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Post by srrndhound on Jul 23, 2014 23:34:02 GMT -5
But this only works if the ceiling is at least half the room width + ear height. So if the room width is 5 m, the ceiling should be 5/2 (=2,5) + 1 = 3,5 m. No need to worry about absolute ceiling height or room ratios. What's important is the angle of incidence to the listener. A small room of any proportions can work. The main advantage to a larger/taller room is the sweet spot gets larger. It will also help if the speakers can direct their sound toward the listeners. In my case, the small room dictated I use speakers that can pivot and swivel, which also allows for adjustment even after they are mounted.  |
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Post by wizardofoz on Jul 24, 2014 1:59:37 GMT -5
So aside from the beds and objects and channels and speakers issues...let me see if I have the straight...
In order for Atmos to place these things in the right place with some XYZ coordinates/ratios etc the room size has to be known and reflections mapped into some array/model for Atmos to process the placements to said available speakers/channels in order to manage the sound source location in a given environment.
So given this understanding then does this have to be done prior to or subsequent to Dirac (or other room correction variants) or in conjunction with?
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Post by srrndhound on Jul 24, 2014 2:28:40 GMT -5
So aside from the beds and objects and channels and speakers issues...let me see if I have the straight... In order for Atmos to place these things in the right place with some XYZ coordinates/ratios etc the room size has to be known and reflections mapped into some array/model for Atmos to process the placements to said available speakers/channels in order to manage the sound source location in a given environment. No. Atmos does not care about the size of the room. Not sure what you mean by reflections. Do you mean reverb? If so, no, Atmos does not know reverb from dialog as far as how it's presented spatially. Dirac, like any other EQ, is done as the last thing in the processing chain, regardless of whether the source is 2-ch stereo or 11.1++ Atmos. Nothing changes there. |
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Erwin.BE
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Post by Erwin.BE on Jul 24, 2014 13:29:29 GMT -5
But this only works if the ceiling is at least half the room width + ear height. So if the room width is 5 m, the ceiling should be 5/2 (=2,5) + 1 = 3,5 m. No need to worry about absolute ceiling height or room ratios. What's important is the angle of incidence to the listener. A small room of any proportions can work. The main advantage to a larger/taller room is the sweet spot gets larger. It will also help if the speakers can direct their sound toward the listeners. In my case, the small room dictated I use speakers that can pivot and swivel, which also allows for adjustment even after they are mounted. And still, my ceiling height is normal, about 8ft6in, but the room is very wide (22ft) and I want to use a 14ft wide listening area. My FR & FL are also 14ft apart, hence I thpught to put the Tops also 14 ft apart. I estimate the elevation to be only like 30-35 degrees this way. Otherwise, the Tops would be more to the center than the seats most to the sides... What would be more important? MLP or the whole area? Alternatively, defining a more narrow "main" listening area, say 8ft would solve the issue. Tops 10ft apart perhaps? BTW, I will DIY these with the Volt coaxials in a slanted sealed cabinet. |
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Post by srrndhound on Jul 24, 2014 22:41:49 GMT -5
And still, my ceiling height is normal, about 8ft6in, but the room is very wide (22ft) and I want to use a 14ft wide listening area. My FR & FL are also 14ft apart, hence I thought to put the Tops also 14 ft apart. I estimate the elevation to be only like 30-35 degrees this way. Otherwise, the Tops would be more to the center than the seats most to the sides... What would be more important? MLP or the whole area? Alternatively, defining a more narrow "main" listening area, say 8ft would solve the issue. Tops 10ft apart perhaps? Yes, I now see what your are talking about wrt to the room ratio. The solution to focus on the MLP area is the best one to ensure at least somebody hears the correct effect. The alternative is the that everyone hears some sort of height effect, but not really optimal for anyone. Another thought might be to have a central cluster of 4 height speakers positioned optimally for the MLP, then a second set of 2 or 4 that are mounted in a larger pattern to cover the 14' zone. These would play in parallel with the central set, but only when a larger audience exceeds the MLP zone. I like your decision.  |
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Erwin.BE
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Post by Erwin.BE on Jul 25, 2014 2:06:59 GMT -5
Thanks for the useful tips, very learning!
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Post by cwmcobra on Jul 25, 2014 7:53:21 GMT -5
BTW, I will DIY these with the Volt coaxials in a slanted sealed cabinet. Interesting that you are planning to build the Volt coaxials for the in-ceiling speakers. I'm looking at them as well. Are you going with the 8" or 10" woofer? I've been trying to find information on a speaker that will timbre match reasonably well with my Klipsch La Scalas and Heresys, but haven't gotten much useful info, even from Klipsch. What's this group's take on how critical the timbre match will be for Atmos ceiling speakers? BTW, I've emailed this question to Erich at the DIY Sound Group as well and await his response. Cheers! Chuck |
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Post by srrndhound on Jul 25, 2014 13:12:52 GMT -5
^^ Chuck, you have a "quote" error. Your reply is quoted by you.
Anyway, the timbre matching should be to the same standards you use for your surrounds. And if you will use one of the new Denon AVR's or the Marantz AV7702 processor (my choice for the first outing), their XT32 will do the job matching all the speakers.
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Erwin.BE
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Post by Erwin.BE on Jul 25, 2014 15:29:03 GMT -5
Volt 10".
OT, but I am now working on a trio of SEOS-24 with coaxial CD mid+tweeter combined with two 18" woofers each in MTM configuration for LCR. Overkill, but I want the best 2-channel I can build and afford. The Surrounds would be the new version of the SEOS-15 with the single 15" woofer. All with the help of DIY Soundgroup ofcourse...
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Erwin.BE
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Post by Erwin.BE on Jul 29, 2014 7:52:54 GMT -5
 Here's the 7.2.4 Atmos scheme I will be implementing in our HT. Note that the side surrounds are more to the front @ +/-75° since this is how Floyd Toole suggests it, based on the ITU layout for 7.1. No Wide speakers are not needed this way IMO, a handsome saving. Placement of Rear Surrounds is uncritical. |
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kse
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Post by kse on Jul 29, 2014 10:00:15 GMT -5
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Post by ludi on Jul 31, 2014 14:10:37 GMT -5
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Post by jmilton on Jul 31, 2014 14:21:30 GMT -5
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Erwin.BE
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Post by Erwin.BE on Jul 31, 2014 15:57:49 GMT -5
Attachment DeletedHere's a white paper for how to implement Atmos in a commercial theater.
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Post by Gary Cook on Jul 31, 2014 18:21:03 GMT -5
Wow, there's bit of BS in that FAQ but at least they are getting the naming conventions understandable eg; "tracks" (in lieu of "objects") makes much more sense. Cheers Gary |
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Post by Gary Cook on Jul 31, 2014 18:31:59 GMT -5
They still don't understand what the consumer understands "channels" to be and they dumb it down so much that it's factually incorrect. Plus there's the usual dose of sales BS and self contradiction. Cheers Gary |
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Post by Gary Cook on Jul 31, 2014 18:38:46 GMT -5
View AttachmentHere's the 7.2.4 Atmos scheme I will be implementing in our HT. Note that the side surrounds are more to the front @ +/-75° since this is how Floyd Toole suggests it, based on the ITU layout for 7.1. No Wide speakers are not needed this way IMO, a handsome saving. Placement of Rear Surrounds is uncritical. Sorry can't resist..........but my room isn't round, my chair is against the back wall and my cathedral ceilings aren't parallel to the floor.  Cheers Gary |
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Erwin.BE
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Post by Erwin.BE on Aug 1, 2014 11:38:59 GMT -5
View AttachmentHere's the 7.2.4 Atmos scheme I will be implementing in our HT. Note that the side surrounds are more to the front @ +/-75° since this is how Floyd Toole suggests it, based on the ITU layout for 7.1. No Wide speakers are not needed this way IMO, a handsome saving. Placement of Rear Surrounds is uncritical. Sorry can't resist..........but my room isn't round, my chair is against the back wall and my cathedral ceilings aren't parallel to the floor. Cheers Gary It's a scheme, not a real floor plan... I will post the latest floor plan later. I made sure the side surrounds can move back to +/- 90-100° when a 13 channel processor would allow the adding of "wides" @ +/- 60°. But I dare you to come up with a more effective scheme with only 7 "ground" speakers... |
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Post by bluemeanies on Aug 3, 2014 12:16:44 GMT -5
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Erwin.BE
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Post by Erwin.BE on Aug 3, 2014 18:08:18 GMT -5
Those guys are hilarious. Would they know that themselves?
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