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Post by Gary Cook on Jun 7, 2018 16:08:09 GMT -5
I would debate the "handful" number, more like "multiple handfuls" and growing daily. But what about discs that aren't labelled 7.1.4 but when we play them they are in fact 7.1.4? Does "new norm" refer to only discs labelled 7.1.4 or discs that play back 7.1.4 (even though they aren't labelled 7.1.4)? At the risk of being repetitive, the question I asked weeks ago, does anyone have a disk that actually plays back 9.1.6 (or more)? That's without up mixing, extrapolation or matrixing of course. Like I said. I have OVER 100 atmos discs and only those that were distributed by Disney SAY 7.1.4 on them. And there is NO objective way to tell if it is >7.1.4. It’s a guessing game Not in my case, the Storm displayed what it was receiving on the PC connected to it via Ethernet. If it was getting input for 6 ceiling speakers it displayed it, if it was getting input for wides it displayed it. As part of the test we turned off everything but the front wides, so we didn't have to stick our ears up to the speakers, plus we only had to monitor those 2 speakers on the PC screen, no sound input = no sound output. There is a lot of concentration on those discs specifically labelled "Dolby Atmos 7.1.4" but we found quite a number that weren't labelled 7.1.4 that were in fact 7.1.4 when played (refer previous posts). So personally going forward I'm not relying on a label to determine whether a disc is 7.1.4, if it just says "Dolby Atmos' then I'm not going to believe it until I hear it with my own ears. With the Storm we could use up mixers to create sounds from the 2 ceilings and 2 wides (that were otherwise silent) but, as recently announced, Dolby is preventing that facility from 3rd party up mixers going forward. Cheers Gary |
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Post by rbk123 on Jun 7, 2018 16:10:01 GMT -5
I think that in a true Atmos playback nothing should be encoded for 7.1.4. Atmos should be encoded for a 7.1 bed and then objects for the rest of your layout. It should spread out your objects to all of your 9.1.6 speakers (or what ever actual speaker layout you have) if it is a true Atmos encoding. If it is a 7.1.4 encoding (meaning no more XYZ data, just discrete 7.1.4 channels) , then it really isn't Atmos since the .4 channels should be objects not dedicated channels. It would not surprise me if somehow along the way Atmos has just turned into a 7.1.4 format (similar to DD 5.1, 7.1 etc) so it is easier to engineer and process in the HT enviorment. Agree, but your statement depends on whether camp A or camp B (in Bonzo's original summary post) is correct. In your case it assumes Camp A is the correct understanding, and you could very well be right. |
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Post by musicfan on Jun 7, 2018 17:13:50 GMT -5
Like I said. I have OVER 100 atmos discs and only those that were distributed by Disney SAY 7.1.4 on them. And there is NO objective way to tell if it is >7.1.4. It’s a guessing game Not in my case, the Storm displayed what it was receiving on the PC connected to it via Ethernet. If it was getting input for 6 ceiling speakers it displayed it, if it was getting input for wides it displayed it. As part of the test we turned off everything but the front wides, so we didn't have to stick our ears up to the speakers, plus we only had to monitor those 2 speakers on the PC screen, no sound input = no sound output. There is a lot of concentration on those discs specifically labelled "Dolby Atmos 7.1.4" but we found quite a number that weren't labelled 7.1.4 that were in fact 7.1.4 when played (refer previous posts). So personally going forward I'm not relying on a label to determine whether a disc is 7.1.4, if it just says "Dolby Atmos' then I'm not going to believe it until I hear it with my own ears. With the Storm we could use up mixers to create sounds from the 2 ceilings and 2 wides (that were otherwise silent) but, as recently announced, Dolby is preventing that facility from 3rd party up mixers going forward. Cheers Gary Your list was extremely small most of which was made up of the ones lbeled 7.1.4. I am not painting all atmos one way or another based on your tiny sample. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Jun 7, 2018 17:59:28 GMT -5
Not in my case, the Storm displayed what it was receiving on the PC connected to it via Ethernet. If it was getting input for 6 ceiling speakers it displayed it, if it was getting input for wides it displayed it. As part of the test we turned off everything but the front wides, so we didn't have to stick our ears up to the speakers, plus we only had to monitor those 2 speakers on the PC screen, no sound input = no sound output. There is a lot of concentration on those discs specifically labelled "Dolby Atmos 7.1.4" but we found quite a number that weren't labelled 7.1.4 that were in fact 7.1.4 when played (refer previous posts). So personally going forward I'm not relying on a label to determine whether a disc is 7.1.4, if it just says "Dolby Atmos' then I'm not going to believe it until I hear it with my own ears. With the Storm we could use up mixers to create sounds from the 2 ceilings and 2 wides (that were otherwise silent) but, as recently announced, Dolby is preventing that facility from 3rd party up mixers going forward. Your list was extremely small most of which was made up of the ones lbeled 7.1.4. I am not painting all atmos one way or another based on your tiny sample. I guess it depends on ones definition of "extremely small", I think we are up to 20 so far; The Last Jedi which is labelled Dolby Atmos 7.1.4 Blade Runner 2049 which is labelled Dolby Atmos 7.1.4 Wonder Woman which is labelled Dolby Atmos and Dolby TrueHD 7.1 Justice League which is labelled Dolby Atmos and Dolby TrueHD 7.1 + DTSHD MA 5.1 Thor Ragnarok - Dolby Atmos 7.1.4 Guardians of the Galaxy 2 - Dolby Atmos 7.1.4 Jurassic Park (1993) The Lost World: Jurassic Park (1997) Jurassic Park III (2001) Jurassic World (2015) Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (2018) The Matrix The Matrix Reloaded The Matrix Revolutions Suicide Squad Logan Captain America Civil War Avengers Age of Ultron Queued up are; Black Panther Greatest Showman Darkest Hour There's a couple of race cars to prepare so I won't get any done this weekend. Cheers Gary |
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Post by musicfan on Jun 7, 2018 18:57:44 GMT -5
Yes 20 movies is extremely small.
There are 624 Blu-ray with atmos sound.
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Post by Gary Cook on Jun 7, 2018 19:54:22 GMT -5
Yes 20 movies is extremely small. There are 624 Blu-ray with atmos sound. Super, how many have you found with 9.1.6 or greater? Because I'm batting a zero, I haven't found one yet, must just be my taste in movies (that I like to own and watch more than once). Cheers Gary |
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Post by adaboy on Jun 7, 2018 19:59:12 GMT -5
Yes 20 movies is extremely small. There are 624 Blu-ray with atmos sound. Super, how many have you found with 9.1.6 or greater? Because I'm batting a zero, I haven't found one yet, must just be my taste in movies (that I like to own and watch more than once). Cheers Gary Shape of Water - 9.1.6 😜 The underwater realism is amazing, you can really hear the vibrations all around you. |
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Post by musicfan on Jun 7, 2018 20:01:16 GMT -5
Yes 20 movies is extremely small. There are 624 Blu-ray with atmos sound. Super, how many have you found with 9.1.6 or greater? Because I'm batting a zero, I haven't found one yet, must just be my taste in movies (that I like to own and watch more than once). Cheers Gary I call BS to your list anyhow he Last Jedi which is labelled Dolby Atmos 7.1.4 DISNEY Blade Runner 2049 which is labelled Dolby Atmos 7.1.4 Wonder Woman which is labelled Dolby Atmos and Dolby TrueHD 7.1DISNEY Justice League which is labelled Dolby Atmos and Dolby TrueHD 7.1 + DTSHD MA 5.1 Thor Ragnarok - Dolby Atmos 7.1.4 DISNEY Guardians of the Galaxy 2 - Dolby Atmos 7.1.4 DISNEY Jurassic Park (1993) NOT AN ATMOS MOVIE The Lost World: Jurassic Park (1997). NOT AN ATMOS MOVIE Jurassic Park III (2001) NOT AN ATMOS MOVIE Jurassic World (2015)NOT AN ATMOS MOVIE Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (2018) NOT EVEN Out IN THEATERS!!! The Matrix The Matrix Reloaded NOT ON 4K not atmos The Matrix Revolutions NOT ON 4K not atmos Suicide Squad Logan - Disney Captain America Civil War - Disney so some flat out lies in there. And the rest are just about Disney. So again I don’t believe a word you say about atmos ]Avengers Age of UltroN - Disney |
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Post by Gary Cook on Jun 7, 2018 21:37:00 GMT -5
Super, how many have you found with 9.1.6 or greater? Because I'm batting a zero, I haven't found one yet, must just be my taste in movies (that I like to own and watch more than once). Cheers Gary I call BS to your list anyhow he Last Jedi which is labelled Dolby Atmos 7.1.4 DISNEY Blade Runner 2049 which is labelled Dolby Atmos 7.1.4 Wonder Woman which is labelled Dolby Atmos and Dolby TrueHD 7.1DISNEY Justice League which is labelled Dolby Atmos and Dolby TrueHD 7.1 + DTSHD MA 5.1 Thor Ragnarok - Dolby Atmos 7.1.4 DISNEY Guardians of the Galaxy 2 - Dolby Atmos 7.1.4 DISNEY Jurassic Park (1993) NOT AN ATMOS MOVIE The Lost World: Jurassic Park (1997). NOT AN ATMOS MOVIE Jurassic Park III (2001) NOT AN ATMOS MOVIE Jurassic World (2015)NOT AN ATMOS MOVIE Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (2018) NOT EVEN Out IN THEATERS!!! The Matrix The Matrix Reloaded NOT ON 4K not atmos The Matrix Revolutions NOT ON 4K not atmos Suicide Squad Logan - Disney Captain America Civil War - Disney so some flat out lies in there. And the rest are just about Disney. So again I don’t believe a word you say about atmos ]Avengers Age of UltroN - Disney My apologies, but I think perhaps you are reading the list incorrectly, it was a list of the movies that we tried over the weekend when we had the Storm processor. It wasn't restricted to Atmos movies only, it included DTS-X sound tracks and also some that we found that we thought might be interesting to try up mixing. For example the original Jurassic Park, we tried it because it was one of the few movies on hand that had DTS Digital Sound and we tried DTS NeuralX up mixing on it. FWIW Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom may not be released in the USA, but it's been out for a couple of weeks elsewhere. That said, I take your point that lot of them are Disney releases, but a number aren't, for example Blade Runner 2049 (Sony Pictures here), The Matrix (Warners), Suicide Squad (Warners). So it's a bit unfair to claim that the 7.1.4 pinning is only Disney. Cheers Gary |
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Post by mgbpuff on Jun 7, 2018 21:51:24 GMT -5
Here is a source for all Atmos movie releases on Bluray(https://www.dolby.com/us/en/cinema/theatrical-releases.html). The thing with Atmos discs is we don't know how they were authored, i.e. we don't know how many objects are in them or indeed how many objects were encoded during the original cinema mixes. We don't know if all the objects were given moving metadata or just pinned to a channel. We didn't know until recently that Dolby Atmos discs didn't include the entire Dolby Atmos home spectrum as they defined it. The studios are being totally silent about how much immersive content they put into any given movie and they certainly have been silent on the recent 7.1.4 limited releases. Lets let the limited edition studios know how we feel! We can not expect to be able to influence how many objects are in a movie or on a disc, but we should expect them to adhere to the original Dolby Atmos standard so that any size system now and in the future can render to as many speakers as can be accommodated to increase the placement accuracy of object sounds.
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Post by Gary Cook on Jun 7, 2018 22:25:11 GMT -5
Here is a source for all Atmos movie releases on Bluray(https://www.dolby.com/us/en/cinema/theatrical-releases.html). The thing with Atmos discs is we don't know how they were authored, i.e. we don't know how many objects are in them or indeed how many objects were encoded during the original cinema mixes. We don't know if all the objects were given moving metadata or just pinned to a channel. We didn't know until recently that Dolby Atmos discs didn't include the entire Dolby Atmos home spectrum as they defined it. The studios are being totally silent about how much immersive content they put into any given movie and they certainly have been silent on the recent 7.1.4 limited releases. Lets let the limited edition studios know how we feel! We can not expect to be able to influence how many objects are in a movie or on a disc, but we should expect them to adhere to the original Dolby Atmos standard so that any size system now and in the future can render to as many speakers as can be accommodated to increase the placement accuracy of object sounds. FWIW I think Disney are doing the right thing by quoting "Dolby Atmos 7.1.4" on their discs. I have found reviews (professional or otherwise) to be next to useless in determining the exact format. That's why we spent the time trying as many as we could lay our hands on. I also think it's a bit sneaky of Dolby to release pinning software and then not mention it and/or provide a white paper. At least DTS has always said DTS-X is 7.1.4, not muddied the water like Dolby does with cinema descriptions that don't apply to HT releases. Cheers Gary |
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Post by andyman on Jun 7, 2018 22:59:16 GMT -5
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Post by Gary Cook on Jun 7, 2018 23:43:36 GMT -5
I'm aware, someone raised it a couple of days/pages ago  Cheers Gary |
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Post by Bonzo on Jun 7, 2018 23:58:34 GMT -5
Nice polite post. The fact that you never seem to get called out by mods mystifies me. Says wonders. |
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Post by musicfan on Jun 8, 2018 5:37:49 GMT -5
I call BS to your list anyhow he Last Jedi which is labelled Dolby Atmos 7.1.4 DISNEY Blade Runner 2049 which is labelled Dolby Atmos 7.1.4 Wonder Woman which is labelled Dolby Atmos and Dolby TrueHD 7.1DISNEY Justice League which is labelled Dolby Atmos and Dolby TrueHD 7.1 + DTSHD MA 5.1 Thor Ragnarok - Dolby Atmos 7.1.4 DISNEY Guardians of the Galaxy 2 - Dolby Atmos 7.1.4 DISNEY Jurassic Park (1993) NOT AN ATMOS MOVIE The Lost World: Jurassic Park (1997). NOT AN ATMOS MOVIE Jurassic Park III (2001) NOT AN ATMOS MOVIE Jurassic World (2015)NOT AN ATMOS MOVIE Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom (2018) NOT EVEN Out IN THEATERS!!! The Matrix The Matrix Reloaded NOT ON 4K not atmos The Matrix Revolutions NOT ON 4K not atmos Suicide Squad Logan - Disney Captain America Civil War - Disney so some flat out lies in there. And the rest are just about Disney. So again I don’t believe a word you say about atmos ]Avengers Age of UltroN - Disney My apologies, but I think perhaps you are reading the list incorrectly, it was a list of the movies that we tried over the weekend when we had the Storm processor. It wasn't restricted to Atmos movies only, it included DTS-X sound tracks and also some that we found that we thought might be interesting to try up mixing. For example the original Jurassic Park, we tried it because it was one of the few movies on hand that had DTS Digital Sound and we tried DTS NeuralX up mixing on it. FWIW Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom may not be released in the USA, but it's been out for a couple of weeks elsewhere. That said, I take your point that lot of them are Disney releases, but a number aren't, for example Blade Runner 2049 (Sony Pictures here), The Matrix (Warners), Suicide Squad (Warners). So it's a bit unfair to claim that the 7.1.4 pinning is only Disney. Cheers Gary No. I am NOT reading the list incorrectly. You specifically stated the 20 disc you “tested” for full atmos and you are batting zero. And a bunch of your claimed disc aren’t realeased anywhere in the world )despite your claim. And if the new Jurassic world was released in theaters ion the UK. How the HELL did you test it at home?? And have yet to be remixed to atmos Explain the second two matrix movies. They have not been remixes So you have found THREE movies that are atmos that supposedly aren’t full atmos that are not specifically labeled that way. I think you got busted and are now trying to save face. Somehow you lying and getting caught is ME “misreading” your post. Nope EDIT: so Jurassic world 2 came out on Wednesday overseas. Where is this “few weeks” timetable you are coming up with. 2 things. You 100% didnt hear it in home and 2 you said you had the 9.2.6 processor a few months ago...yep another lie |
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Post by mgbpuff on Jun 8, 2018 6:35:34 GMT -5
Nice polite post. The fact that you never seem to get called out by mods mystifies me. Says wonders. You're taking it out of context, Mr. 50% Warned! |
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Post by rbk123 on Jun 8, 2018 8:56:48 GMT -5
Nice polite post. The fact that you never seem to get called out by mods mystifies me. Says wonders. You know, I think he meant that for me and I totally missed it. I have to say reading it made me laugh - ahhhh, the puff'er.... Good times, good times. |
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Post by socketman on Jun 8, 2018 9:30:17 GMT -5
I dont WTF musicfan is so upset about , must have stock in ATMOS or something. Really , just go read the threads over on AVS from people who work in the industry, they are saying the same things. BTW i read a couple of UK audio magazines and they tend to really get screwed on the soundtrack front over there. I suspect Oz may suffer a similar fate. This is the main reason Oppo's were modified to be region free because there are many discs they dont get and that are also hobbled. They often get releases before us as well.
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Post by musicfan on Jun 8, 2018 9:49:58 GMT -5
I dont WTF musicfan is so upset about , must have stock in ATMOS or something. Really , just go read the threads over on AVS from people who work in the industry, they are saying the same things. BTW i read a couple of UK audio magazines and they tend to really get screwed on the soundtrack front over there. I suspect Oz may suffer a similar fate. This is the main reason Oppo's were modified to be region free because there are many discs they dont get and that are also hobbled. They often get releases before us as well. i am not SO upset...I am just saying his "findings" are bogus. and he keeps plastering this stuff allover this board. its fake news. and what I am referring to is the number of discs he claims to be affected. I just want PROOF....not some made up list of movies with a borrowed processor. I have already stated it DOESNT effect me...i have 7.4.4 and have since the day the first atmos processor came out....and will never have/need more channels my room is small enough. this could be about literally anything...and if your argument is made up....im gonna call you out on it. if what he is saying IS true...I want proof...show me screenshots of what the processor says....I will learn somthing new...I am ok with that...but dont tell me you have tested a disc that has ATMOS when that movie was released overseas in commercial theaters 2 days ago! for example....Mr Cook also states (repeatedly) ATMOS discs sound better in general....all you need to do is tell the processor in the settings you have 7.1.4 even though you REALLY only have 5.1 and it will sound better! what?!?! you will be missing sounds! if I only have a 2.1 setup and tell my processor I have 3.1 hooked up...guess what will happen...better sound? NO! you will get zero dialogue since the center channel wont be heard! so I am debunking a false generalization with false claims....so someone doesnt stumble upon this thread and read these false reports....and think they are true...thats not ok |
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Post by socketman on Jun 8, 2018 10:09:34 GMT -5
Still sound upset to me. Instead of bashing Gary maybe try emulating his behavior. You have no idea whats available in Australia or the UK or Europe thats why they have regions. Nothing he says flies in the face of what has been discovered by many people on AVS. I have nothing more to say other than you could use a little work on your tact.
Have a nice day.
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