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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 9, 2014 18:16:40 GMT -5
I've asked this before, but of course, I can't find the thread...
I want to protect my home from lightning strikes and line surges. I don't need a UPS - just the mother of all surge suppressors. I want ALL appliances protected - both 120 and 240 volt. What makes & models are best?
Thanks - Boomzilla
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bootman
Emo VIPs 
Typing useless posts on internet forums....
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Post by bootman on Jul 9, 2014 19:06:03 GMT -5
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Post by Priapulus on Jul 9, 2014 21:28:56 GMT -5
I also have the Home Depot one. Easy to buy and install. But I also have surge protection (Panamax) on my expensive electronics; layers of redundant protection, because I'm paranoid...
?b
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Post by Jim on Jul 9, 2014 21:34:43 GMT -5
Another vote for the Eaton Ultra. I did lots of research and its specs looked the most appealing to me.
Didn't break the bank and easy to install.
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 10, 2014 6:15:05 GMT -5
Thank you. My understanding is that the more joules the protector can shunt, the better the protection? Response time is also important - faster is better? I may go with both of the recommended products, and the Leviton folks make a 3-phase unit (which I think I need to have both 120 & 240 V. protection)? www.amazon.com/Leviton-51120-3-3-Phase-Protector-208-Volt/dp/B000U3FZ34 |
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Post by cwmcobra on Jul 10, 2014 6:52:00 GMT -5
Eaton recommends that two stages of protection be used. The whole house unit wired into the circuit box and a plug in unit at each critical piece of electronics. I have the Eaton whole house unit on my breaker box and wall mounted surge protectors on all TVs, computers and audio equipment.
Cheers!
Chuck
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Post by sandbagger on Jul 10, 2014 11:38:42 GMT -5
Boom You dont need 3phase as each 120V line makes 240V, 3phase is completely different and is almost never seen in residential electrical. Although a buddy has it in his shop in his "garage" if you want to call it that, had to pay to have the extra drop put in from the transformer. I have a intermatic one for probably 10yrs now and havent had a problem www.smarthome.com/48716/Intermatic-IG1240RC3-Whole-House-Surge-Protector/p.aspx |
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Post by autiger on Jul 21, 2014 20:20:28 GMT -5
Boom You dont need 3phase as each 120V line makes 240V, 3phase is completely different and is almost never seen in residential electrical. Although a buddy has it in his shop in his "garage" if you want to call it that, had to pay to have the extra drop put in from the transformer. I have a intermatic one for probably 10yrs now and havent had a problem www.smarthome.com/48716/Intermatic-IG1240RC3-Whole-House-Surge-Protector/p.aspxCorrect. It would be very rare to have a residential home set up with 3 phase. Count the number of lines at the top of the nearest pole if only 2 lines then you do not have 3 phase. |
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Post by Jim on Jul 21, 2014 20:52:43 GMT -5
You would probably know if you had 3 phase service.
You can't get it in most residential properties - even if you do want it. Normally you'd need a good reason - and need to have commercial or industrial users nearby for the utility company to consider service. 3x the transformers isn't cheap.
I've heard some countries sometimes have 3 phase for residential. But very rarely US/Canada.
Counting poles might be tough. Near me - it's lots of 3 phase on poles - but theyre servicing separate underground runs to single phase transformers.
If everything is above ground - should be easier.
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Post by Jim on Jul 21, 2014 21:07:53 GMT -5
Single phase panel:  Black = Hot Wire = Neutral Red = Hot Black and hot feed breaker.  3 phases feed breaker, and there is a neutral (not shown) |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2014 21:47:05 GMT -5
www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCtFbOjX5tQ&list=PLGqsaKN6p_bC_EQRdX8rq_Ic1iqpA2BZCEMS ENERGY MIZER I understand this unit is available for home use now. I believe I read that Cowboy Stadium, Disney Arena, Amyway Warehouses, and many others use this unit. I'm not sure about the surge protection, but the unit is interesting in that that is takes "dirty spike ridden" power and runs it through a data bank of capacitors that stores, cleans up, and then releases clean and more efficient electric currents. It is touted to reduce electric usage, and increase the lifespan of electric components.
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Post by Jim on Jul 21, 2014 22:49:20 GMT -5
www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCtFbOjX5tQ&list=PLGqsaKN6p_bC_EQRdX8rq_Ic1iqpA2BZCEMS ENERGY MIZER I understand this unit is available for home use now. I believe I read that Cowboy Stadium, Disney Arena, Amyway Warehouses, and many others use this unit. I'm not sure about the surge protection, but the unit is interesting in that that is takes "dirty spike ridden" power and runs it through a data bank of capacitors that stores, cleans up, and then releases clean and more efficient electric currents. It is touted to reduce electric usage, and increase the lifespan of electric components. If it is what I think It is, it's a power factor correction device and nothing short of a complete fraud. Momentis & EnergyMizer (EMS) Scam--BEWARE!Power Factor Correction Scam ReviewYou can't simply stick a capacitor in a circuit, which is precisely what most of these residential devices do. They yield no improvement in power quality. You can sometimes improve power factor in a commercial system by using a properly engineered solution - but that only matters if you're being billed for kvars. Residential power isn't. Absolutely 0 savings. Even NIST debunked Power Factor devices: www.electriciantalk.com/f2/pf-correction-devices-again-12961/Be VERY wary of broad claims like the ones that EMS is making. If it actually reduced your electric bill, everyone would own one. |
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Post by jking on Jul 21, 2014 22:54:57 GMT -5
I've asked this before, but of course, I can't find the thread... I want to protect my home from lightning strikes and line surges. I don't need a UPS - just the mother of all surge suppressors. I want ALL appliances protected - both 120 and 240 volt. What makes & models are best? Thanks - Boomzilla With the way power is today you are really doing yourself (and you investment in equipment) a big favor by having a decent UPS for all your electronics. All our HT gear is very sensitive to power. Having the system being shut off and then turned back on several times over a short period of time is very hard on them. A good UPS with voltage regulation keeping the equipment from brownouts or over voltages are fairly cheap and in the long run keep your gear running longer and sounding better. My old 1500 VA APC NS died a few weeks ago, it was expensive when bought almost 10 years ago at over 250$. I ended up buying a cyber-power 1500 VA AVR for under 150$ this time. When hooked to a computer it will show how may times you have taken hits and it shows brownouts and over charges. It will even show a 1 second power outage which would not normally shut down the system and still sends that crappy power to the gear shortening the life of it. I don't like to spend money replacing good equipment when it is not needed. A 1500 VA is big enough to run your TV and PRE/PRO along with your other outboard gear , everything but your amps, with enough runtime that if someone hits a power pole and trips the power line breakers your power is not going on and off every few seconds. Spend little now save a lot later. As always this in JMHO you may not agree.
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Post by Jim on Jul 21, 2014 22:56:46 GMT -5
I've asked this before, but of course, I can't find the thread... I want to protect my home from lightning strikes and line surges. I don't need a UPS - just the mother of all surge suppressors. I want ALL appliances protected - both 120 and 240 volt. What makes & models are best? Thanks - Boomzilla With the way power is today you are really doing yourself (and you investment in equipment) a big favor by having a decent UPS for all your electronics. All our HT gear is very sensitive to power. Having the system being shut off and then turned back on several times over a short period of time is very hard on them. A good UPS with voltage regulation keeping the equipment from brownouts or over voltages are fairly cheap and in the long run keep your gear running longer and sounding better. My old 1500 VA APC NS died a few weeks ago, it was expensive when bought almost 10 years ago at over 250$. I ended up buying a cyber-power 1500 VA AVR for under 150$ this time. When hooked to a computer it will show how may times you have taken hits and it shows brownouts and over charges. It will even show a 1 second power outage which would not normally shut down the system and still sends that crappy power to the gear shortening the life of it. I don't like to spend money replacing good equipment when it is not needed. A 1500 VA is big enough to run your TV and PRE/PRO along with your other outboard gear , everything but your amps, with enough runtime that if someone hits a power pole and trips the power line breakers your power is not going on and off every few seconds. Spend little now save a lot later. As always this in JMHO you may not agree.
I used this approach for a long time until I got sick of buying batteries for UPSes. Batteries for multiple UPSes add up in a hurry! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2014 0:49:07 GMT -5
www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCtFbOjX5tQ&list=PLGqsaKN6p_bC_EQRdX8rq_Ic1iqpA2BZCEMS ENERGY MIZER I understand this unit is available for home use now. I believe I read that Cowboy Stadium, Disney Arena, Amyway Warehouses, and many others use this unit. I'm not sure about the surge protection, but the unit is interesting in that that is takes "dirty spike ridden" power and runs it through a data bank of capacitors that stores, cleans up, and then releases clean and more efficient electric currents. It is touted to reduce electric usage, and increase the lifespan of electric components. If it is what I think It is, it's a power factor correction device and nothing short of a complete fraud. Momentis & EnergyMizer (EMS) Scam--BEWARE!Power Factor Correction Scam ReviewYou can't simply stick a capacitor in a circuit, which is precisely what most of these residential devices do. They yield no improvement in power quality. You can sometimes improve power factor in a commercial system by using a properly engineered solution - but that only matters if you're being billed for kvars. Residential power isn't. Absolutely 0 savings. Even NIST debunked Power Factor devices: www.electriciantalk.com/f2/pf-correction-devices-again-12961/Be VERY wary of broad claims like the ones that EMS is making. If it actually reduced your electric bill, everyone would own one. I will be the first to admit that I do not know much about these devices. I am a pianotech at WKU, and I do know that the electrical engineers there studied, approved, and installed devices with the same technology as the EMS units on every building at WKU. I rely on the electricians to turn on the stage lighting at Van Meter Auditorium there. In a conversation with one of the electricians about these units he said a one year study was done, and it was determined that there was a savings of approximately $900,000 over 12 months. From what I understand this technology is not very old. Approximately 7 years maybe? Beech Bend Park (small amusement park) here uses about 45,000 per month electricity on average. According to Dallas the owner who did have EMS do the installs the savings has averaged about 12% per year. It does seem perplexing especially if these fraud claims are coming from other engineers? It sounds like you are informed about this technology, but doesn't it seem strange to you that the engineers from Amway, Disney, Cowboy Stadium, WKU etc., have all misunderstood the technology and bought into bogus equipment? I am in no way trying to be argumentative.....just trying to make an observation. |
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Post by richardrc on Jul 22, 2014 3:11:44 GMT -5
Although not designed for you country the principles are the same. www.novaris.com.au/power/index.shtmlNothing will save you from a direct lightning strike. Power Factor Correction devices will be of no benefit to the consumer in a residential application. Where you have lots of reactive loads ie large motors, the power company will charge you for power factor as their I2R losses will be bigger not to mention the harmonic power line distortion you will cause from the out of phase power being fed back into the grid. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 22, 2014 5:05:16 GMT -5
I am NOT looking for power conditioning. I want spike & surge suppression. Once the power is in the house, I have a variety of Monster products that are sufficient for delicate electronics, a variety of APS UPCs that are sufficient for my computers, and a dreadnaught sized 1:1 transformer for the power amplifiers.
I realize that a direct strike is impossible to guard against. What is far more likely for me, though, is line strikes. If lightning hits the utility pole or transformer, I want the voltage shunted to ground before it enters my house.
Thanks - Boom
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Post by Jim on Jul 22, 2014 8:28:03 GMT -5
]I will be the first to admit that I do not know much about these devices. I am a pianotech at WKU, and I do know that the electrical engineers there studied, approved, and installed devices with the same technology as the EMS units on every building at WKU. I rely on the electricians to turn on the stage lighting at Van Meter Auditorium there. In a conversation with one of the electricians about these units he said a one year study was done, and it was determined that there was a savings of approximately $900,000 over 12 months. From what I understand this technology is not very old. Approximately 7 years maybe? Beech Bend Park (small amusement park) here uses about 45,000 per month electricity on average. According to Dallas the owner who did have EMS do the installs the savings has averaged about 12% per year. It does seem perplexing especially if these fraud claims are coming from other engineers? It sounds like you are informed about this technology, but doesn't it seem strange to you that the engineers from Amway, Disney, Cowboy Stadium, WKU etc., have all misunderstood the technology and bought into bogus equipment? I am in no way trying to be argumentative.....just trying to make an observation. I suspect, and I'm just saying this because I don't know much about EMS -- is that the implementation in *commercial* environments is a legitimate (good) implementation. It doesn't realistically do much to improve the quality of the power, but it can improve the power factor (PF). That matters for people who pay for reactive power (kvar). It's wasted power. So yes - it can save them money. If they have lots of motors and the like - their power factor can be poor (and high kvar). Residential meters don't measure kvar, and people aren't billed for it. Commercial user's meters normally do measure kvar and PF, and have to pay something for the "wasted" power. Power Factor and reactive power can make your brain hurt, but there are lots of good pages out there. It's not that power factor correction is fraudulent, it's that in a residence, you're fixing a problem that you were never billed for to begin with. Does that make sense? The claim that they will save you money by fixing something that won't save you money is the fraud.In a commercial setting, 3 phase power, etc - there can be some benefit. They bills do reflect wasted power. I think this video is decent: And this has some good info: www.progress-energy.com/assets/www/docs/business/power-factor-how-effects-bill.pdfSorry Boom, don't mean to go too far OT.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2014 9:03:53 GMT -5
Thanks Jim....that does make a lot more sense. Glenn, let us know what path you decide on!
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Post by jking on Jul 22, 2014 12:03:34 GMT -5
If it is what I think It is, it's a power factor correction device and nothing short of a complete fraud. Momentis & EnergyMizer (EMS) Scam--BEWARE!Power Factor Correction Scam ReviewYou can't simply stick a capacitor in a circuit, which is precisely what most of these residential devices do. They yield no improvement in power quality. You can sometimes improve power factor in a commercial system by using a properly engineered solution - but that only matters if you're being billed for kvars. Residential power isn't. Absolutely 0 savings. Even NIST debunked Power Factor devices: www.electriciantalk.com/f2/pf-correction-devices-again-12961/Be VERY wary of broad claims like the ones that EMS is making. If it actually reduced your electric bill, everyone would own one. I will be the first to admit that I do not know much about these devices. I am a pianotech at WKU, and I do know that the electrical engineers there studied, approved, and installed devices with the same technology as the EMS units on every building at WKU. I rely on the electricians to turn on the stage lighting at Van Meter Auditorium there. In a conversation with one of the electricians about these units he said a one year study was done, and it was determined that there was a savings of approximately $900,000 over 12 months. From what I understand this technology is not very old. Approximately 7 years maybe? Beech Bend Park (small amusement park) here uses about 45,000 per month electricity on average. According to Dallas the owner who did have EMS do the installs the savings has averaged about 12% per year. It does seem perplexing especially if these fraud claims are coming from other engineers? It sounds like you are informed about this technology, but doesn't it seem strange to you that the engineers from Amway, Disney, Cowboy Stadium, WKU etc., have all misunderstood the technology and bought into bogus equipment? I am in no way trying to be argumentative.....just trying to make an observation. I have 3 UPS units 2 on various computers and outboard gear and 1 on my HT gear. Even the 1500 VA only takes a 15$ battery every 5-6 years. and the little 500 VA are a little even cheaper. Both of the 500s were FREE, and I got them from staples new just by watching for sales. This is cheap Ins. The warrenty on them pays my 1000$ deductible on an insurance claim if it is ever needed. As far as whole house surge protection I do not use it. But if a 50$ breaker box surge protector saves a 1000$ refridge or well pump then they are of use. As far as company's like Monster cable selling 400$ surge protectors with fancy claims IMO that is a waste. Sorry I do not in anyway disrespect people that buy them ,they have to trust that a big company like that is telling them the truth. Just like buying 100 $ cables will make your system sound better. You are better off spending your money on a better piece of equipment. Good well designed equipment is a much better investment. But this is off the subject sorry. I just hate to see people being sold stuff they do not need. Do not believe the Lie...
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