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Post by jmilton on Jun 23, 2014 15:22:46 GMT -5
Why cant you just make your statements without quoting everything in the last...no wonder threads get to 100's of pages. If you are going to quote something it should be one or maybe 2 specific pinpoints out of a long post. Andrew as a director of digital content I would have expected you of all people to lead by example. ...he makes a good point. (And you can quote me on that....)  |
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Post by Andrew Robinson on Jun 23, 2014 15:29:47 GMT -5
Why cant you just make your statements without quoting everything in the last...no wonder threads get to 100's of pages. If you are going to quote something it should be one or maybe 2 specific pinpoints out of a long post. Andrew as a director of digital content I would have expected you of all people to lead by example. ...he makes a good point. (And you can quote me on that....)  |
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RayJr
Seeker Of Truth
Making the world better...one display at a time.
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Post by RayJr on Jun 23, 2014 15:30:38 GMT -5
I am unaware if Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc will be able to realistically stream movies in Atmos. Perhaps someone with more knowlege could chime in. True, streaming services such as Netflix and/or vudu lack the high resolution surround sound codecs such as Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio. The best they (streaming) have to offer at present is Dolby Digital Plus, which is closer to Dolby Digital than to TrueHD. "But Dolby Atmos isn’t just about hardware. At its core, it’s a powerful creative tool that lets filmmakers use exceptionally lifelike sound to deliver the full impact of their artistic vision. We’re working with studios and production houses to help them create Dolby Atmos soundtracks for a broad range of movies and TV for home viewing. You’ll start to see Dolby Atmos titles on Blu-ray and streaming video services this fall, with more to come at the start of 2015." Direct from the Dolby BlogRayJr |
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Post by Andrew Robinson on Jun 23, 2014 15:39:11 GMT -5
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Post by ÈlTwo on Jun 23, 2014 16:02:13 GMT -5
If you are going to quote something it should be one or maybe 2 specific pinpoints out of a long post. There are many offenders; everyone should please quote carefully and concisely. |
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klinemj
Emo VIPs 
Official Emofest Scribe
Posts: 15,095
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Post by klinemj on Jun 23, 2014 16:03:38 GMT -5
I am looking forward to hearing what Atmos brings to the party. Only 8 years ago, I was 2-channel only and took the jump into surround when I built my theater. I thought it was amazing. Then, as BluRay became popular, I got into that and was amazed it could get better than what I had been used to. I upgraded my surround speakers and again - was quite happy with the improvement. So, I am open to the possibility that Atmos may bring yet another jump in my own personal experience. So, for my next pre/pro, I'd like to keep the price in reason but would choose one that could handle Atmos over one that was otherwise comparable in features I find important and price.
That said, I can just hear the sales pitches at the big box stores to people not knowing anything about surround sound. Luckily, I avoid such stores so I don't have to hear it first hand, but I do get to hear lunch discussions about what someone bought at such stores and why. I try to avoid chuckling.
Mark
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Post by TempTag on Jun 23, 2014 19:43:54 GMT -5
I love the idea of Atmos and have a potential basement canvas waiting IF the technology takes off. While I love the way my Blurays sound but they almost always lose if a digital copy is available on Vudu or Netflix - I am happy to read Atmos will stream...
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hemster
Global Moderator 
Particle Manufacturer
...still listening... still watching
Posts: 51,952
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Post by hemster on Jun 23, 2014 20:39:53 GMT -5
I am looking forward to hearing what Atmos brings to the party. Only 8 years ago, I was 2-channel only and took the jump into surround when I built my theater. I thought it was amazing. Then, as BluRay became popular, I got into that and was amazed it could get better than what I had been used to. I upgraded my surround speakers and again - was quite happy with the improvement. So, I am open to the possibility that Atmos may bring yet another jump in my own personal experience. So, for my next pre/pro, I'd like to keep the price in reason but would choose one that could handle Atmos over one that was otherwise comparable in features I find important and price. That said, I can just hear the sales pitches at the big box stores to people not knowing anything about surround sound. Luckily, I avoid such stores so I don't have to hear it first hand, but I do get to hear lunch discussions about what someone bought at such stores and why. I try to avoid chuckling. Mark I'm waiting for the complementary technology to Atmos.. maybe it'll be called Sphere...   |
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Post by ÈlTwo on Jun 23, 2014 22:21:49 GMT -5
I can just hear the sales pitches at the big box stores to people not knowing anything about surround sound. Luckily, I avoid such stores so I don't have to hear it first hand, but I do get to hear lunch discussions about what someone bought at such stores and why. I try to avoid chuckling. Mark I see you're unfamiliar with the sport of "fishing for knowledge." The key is finding a salesperson or any staff member who will engage you in a discussion, but is unwilling to admit there is something they don't know. It doesn't always start out as fishing, it's usually an attempt to get more information . . . but as soon as the BS alarm goes off, the game is on. The only rules are that you have to respect someone who knows the limits of their knowledge, but if someone makes it up you have to bring the discussion to the point of absurdity. |
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Post by wizardofoz on Jun 23, 2014 23:22:30 GMT -5
from a local thread here in singapore It appears that after Dolby posted an official statement on Dolby Atmos for the home AV Receivers...Pioneer followed closely behind Onkyo releases an official statement that its EXISTING Elite-series of AV Receivers will RECEIVE A FIRMWARE UPGRADE to enable Dolby Atmos decoding?! Does that mean that the current hardware specs and components are more than able to handle "Dolby Atmos" just by updating the audio processing algorithm...hopefully Onkyo, Denon and Marantz users will be able to enjoy a free firmware upgrade? Hmmm... Maybe an XMC-1 firmware will be doable too...how that will interoperate with Dirac is anyones guess. Maybe for now I will make me one of these with small speakers everywhere hahahah  |
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Post by sme on Jun 24, 2014 0:38:38 GMT -5
The blog post (press release?) is a scant on the details of how Atmos at home differs from the cinema. I have no doubt that they are very different technologies. The only feature that is clearly shared between them is the ability to play sounds from above. Otherwise, given the considerable emphasis on legacy compatibility within the playback chain, I doubt that consumer Atmos supports the objects of its theatrical cousin. The fact that existing Onkyo units with HDMI versions less than 2.0 may be upgradeable suggests that the Atmos bitstream is either limited to 7 channels uses no more bandwidth than 7 channels PCM.
Depending on how well the technology is implemented, that may not be very important. Here's how I imagine the technology *might* work: The Blu-ray master is produced from an Atmos mix by rendering all objects onto a fixed 7 channel layout, probably something that looks like 5.1 + a pair of overheads. Then, when the mix is played back the processor uses steering (technology similar to PLIIx and PLIIz) to render the audio to whatever speaker configuration is present. Presumably, the speaker configuration could be auto-detected using a 3D-aware microphone, or manually configured by inputting angles along with distances.
This may be an unpleasant realization for some people, particularly those dead set against using steering processing modes like PLIIx, but I think it's a good compromise. Dolby's steering technology is actually quite good, and the results with 7 channels input will likely be better than with only 2 channels input as typically used with PLIIx. From a business standpoint, this or another dead simple implementation is probably the right move, and it dramatically increases the chances of us seeing media with consumer Atmos tracks on them. I can also Dolby revising the standard if and when a successor to Blu-ray becomes available with more capacity and bandwidth for multichannel audio. Let's wait and see what DTS comes up with, and let's not discount Auro 3D, either. A problem Dolby has is that if they market Atmos as being about "heights" (as they do in that blog post), then they won't be well differentiated from Auro 3D, which also supports heights.
Now, I personally am not all that excited about height speakers. In my current living room, I am planning to eventually install a large diffuser onto the ceiling, right where I would be expected to install height speakers. I could try adding those "strap-ons" that Onkyo is offering, but when the sound hits my diffuser, the "height" effect will be totally spoiled. The whole point of the diffuser is to make the sound reflected from it be perceived to be more omnidirectional. Either way, I wouldn't want to use any speakers other than the kind I already have. The "smaller" Hsu HB-1 is roughly 16"x8"x8", which is pretty big to be putting on my ceiling. Some might argue I should use smaller speakers, but that just won't fly for me. When Godzilla's "roar from above" rattles my chest, guess which speakers are being asked to produce 100 dB at 100 Hz? Whimpy woofers need not apply.
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Post by linvincible on Jun 24, 2014 3:04:49 GMT -5
I've noticed a growing number of you beginning to discuss the ins and outs of Dolby's new Atmos system and its proposed application(s) in the consumer space. Rather than spread the conversation out over a dozen or so different threads I thought I'd create one specifically for ALL DOLBY ATMOS talk going forward. So, what do you all think of Atmos -good idea, or just another gimmick designed to get enthusiasts to part with their hard earned money? I'm thinking about the budget to set up such a system. How good a stereo system could you buy with the same money? I'm already questionning my 5.0 system... so monsters like these... |
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Post by emocustomer on Jun 24, 2014 7:22:42 GMT -5
I am unaware if Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc will be able to realistically stream movies in Atmos. Perhaps someone with more knowlege could chime in. Yes - Dolby have confirmed that Atmos will work just fine with streaming services. The Atmos bitstream can be compressed for streaming and has no bandwidth requirements which currently exceed what is already available. This is the quote from their Dolby Lab Notes blog yesterday: You’ll start to see Dolby Atmos titles on Blu-ray and streaming video services this fall, with more to come at the start of 2015.
blog.dolby.com/2014/06/dolby-atmos-coming-soon-living-room-near/
EDIT: I see rayjr beat me to it!
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Post by emocustomer on Jun 24, 2014 7:27:33 GMT -5
from a local thread here in singapore It appears that after Dolby posted an official statement on Dolby Atmos for the home AV Receivers...Pioneer followed closely behind Onkyo releases an official statement that its EXISTING Elite-series of AV Receivers will RECEIVE A FIRMWARE UPGRADE to enable Dolby Atmos decoding?! Does that mean that the current hardware specs and components are more than able to handle "Dolby Atmos" just by updating the audio processing algorithm...hopefully Onkyo, Denon and Marantz users will be able to enjoy a free firmware upgrade? Hmmm... Maybe an XMC-1 firmware will be doable too...how that will interoperate with Dirac is anyones guess. Maybe for now I will make me one of these with small speakers everywhere hahahah Denon have had to double their processors to Quad units in order to be able to handle the requirements of both Audyssey and Atmos at the same time. Onkyo have dropped Audyssey in favour of their own AccuEQ which apparently requires less processing power, so that they can retain dual processors. So it seems unlikely that a firmware upgrade will provide anything like a proper Atmos experience IMO. |
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Post by emocustomer on Jun 24, 2014 7:32:43 GMT -5
I could try adding those "strap-ons" LOL!! Brilliant description of those Atmos speaker module things... |
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Post by Jim on Jun 24, 2014 7:45:08 GMT -5
from a local thread here in singapore It appears that after Dolby posted an official statement on Dolby Atmos for the home AV Receivers...Pioneer followed closely behind Onkyo releases an official statement that its EXISTING Elite-series of AV Receivers will RECEIVE A FIRMWARE UPGRADE to enable Dolby Atmos decoding?! Does that mean that the current hardware specs and components are more than able to handle "Dolby Atmos" just by updating the audio processing algorithm...hopefully Onkyo, Denon and Marantz users will be able to enjoy a free firmware upgrade? Hmmm... Maybe an XMC-1 firmware will be doable too...how that will interoperate with Dirac is anyones guess. Maybe for now I will make me one of these with small speakers everywhere hahahah Denon have had to double their processors to Quad units in order to be able to handle the requirements of both Audyssey and Atmos at the same time. Onkyo have dropped Audyssey in favour of their own AccuEQ which apparently requires less processing power, so that they can retain dual processors. So it seems unlikely that a firmware upgrade will provide anything like a proper Atmos experience IMO. You're making assumptions about the processing power (and how much is or is not already utilized) that the XMC-1 will ship with. My understanding is there is a dedicated card for Dirac, so there may be sufficient CPU available. |
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Post by chaosrv on Jun 24, 2014 7:50:48 GMT -5
Now, I personally am not all that excited about height speakers. In my current living room, I am planning to eventually install a large diffuser onto the ceiling, right where I would be expected to install height speakers. I could try adding those "strap-ons" that Onkyo is offering, but when the sound hits my diffuser, the "height" effect will be totally spoiled. The whole point of the diffuser is to make the sound reflected from it be perceived to be more omnidirectional. Either way, I wouldn't want to use any speakers other than the kind I already have. The "smaller" Hsu HB-1 is roughly 16"x8"x8", which is pretty big to be putting on my ceiling. Some might argue I should use smaller speakers, but that just won't fly for me. When Godzilla's "roar from above" rattles my chest, guess which speakers are being asked to produce 100 dB at 100 Hz? Whimpy woofers need not apply. Be careful with those strap ons. I hear they can be a real pain in the *bleep*. (oh like I wasn't the first one to think of that) |
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Post by emocustomer on Jun 24, 2014 7:52:36 GMT -5
Denon have had to double their processors to Quad units in order to be able to handle the requirements of both Audyssey and Atmos at the same time. Onkyo have dropped Audyssey in favour of their own AccuEQ which apparently requires less processing power, so that they can retain dual processors. So it seems unlikely that a firmware upgrade will provide anything like a proper Atmos experience IMO. You're making assumptions about the processing power (and how much is or is not already utilized) that the XMC-1 will ship with. My understanding is there is a dedicated card for Dirac, so there may be sufficient CPU available. Sorry - I was referring to the likelihood of an Onkyo FW upgrade to Atmos, not the XMC-1. The main barrier to Atmos on the XMC-1 would be that it is limited to 7 outputs. |
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Post by Topend on Jun 24, 2014 8:05:09 GMT -5
^ Unless the 7 outputs have some flexibility on where speakers can be located. My way of thinking is that the tradition position of the rear surrounds is not ideal as they are behind the listeners ears. What if the speakers could be positioned as a 5.2 setup with the 6th and 7th speakers positioned in the ceiling.
Dave.
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,273
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Post by KeithL on Jun 24, 2014 8:44:50 GMT -5
I think you may have part of that backwards - and the reality is to your advantage. A diffuser diffuses the sound - but it still has a fixed size, so most of the sound bouncing off of the diffuser will appear to "originate" at the diffuser. (In other words, the diffuser acts like a speaker, but one as large as the diffuser, and with a very diffuse radiating pattern.) Since an "Atmos speaker" which beams the height sound up and bounces it off the ceiling has no specific expectations about what the ceiling will be like, and the speakers themselves will be bound to vary in terms of directivity, it would be foolish for an Atmos disc to be mastered with the specific expectation of a specific ceiling height, composition, or amount of diffusion. In other words, if they mixed the disc to work "just so" with an eight-foot shiny ceiling, then it would probably work very poorly with a twelve foot sloped ceiling. A smart compromise would be to mix most Atmos discs to work well with a wide variety of ceiling materials and room dimensions. It would be foolish to try and bounce sounds off the ceiling with pinpoint precision, since they have no idea what your ceiling or your room will do with the result. It makes more sense to use the height channels for sound that is more diffuse, or at least that is not critical of location (like a helicopter that really only needs to sound like it's "overhead" - perhaps moving from front to back. If you have a large diffuser, and you have "ground based height speakers" that are reasonably directional, it would probably make sense to point them at the four corners of the diffuser (rather than point them all at the center). Beyond that, however, I would expect most releases to work pretty WELL with a diffuser. (If you wanted to avoid buying an actual diffuser, I suspect that sharp "textured stucco", or the ceiling paint with those little "foam texture beads" in it, would make an excellent approximation of a "low profile diffuser".) Now, I personally am not all that excited about height speakers. In my current living room, I am planning to eventually install a large diffuser onto the ceiling, right where I would be expected to install height speakers. I could try adding those "strap-ons" that Onkyo is offering, but when the sound hits my diffuser, the "height" effect will be totally spoiled. The whole point of the diffuser is to make the sound reflected from it be perceived to be more omnidirectional. Either way, I wouldn't want to use any speakers other than the kind I already have. The "smaller" Hsu HB-1 is roughly 16"x8"x8", which is pretty big to be putting on my ceiling. Some might argue I should use smaller speakers, but that just won't fly for me. When Godzilla's "roar from above" rattles my chest, guess which speakers are being asked to produce 100 dB at 100 Hz? Whimpy woofers need not apply. Be careful with those strap ons. I hear they can be a real pain in the *bleep*. (oh like I wasn't the first one to think of that) |
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