trial version. Maybe I'll try re-installing JRiver again this weekend and see if I'll have the same issues. I may have misconfigured it before. There's always a sticky thread on top of the Mac forum at JRiver with a link for the latest version. yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=36.0Give it a spin, see if you still have any problems. For me it's pretty much stable. |
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Post by sharky on Jun 4, 2014 17:11:24 GMT -5
Is the Mac version of JRiver now entirely bug-free? And how does it stack up against the regular Mac compatible audio players (Audirvana plus, Fidelia, Amarra, et. etc. etc.)? If anyone can provide some useful and up-to-date info on this, it would be swell. On the other hand, I have Parallels on both my Macbook pro and Mac mini, so I am wondering whether it would be a great idea to run JRiver for windows on my macs, using parallels? Any advantages or disadvantages in that? I wouldn't say entirely bug-free, no. But the bugs that exist are minor and don't really affect your music enjoyment. There are documented incompatibilities under certain conditions with a few DACs (no problems with the DC-1). Still a few cosmetic bugs when you drag the window for a second screen/monitor and some menus don't refresh correctly, same as if you right-click on a track on the second screen the context menu will always appear in the first (primary) screen. If you try to delete a file that is currently playing on a playlist. If you rename a SACD ISO you have to refresh your library manually as it will fail to refresh automatically for that specific kind of file. None of those bugs matter to me, so I can fully enjoy the software. It is not bug-free though, which was your question. How does it stack? Well, my main concern was sound quality. From the moment that I couldn't find any sound difference between the "audiophile" players I went for the cheapest one that gave me all the features I wanted, in this case JRiver because of the library and remote app (It's also a DLNA renderer and server). What I don't like on JRiver is their business model, where you have to pay for upgrades between major versions (i.e. 19 to 20). Unless they add something to 20 on the sound quality or any feature I really think it's worth the price I'll stick with 19. That's why you have so many windows users in previous versions. (18 to 19 in Mac was an exception they made since 18 was so buggy it was almost unusable and they knew it) Other people will tell you they can hear differences between the several players and will give you their reasons for preferring player A or B. Since all of them have trial periods you can try them for yourself and see if you have any preference as well. Running under parallels or other virtualization system, I'd recommend against it. Software running on a VM is accessing the virtualization layer, provided by the hypervisor (VM;Ware, Parallels, Oracle VirtualBox, Citrix,...) and not the hardware directly. This means the data passes through a software layer first that the processes it and redirects it to the appropriate hardware, while at the same time fooling the original software telling it it's the hardware. This takes processing power, if your computer is doing other stuff at the same time you might get a few hiccups there. I would definitely recommend running the player in the Operating System that has direct access to the hardware. (It's actually not so simple and there are cases where you can "patch" a direct connection from the OS in the VM to a device, specially if it's a USB device, but the recommendation stands) |
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Post by audiosyndrome on Jun 4, 2014 17:28:17 GMT -5
FWIW, PS audio recommends BitPerfect for use with Macs. Hi Bill- PS Audio is going direct from their mini to their new DAC. I'm using home sharing; ethernet cable from my router to Apple TV, optical out to UMC-1. BitPerfect, unfortunately, does not support home sharing. So I looked at Pure Music. It does and it does not support home sharing; don't understand their explanation for home sharing. I wonder if any of the other programs mentioned in this thread support home sharing?  This is a deal breaker for me.  Russ |
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Post by GreenKiwi on Jun 4, 2014 17:32:20 GMT -5
Note, that you only pay and "upgrade" price, not full price between versions... but still, it bites a bit, particularly with Mac 18 --> 19. I think that should have been included with Mac18, as it was very buggy, even in its "final" release. As for sound quality... it's been tested to be bit perfect output and a DAC like the DC-1 with ASRC should sort out any jitter issues that might happen. www.computeraudiophile.com/content/513-jriver-mac-vs-jriver-windows-sound-quality-comparison/If you think that it needs to be better than that, well, that discussion can be held elsewhere =D |
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Post by sahmen on Jun 4, 2014 17:33:09 GMT -5
Is the Mac version of JRiver now entirely bug-free? And how does it stack up against the regular Mac compatible audio players (Audirvana plus, Fidelia, Amarra, et. etc. etc.)? If anyone can provide some useful and up-to-date info on this, it would be swell. On the other hand, I have Parallels on both my Macbook pro and Mac mini, so I am wondering whether it would be a great idea to run JRiver for windows on my macs, using parallels? Any advantages or disadvantages in that? I wouldn't say entirely bug-free, no. But the bugs that exist are minor and don't really affect your music enjoyment. There are documented incompatibilities under certain conditions with a few DACs (no problems with the DC-1). Still a few cosmetic bugs when you drag the window for a second screen/monitor and some menus don't refresh correctly, same as if you right-click on a track on the second screen the context menu will always appear in the first (primary) screen. If you try to delete a file that is currently playing on a playlist. If you rename a SACD ISO you have to refresh your library manually as it will fail to refresh automatically for that specific kind of file. None of those bugs matter to me, so I can fully enjoy the software. It is not bug-free though, which was your question. How does it stack? Well, my main concern was sound quality. From the moment that I couldn't find any sound difference between the "audiophile" players I went for the cheapest one that gave me all the features I wanted, in this case JRiver because of the library and remote app (It's also a DLNA renderer and server). What I don't like on JRiver is their business model, where you have to pay for upgrades between major versions (i.e. 19 to 20). Unless they add something to 20 on the sound quality or any feature I really think it's worth the price I'll stick with 19. That's why you have so many windows users in previous versions. (18 to 19 in Mac was an exception they made since 18 was so buggy it was almost unusable and they knew it) Other people will tell you they can hear differences between the several players and will give you their reasons for preferring player A or B. Since all of them have trial periods you can try them for yourself and see if you have any preference as well. Running under parallels or other virtualization system, I'd recommend against it. Software running on a VM is accessing the virtualization layer, provided by the hypervisor (VM;Ware, Parallels, Oracle VirtualBox, Citrix,...) and not the hardware directly. This means the data passes through a software layer first that the processes it and redirects it to the appropriate hardware, while at the same time fooling the original software telling it it's the hardware. This takes processing power, if your computer is doing other stuff at the same time you might get a few hiccups there. I would definitely recommend running the player in the Operating System that has direct access to the hardware. (It's actually not so simple and there are cases where you can "patch" a direct connection from the OS in the VM to a device, specially if it's a USB device, but the recommendation stands) Sharky: This is very informative and helpful... Thanks. One more question: Does JRiver have any feature that is meant for enhancing and optimizing music for headphones, like "Fidelia FHX" seems to do (if I have understood my research correctly), that is, if you're aware of that Fidelia FHX addon? |
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Post by GreenKiwi on Jun 4, 2014 19:27:32 GMT -5
From experience, if you are using airplay you want to just use itunes. It works and integrates the best... And you don't get any benefits from enhanced bit rates or bit perfect playback.
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Post by sahmen on Jun 4, 2014 21:18:07 GMT -5
From experience, if you are using airplay you want to just use itunes. It works and integrates the best... And you don't get any benefits from enhanced bit rates or bit perfect playback. Green: This is actually enlightening, since I was test-driving Audirvana plus by having it play from my MBP via i-tunes/Airplay ==> Apple tv==> DC=1 ==> Pre-1 ==>XPA-5... And the weird thing is that I thought I was hearing some difference...  (You got to love them placebo effects) From what you're saying, it would seem the testing is best done via mac mini, which can be connected directly to the DC-1 via USB, thus bypassing Airplay... I could also connect the MBP directly to the DC-1 that way, but that is clearly not an ideal solution, since I cannot afford to have the MBP tethered and confined for too long to my rig... I am also understanding that the headphone optimization function à la fidelia FHX would work only if there is no Airplay functionality in the chain... All this is good to know. Thanks. |
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Post by GreenKiwi on Jun 5, 2014 0:19:29 GMT -5
sahmen I'd definitely just go with iTunes directly for any AirPlay. The whole network process is going to change any timing and sync issues that the other apps hoped to avoid. The iTunes Remote app is free on iPhone/iPad and works quite well. And it's definitely has a very high WAF. A couple things to note, the aTV only plays back at 48KHz, so it resamples CD quality 44.1KHz data up to 48KHz. (The AirPort Express does 44.1) I don't think that this is an issue for all but critical listening. For critical listening, I'd go with USB direct from a computer. But then at least in our house, most of the time the listening is for good music and not sitting down to be critical of it. For my own approach, I have a mini, feeding the DC-1 via USB... but am moving to either an Olive ONE or Sonos. My olive one is supposed to ship the 9th or 16th. And I'll be purchasing a sonos system and tying both for 30 days to see which one has the best usability.
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Post by dac0964 on Jun 5, 2014 0:50:18 GMT -5
I wouldn't say entirely bug-free, no. But the bugs that exist are minor and don't really affect your music enjoyment. There are documented incompatibilities under certain conditions with a few DACs (no problems with the DC-1). Still a few cosmetic bugs when you drag the window for a second screen/monitor and some menus don't refresh correctly, same as if you right-click on a track on the second screen the context menu will always appear in the first (primary) screen. If you try to delete a file that is currently playing on a playlist. If you rename a SACD ISO you have to refresh your library manually as it will fail to refresh automatically for that specific kind of file. None of those bugs matter to me, so I can fully enjoy the software. It is not bug-free though, which was your question. As the guy in the radio commercial would say... "I just hate bugs." Unlike you, I wouldn't be able to live with those cosmetic bugs... but good for you if you can. So I might stick it out with Audirvana and revisit JRiver at a future (stable) time. Thanks for sharing your experience though. |
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Post by sharky on Jun 5, 2014 14:20:03 GMT -5
Does JRiver have any feature that is meant for enhancing and optimizing music for headphones, like "Fidelia FHX" seems to do (if I have understood my research correctly), that is, if you're aware of that Fidelia FHX addon? It does have Headphone Mode, with different selectable modes of crossfeed. But nothing as advanced as FHX Headphone Processor, no. |
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Post by sharky on Jun 5, 2014 14:21:51 GMT -5
My olive one is supposed to ship the 9th or 16th. REVIEW!!!  |
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Post by sahmen on Jun 5, 2014 14:38:15 GMT -5
sahmen I'd definitely just go with iTunes directly for any AirPlay. The whole network process is going to change any timing and sync issues that the other apps hoped to avoid. The iTunes Remote app is free on iPhone/iPad and works quite well. And it's definitely has a very high WAF. A couple things to note, the aTV only plays back at 48KHz, so it resamples CD quality 44.1KHz data up to 48KHz. (The AirPort Express does 44.1) I don't think that this is an issue for all but critical listening. For critical listening, I'd go with USB direct from a computer. But then at least in our house, most of the time the listening is for good music and not sitting down to be critical of it. For my own approach, I have a mini, feeding the DC-1 via USB... but am moving to either an Olive ONE or Sonos. My olive one is supposed to ship the 9th or 16th. And I'll be purchasing a sonos system and tying both for 30 days to see which one has the best usability. Green: Cool! Would love to know what you think about Olive ONE and Sonos, in terms of "usability," "flexibility," and sq.. |
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Post by GreenKiwi on Jun 5, 2014 16:35:31 GMT -5
I'll start a whole thread... as soon as I have it. Can't wait for it to ship... it has been a very long time in the making. I plan on getting both and I'll write up a review as I go through the process with both.
I imagine that the Sonos will be a lot easier to use, as it is very much a finished product. While the ONE still has some rough edges, like they just allowed for simultaneous analog and digital out. And it doesn't allow for volume control of digital output. But it will have the files locally, so it has that going for it. We'll see what the final outcome is... and which one the most important person in the house thinks we should go with.
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Post by GreenKiwi on Jun 5, 2014 16:37:37 GMT -5
I will say that having lived with the mini as a music server for a year or so now, that I am definitely going with a dedicated music device, rather than a computer. It's too tempting to do other things with it... particularly if other people in your family want to use it.
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Post by isaacc7 on Jun 5, 2014 18:45:57 GMT -5
I've been trying out jriver. Man is it ugly! Luckily I probably won't mess around with it too much as I'll use the jremote app on my iPhone or iPad. I'm having some odd behavior with it if there are airplay devices on my network. Midi setup thinks it is using airplay and it locks the maximum output frequency. I have noticed conflicts between jriver and iTunes. If I have jriver running, I can't get any sound out of iTunes. Might have something to do with that airplay stickiness. Weird...
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Post by GreenKiwi on Jun 5, 2014 18:47:29 GMT -5
I think that it has to do with the exclusive access mode that JRiver uses by default for talking with sound output devices.
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This is a deal breaker for me. 
(You got to love them placebo effects)
