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Post by Topend on Jun 17, 2014 14:04:13 GMT -5
Could it be that Emotiva is considering Atmos for one of their processors?
Dave.
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klinemj
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Official Emofest Scribe
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Post by klinemj on Jun 17, 2014 16:00:21 GMT -5
Hopefully for the RMC-1!
Mark
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Post by srrndhound on Jun 17, 2014 19:55:42 GMT -5
What you suggest makes sense - with one slight restatement. Package the fully rendered Atmos Mix (at 7.1), then include ONLY CERTAIN Channels as separate Channels. Yes, when I speak of the "full object-based mix," I mean the object mix created just for home delivery. I agree there will not be 118 objects involved. And I think you mean "objects" and not "channels," right? Yes (again if you mean objects and not channels). Exactly. |
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Post by emocustomer on Jun 23, 2014 9:56:04 GMT -5
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Post by Andrew Robinson on Jun 23, 2014 10:12:27 GMT -5
Onkyo has already unveiled their new line of AV receivers and processors all of which will have Atmos decoding. They're even showing speakers with the angled height channels sitting atop.  |
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Post by emocustomer on Jun 23, 2014 10:16:39 GMT -5
Onkyo has already unveiled their new line of AV receivers and processors all of which will have Atmos decoding. They're even showing speakers with the angled height channels sitting atop. Yes, it is an exciting time at the moment. Denon units have already been revealed by embargo-busting French AV media too. Interesting pics of those height modules. That would make a nice addition, IMO, to the Emotiva speaker range - Atmos height modules! If Emo can bring their usual value concept to the modules, along with good Vance Dickason type design, they could be a winner. Just a thought  |
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Post by Andrew Robinson on Jun 23, 2014 10:45:12 GMT -5
Onkyo has already unveiled their new line of AV receivers and processors all of which will have Atmos decoding. They're even showing speakers with the angled height channels sitting atop. Yes, it is an exciting time at the moment. Denon units have already been revealed by embargo-busting French AV media too. Interesting pics of those height modules. That would make a nice addition, IMO, to the Emotiva speaker range - Atmos height modules! If Emo can bring their usual value concept to the modules, along with good Vance Dickason type design, they could be a winner. Just a thought The problem with Dolby Atmos isn't what it can do, or its promise of a better, more encompassing experience in one's home. The problem with Atmos, at least in my eyes, is that it is yet another technology that appears out of touch with where the mass market is headed. Sure HT enthusiasts and true believers will jump aboard with reckless abandon, but your everyday consumer...not so much. Consumers, even some HT enthusiasts, don't know how to incorporate 2 speakers into their home let alone 7.1.4 (the .4 is the number of ceiling speakers in an Atmos setup). Moreover, folks don't want more speakers, and given all of our digital wizardry and DSP technology can you blame them (general consumers)? Living spaces are becoming smaller, entertainment more portable and so on and so forth. While Atmos is exciting and a treat at the theatrical level, its introduction into the home market is yet another example of the industry going out of its way to solve a problem that doesn't actually exist. While there are aspects of today's announcement(s) surrounding Atmos that are intriguing to me, specifically Onkyo's new, compact, Atmos loudspeakers, I fear this is but a distraction, which like 3D, will occupy our time and the conversation for a while before we're able to move on. Thankfully, it appears that Atmos isn't going to cost those who want to partake an arm and a leg. I've even read that older Onkyo AV receivers and processors will be made Atmos compatible via a firmware update coming in September. Okay, rant over. |
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Jun 23, 2014 11:32:30 GMT -5
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Post by emocustomer on Jun 23, 2014 11:55:28 GMT -5
Yes, it is an exciting time at the moment. Denon units have already been revealed by embargo-busting French AV media too. Interesting pics of those height modules. That would make a nice addition, IMO, to the Emotiva speaker range - Atmos height modules! If Emo can bring their usual value concept to the modules, along with good Vance Dickason type design, they could be a winner. Just a thought The problem with Dolby Atmos isn't what it can do, or its promise of a better, more encompassing experience in one's home. The problem with Atmos, at least in my eyes, is that it is yet another technology that appears out of touch with where the mass market is headed. Sure HT enthusiasts and true believers will jump aboard with reckless abandon, but your everyday consumer...not so much. Consumers, even some HT enthusiasts, don't know how to incorporate 2 speakers into their home let alone 7.1.4 (the .4 is the number of ceiling speakers in an Atmos setup). Moreover, folks don't want more speakers, and given all of our digital wizardry and DSP technology can you blame them (general consumers)? Living spaces are becoming smaller, entertainment more portable and so on and so forth. While Atmos is exciting and a treat at the theatrical level, its introduction into the home market is yet another example of the industry going out of its way to solve a problem that doesn't actually exist. While there are aspects of today's announcement(s) surrounding Atmos that are intriguing to me, specifically Onkyo's new, compact, Atmos loudspeakers, I fear this is but a distraction, which like 3D, will occupy our time and the conversation for a while before we're able to move on. Thankfully, it appears that Atmos isn't going to cost those who want to partake an arm and a leg. I've even read that older Onkyo AV receivers and processors will be made Atmos compatible via a firmware update coming in September. Okay, rant over. I have a problem with discussions that involve "most people". Most people don't want Atmos, I agree. Nor do they want 5.1. Most people are happy with TV sound or a soundbar (now that would make a killer emo product given their volume sales). Atmos, like 5.1 or 7.1 is aimed at enthusiasts. In fact "most people", if we look at sales figures and market share, don't want Bluray either. They are happy with DVD or with fairly low quality streaming. But I don't usually hear people dismissing Bluray on the grounds that it isn't what mainstream consumers want and I don't hear people saying stuff like "DVD is good enough". Same with DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD. How many consumers have gear that is good enough to resolve any sonic differences between those and DD 5.1? Certainly not the guy with the soundbar. Nor the guy with the HTIB. And quite probably a fair number of those with more advanced HTs if they aren't in dedicated rooms. Technology moves forwards or it dies. HD-MA, TrueHD, Bluray have all become the de facto standards, regardless of whether the majority are able or willing to use it. And it will be the same with Atmos. Atmos sound is now the new de facto sound for HT in the home. It makes no difference whether the mainstream consumer wants it or not - it is a reality and that is it. Sound for HT has moved to the next level, just as it did when it went from 2.0 to Prologic to 5.1. And people don't need new speakers to take advantage of Atmos. There are advantages for people with conventional 5.1 speaker layouts too. Although obviously not as great as a 5.1.4 setup would be. Atmos scales to soundbars and even TVs (at least one major HBO TV series is already being mixed in Atmos). Atmos can be delivered on Bluray via conventional BD players, and by streaming. It does not require vastly increased bandwidth. Nor do people need to mount speakers on or in their ceilings as the image you posted from Onkyo shows. The fact that more or less the entire mainstream AV industry will be revealing Atmos units and Atmos speakers this fall shows this to be no mere gimmick IMO. it is the launch of a new de facto sound standard for HT - the first for almost 10 years. Soon, all those main brands will be featuring Atmos. People who have no use for it will simply ignore it - as we do now with current units. I'd guess that over half of the features on my current processor will never be used by me. Atmos-enabled units will play legacy content with no issues at all. And if someone buys an Atmos Bluray, and they have even a 5.1 layout, they will still get benefits from it. There's no downside - even wrt to cost as the new units being released this fall aren’t costing any more than the outgoing units. Only time will tell, Andrew, who is right on this one. Clearly, I believe that Atmos will become the new de facto standard, so my colors are already nailed to the mast. I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with me on this and I respect all views, contrary or not. But I really don't understand the "most people" argument as a good one for being of the view that Atmos will not establish itself as this new de facto standard. |
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Post by Topend on Jun 23, 2014 13:00:34 GMT -5
Will Atmos make it into an Emotiva product? Could a FW update make this possible or will a new generation of hardware be required?
Dave.
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Post by Andrew Robinson on Jun 23, 2014 13:02:37 GMT -5
The problem with Dolby Atmos isn't what it can do, or its promise of a better, more encompassing experience in one's home. The problem with Atmos, at least in my eyes, is that it is yet another technology that appears out of touch with where the mass market is headed. Sure HT enthusiasts and true believers will jump aboard with reckless abandon, but your everyday consumer...not so much. Consumers, even some HT enthusiasts, don't know how to incorporate 2 speakers into their home let alone 7.1.4 (the .4 is the number of ceiling speakers in an Atmos setup). Moreover, folks don't want more speakers, and given all of our digital wizardry and DSP technology can you blame them (general consumers)? Living spaces are becoming smaller, entertainment more portable and so on and so forth. While Atmos is exciting and a treat at the theatrical level, its introduction into the home market is yet another example of the industry going out of its way to solve a problem that doesn't actually exist. While there are aspects of today's announcement(s) surrounding Atmos that are intriguing to me, specifically Onkyo's new, compact, Atmos loudspeakers, I fear this is but a distraction, which like 3D, will occupy our time and the conversation for a while before we're able to move on. Thankfully, it appears that Atmos isn't going to cost those who want to partake an arm and a leg. I've even read that older Onkyo AV receivers and processors will be made Atmos compatible via a firmware update coming in September. Okay, rant over. I have a problem with discussions that involve "most people". Most people don't want Atmos, I agree. Nor do they want 5.1. Most people are happy with TV sound or a soundbar (now that would make a killer emo product given their volume sales). Atmos, like 5.1 or 7.1 is aimed at enthusiasts. In fact "most people", if we look at sales figures and market share, don't want Bluray either. They are happy with DVD or with fairly low quality streaming. But I don't usually hear people dismissing Bluray on the grounds that it isn't what mainstream consumers want and I don't hear people saying stuff like "DVD is good enough". Same with DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD. How many consumers have gear that is good enough to resolve any sonic differences between those and DD 5.1? Certainly not the guy with the soundbar. Nor the guy with the HTIB. And quite probably a fair number of those with more advanced HTs if they aren't in dedicated rooms. Technology moves forwards or it dies. HD-MA, TrueHD, Bluray have all become the de facto standards, regardless of whether the majority are able or willing to use it. And it will be the same with Atmos. Atmos sound is now the new de facto sound for HT in the home. It makes no difference whether the mainstream consumer wants it or not - it is a reality and that is it. Sound for HT has moved to the next level, just as it did when it went from 2.0 to Prologic to 5.1. And people don't need new speakers to take advantage of Atmos. There are advantages for people with conventional 5.1 speaker layouts too. Although obviously not as great as a 5.1.4 setup would be. Atmos scales to soundbars and even TVs (at least one major HBO TV series is already being mixed in Atmos). Atmos can be delivered on Bluray via conventional BD players, and by streaming. It does not require vastly increased bandwidth. Nor do people need to mount speakers on or in their ceilings as the image you posted from Onkyo shows. The fact that more or less the entire mainstream AV industry will be revealing Atmos units and Atmos speakers this fall shows this to be no mere gimmick IMO. it is the launch of a new de facto sound standard for HT - the first for almost 10 years. Soon, all those main brands will be featuring Atmos. People who have no use for it will simply ignore it - as we do now with current units. I'd guess that over half of the features on my current processor will never be used by me. Atmos-enabled units will play legacy content with no issues at all. And if someone buys an Atmos Bluray, and they have even a 5.1 layout, they will still get benefits from it. There's no downside - even wrt to cost as the new units being released this fall aren’t costing any more than the outgoing units. Only time will tell, Andrew, who is right on this one. Clearly, I believe that Atmos will become the new de facto standard, so my colors are already nailed to the mast. I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with me on this and I respect all views, contrary or not. But I really don't understand the "most people" argument as a good one for being of the view that Atmos will not establish itself as this new de facto standard. To be clear I never said Atmos won't become the norm or standard (or de facto standard as you so eloquently put it), I merely stated that for the majority, it's little more than yet another format many will know little about. The reason I believe the "most people" argument is valid is this; to grow a hobby you need most people. You don't get to be Bose, Beats, Apple, hell, Bowers & Wilkins, by not trying to include and/or attract most people. I'm not trying to put down Atmos, or Dolby on a whole for I actually love the company very much and think they're doing some remarkable things with both audio and video technology -some of which I believe have a chance to be far more impactful than Atmos. That being said, I felt the Atmos loudspeakers from Onkyo were a creative solution to what is now a new problem. I guess, and this is just me personally, I would be more impressed in a technology that required less but that brought you more, versus demanding more in order to give you more. This is why I back soundbars (flame away), wireless loudspeakers, etc. etc. for they solve real-world problems for real-world people. They bring people into the fold rather than drive them away. This hobby needs new blood, and I'm sorry, as cool as Atmos is, you're not going to attract new people in mass by telling them what they really need to do is buy more loudspeakers. (Yes I know Atmos will work with existing 5.1 setups and have benefits, though the push is going to be for consumers to add rather than adapt what they already have. ) |
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Post by 134lrs on Jun 23, 2014 13:56:41 GMT -5
I have a problem with discussions that involve "most people". Most people don't want Atmos, I agree. Nor do they want 5.1. Most people are happy with TV sound or a soundbar (now that would make a killer emo product given their volume sales). Atmos, like 5.1 or 7.1 is aimed at enthusiasts. In fact "most people", if we look at sales figures and market share, don't want Bluray either. They are happy with DVD or with fairly low quality streaming. But I don't usually hear people dismissing Bluray on the grounds that it isn't what mainstream consumers want and I don't hear people saying stuff like "DVD is good enough". Same with DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD. How many consumers have gear that is good enough to resolve any sonic differences between those and DD 5.1? Certainly not the guy with the soundbar. Nor the guy with the HTIB. And quite probably a fair number of those with more advanced HTs if they aren't in dedicated rooms. Technology moves forwards or it dies. HD-MA, TrueHD, Bluray have all become the de facto standards, regardless of whether the majority are able or willing to use it. And it will be the same with Atmos. Atmos sound is now the new de facto sound for HT in the home. It makes no difference whether the mainstream consumer wants it or not - it is a reality and that is it. Sound for HT has moved to the next level, just as it did when it went from 2.0 to Prologic to 5.1. And people don't need new speakers to take advantage of Atmos. There are advantages for people with conventional 5.1 speaker layouts too. Although obviously not as great as a 5.1.4 setup would be. Atmos scales to soundbars and even TVs (at least one major HBO TV series is already being mixed in Atmos). Atmos can be delivered on Bluray via conventional BD players, and by streaming. It does not require vastly increased bandwidth. Nor do people need to mount speakers on or in their ceilings as the image you posted from Onkyo shows. The fact that more or less the entire mainstream AV industry will be revealing Atmos units and Atmos speakers this fall shows this to be no mere gimmick IMO. it is the launch of a new de facto sound standard for HT - the first for almost 10 years. Soon, all those main brands will be featuring Atmos. People who have no use for it will simply ignore it - as we do now with current units. I'd guess that over half of the features on my current processor will never be used by me. Atmos-enabled units will play legacy content with no issues at all. And if someone buys an Atmos Bluray, and they have even a 5.1 layout, they will still get benefits from it. There's no downside - even wrt to cost as the new units being released this fall aren’t costing any more than the outgoing units. Only time will tell, Andrew, who is right on this one. Clearly, I believe that Atmos will become the new de facto standard, so my colors are already nailed to the mast. I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with me on this and I respect all views, contrary or not. But I really don't understand the "most people" argument as a good one for being of the view that Atmos will not establish itself as this new de facto standard. To be clear I never said Atmos won't become the norm or standard (or de facto standard as you so eloquently put it), I merely stated that for the majority, it's little more than yet another format many will know little about. The reason I believe the "most people" argument is valid is this; to grow a hobby you need most people. You don't get to be Bose, Beats, Apple, hell, Bowers & Wilkins, by not trying to include and/or attract most people. I'm not trying to put down Atmos, or Dolby on a whole for I actually love the company very much and think they're doing some remarkable things with both audio and video technology -some of which I believe have a chance to be far more impactful than Atmos. That being said, I felt the Atmos loudspeakers from Onkyo were a creative solution to what is now a new problem. I guess, and this is just me personally, I would be more impressed in a technology that required less but that brought you more, versus demanding more in order to give you more. This is why I back soundbars (flame away), wireless loudspeakers, etc. etc. for they solve real-world problems for real-world people. They bring people into the fold rather than drive them away. This hobby needs new blood, and I'm sorry, as cool as Atmos is, you're not going to attract new people in mass by telling them what they really need to do is buy more loudspeakers. (Yes I know Atmos will work with existing 5.1 setups and have benefits, though the push is going to be for consumers to add rather than adapt what they already have. ) My concern, and I think I agree with your assesment Andrew, is that the "masses" are in fact happier with less. A prime example would be the utter BOOM of streaming video services and Blockbuster Video closing its doors. Redboxes are popping up everywhere but from my understanding they lack the premier lossless audio formats. From what I've heard, Sony has revealed that there is a drastic loss for Bluray demand, and understandibly so. The paradox here is the major hype of UHD displays, and now Atmos. In an era of crowds simply streaming movies and shows to their handheld devices at an ever increasing rate, I wonder if these "cutting edge" technologies will find an attractive marketshare. I for one sure hope they do, I value high quality video as well as audio and am worried about what this new demand (or lack there of) will bring to users such as myself and the members of forums such as this one. I also agree that soundbars are the new "thing," just as Bose HTIB once was. I am unaware if Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc will be able to realistically stream movies in Atmos. Perhaps someone with more knowlege could chime in. |
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Post by wizardofoz on Jun 23, 2014 14:10:54 GMT -5
Why cant you just make your statements without quoting everything in the last...no wonder threads get to 100's of pages. If you are going to quote something it should be one or maybe 2 specific pinpoints out of a long post.
Andrew as a director of digital content I would have expected you of all people to lead by example.
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Post by jackpine on Jun 23, 2014 14:19:18 GMT -5
The price of 60" 3D screen is as low as a decent speaker now days. Maybe it's time to get more immersive with our video, for the you are there sensation. The new slightly curved screens some may call a gimmick. Seven of them around a room with an Atmos like steering for 3D objects, I can't wait.
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Post by Andrew Robinson on Jun 23, 2014 14:24:24 GMT -5
My concern, and I think I agree with your assesment Andrew, is that the "masses" are in fact happier with less. A prime example would be the utter BOOM of streaming video services and Blockbuster Video closing its doors. Redboxes are popping up everywhere but from my understanding they lack the premier lossless audio formats. From what I've heard, Sony has revealed that there is a drastic loss for Bluray demand, and understandibly so. The paradox here is the major hype of UHD displays, and now Atmos. In an era of crowds simply streaming movies and shows to their handheld devices at an ever increasing rate, I wonder if these "cutting edge" technologies will find an attractive marketshare. I for one sure hope they do, I value high quality video as well as audio and am worried about what this new demand (or lack there of) will bring to users such as myself and the members of forums such as this one. I also agree that soundbars are the new "thing," just as Bose HTIB once was. I am unaware if Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc will be able to realistically stream movies in Atmos. Perhaps someone with more knowlege could chime in. True, streaming services such as Netflix and/or vudu lack the high resolution surround sound codecs such as Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio. The best they (streaming) have to offer at present is Dolby Digital Plus, which is closer to Dolby Digital than to TrueHD. Still, not bad. Despite Blu-ray being the current king of physical media, it failed to take off quite in the same way VHS and DVD did. Blu-ray isn't a failure, but it is arguably going to be our last physical disc format. Yes, UltraHD/4K sets are the new it thing along with technology such as Dolby's new Atmos, though you are correct in wondering if the "crowds" will care. I wonder that too. I don't want any new technology to fail, however, there are legitimate issues facing the specialty AV marketplace and very few companies seem to care, or are actively trying to do anything about it. Atmos is only going to be attractive to those who are already in the know so to speak, which is the same market the AV industry has watched shrink before their very eyes. Every AV manufacturer executive or company owner that I know has literally asked me, how does one become Bose? Beats? Apple? Vizio? How does one do that? I don't pretend to have the answer, though I know it's not one thing, but I know this much, you don't get there by telling folks they need even more black boxes. You also don't get there by following along with the status quo. |
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Jun 23, 2014 14:39:08 GMT -5
Personally, I'm waiting for the real ultimate merging of bleeding edge technology.... Little height speakers with propellers on the top that take off from a little hangar on the side of your AVR, automatically position themselves at the proper points, and hover there.... at least until the batteries run down.  The price of 60" 3D screen is as low as a decent speaker now days. Maybe it's time to get more immersive with our video, for the you are there sensation. The new slightly curved screens some may call a gimmick. Seven of them around a room with an Atmos like steering for 3D objects, I can't wait. |
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Post by chaosrv on Jun 23, 2014 15:02:10 GMT -5
Personally, I'm waiting for the real ultimate merging of bleeding edge technology.... Little height speakers with propellers on the top that take off from a little hangar on the side of your AVR, automatically position themselves at the proper points, and hover there.... at least until the batteries run down. The price of 60" 3D screen is as low as a decent speaker now days. Maybe it's time to get more immersive with our video, for the you are there sensation. The new slightly curved screens some may call a gimmick. Seven of them around a room with an Atmos like steering for 3D objects, I can't wait. Keith, You are forgetting they will be powered by minature cold fusion generators, batteries as we know them will be a thing of the past. |
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Jun 23, 2014 15:02:41 GMT -5
Will Atmos make it into an Emotiva product? Could a FW update make this possible or will a new generation of hardware be required? Dave. You are not asking the right question. (where is that tongue in cheek smiley?) Try this: Can we expect to configure the XMC-1 in a 5.2.2 configuration? notice I didn't ask 5.2.4 since we all know the XMC is 7.2 out only so off the bat it isn't the ideal Atmos candidate. now if it was 9.2.......  |
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Post by Topend on Jun 23, 2014 15:08:52 GMT -5
now if it was 9.2....... RMC-1 maybe? |
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Jun 23, 2014 15:14:37 GMT -5
Actually, I was planning to hold out for anti-gravity drive. (And they'll come with an accessory asbestos carpet - just in case you have to do a "warm landing" some time ....)  Personally, I'm waiting for the real ultimate merging of bleeding edge technology.... Little height speakers with propellers on the top that take off from a little hangar on the side of your AVR, automatically position themselves at the proper points, and hover there.... at least until the batteries run down. Keith, You are forgetting they will be powered by minature cold fusion generators, batteries as we know them will be a thing of the past. |
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