XPR-5 vs Outlaw 7700/7900

[willrich47]

** 03/02/2015 PLEASE READ ALL THE WAY TO MY LAST POST **

Hey there, I'm in the final stages of decision making and am about to purchase a either an XPR-5 or an Outlaw 7700 or 7900 depending on a sale.  

I'd like to hear from someone who has heard an Outlaw and an Emotiva to comment.  Or even a few words if you own an XPR-5. 

 I am currently previewing a Marantz MM8077, which is clearly a step up from the Emotiva Fusion 8100 I am currently using.  I will probably send that back tomorrow.  Overall I'd say I am happy with the Marantz: the bass is more pronounced and punchy, and the highs more separated than the 8100.  There is also a special feel about the sound that I am having difficulty articulating; perhaps it is that quality of being 'warm' quality that everyone talks about.  Definitely easy to listen to.  But then again the 8100 is a receiver, not a dedicated amp.

 One of my main gripes with the Marantz though is that it seems to be engineered to just marginally produce the specs it advertises.  For example, it is a 150 wpc, all channels driven, amp.  But for the price it is 'only' sporting a 1050 v/amp transformer and is not rated to drive 4 ohm speakers.  So while it is sufficient for my needs now, who knows in 10 years.  Since amps can literally go 20+ years, I am looking for one that I can hang onto for a bit, and not be dying to upgrade with something else in 5 years.  I understand processors come and go, but amps don't change nearly as often.

That being said, the marketing dept at Outlaw focuses on a slightly different feature set than Emotiva.  I am specifically thinking of slew rate and balanced amp topography; and I am already well aware of the WPC difference.  The Outlaws have been professionally reviewed, so there is some info on them.   The XPR-5 hasn't been to my knowledge.  

I am driving Klipsch speakers, and although I know that they are ridiculously easy to drive, I think that there is something to be said about having a large power reservoir.  Aside from playing really really loud ;-)

Thanks! 



 

[Deleted]

Willrich47, welcome to the Emotiva lounge!

Sorry, I'm from the camp that says another's perception of how an SS amp sounds in their room with their speakers is of little help to you in your room with your speakers.  Any comparison of two amps is only relevant if they are in the same room at the same time, etc, etc.  IMO, the best bet is to go with the specs and facts that point to your best compromise and then do a 30 day in home test.

However, I would quickly drop the Marantz 8077 from consideration.  Tested out by S&V with all 7 channels driven at only 109 watts/8 ohms/0.1 %.  There is no talk about power into 4 ohms and for very good reasons.  Don't IMO buy the hype on these newer low power into 8 ohms but not 4 ohms/name brand amps, they are skimping and cutting corners (same trick they have been pulling in their AVR's for some time).  This not your father's Marantz quality, sound or build wise.  39 lbs and $2400, good grief, not even in the same ball park as the monster amps you mention from Emo and Outlaw.  To my way of thinking the 8077 is no 20 year amp and maybe barely acceptable if you have a need for lots of power in a large room for highly dynamic sources..  What if you decided to buy new speakers down the road and they require strong power into 4 ohms?  I presume the 7 channels is a must for you.  You might be better off with the Emotiva UPA-700 with very slightly lower power but at least stable into 4 ohms (80 watts/8 ohms ...... 100 watts/8 ohms ..... don't be fooled by the huge price difference ..... there is a good reason for that).  If you ended up with the 8077 and then decided to sell it you would only realize a small fraction of what you paid for it.  Conversely with an Emo amp, they hold a very high resale value for years.

Now we are talking about the Emo XPR-5.  That is quite a jump in power to say the least.  Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of having lots of extra dynamic power on hand when needed.  A lot of how much power you need depends on your room size, sound deadening, loudness demands, etc (which we have no info).  

Have you considered going with the Emo XPA-5 and adding for the additional 2 channels if need either the XPA-5/XPA-200 combo, $1198.40, or maybe the XPA-2/XPA-5 combo, $1518.40.  These are prices with E-Club discount thru July.  Either of these combo's would blow the 8077 to the next galaxy.  The XPR-5 would be the ultimate but maybe not even needed in your case.  If you do feel you need that power then the XPR-5 is the one,  plus two extra channels if also needed.  I own an excellent Outlaw product, but feel the Emo amps which I own are a better price/performance value due to the different business factory to buyer route.

Some food for thought.  


   

[jevans64]

I think the differences in the XPR-5 and the Outlaw 7900 are so little that it will really come down to whether you want your amp assembled in America or China. Outlaw amps are actually made-to-order by ATI in California. The ATI AT3007 is the equivalent of the Outlaw 7900. ATI has also just released a reference series line of amplifiers under the AT6000 model. The ATI amps also carry a 7-year warranty.

I chose the XPR-5 because of price ( less than half the cost of the 7900 ) and convenience of having the unit serviced, if I ever need it. I don't trust shipping services to handle something like this properly. I can simply load the amp in my car and drive north for an hour to Emo HQ. However, with Atmos around the corner, I am kind-of wishing I had a 7-channel amp now.

[willrich47]

Thanks for the bit of input. I am going with the 7900.

[willrich47]

I wanted to check in an give you guys "the rest of the story..."

I owned the Outlaw 7900 for about a month and it sounded great.  Just like you'd expect from a big solid state amplifier, then one day my system had a 60 Hz hum in it.  I trouble shot for a couple of days and decided that it was the 7900.  The 7900 would produce a 60 hz hum that was LOUD, with just one speaker attached when it was plugged into the wall with nothing else in the house turned on.

What happened next was the worst customer experience I've ever had with any company.  Outlaw customer service began by blaming my RCA cables, then my Emotiva Receiver, then "the system" before finally telling me that they thought I was just lying.  I shipped the amplifier back to the factory twice and was told that it wasn't covered under the five year warranty and that the 60 Hz hum was normal.  I called the company who manufactures for Outlaw, ATI.  ATI tech support told me that their amplifiers on which the 7900 is based definitely DO NOT have a 60 hz hum as part of their normal operation.  In short, I've got about 7 pages of single spaced type detailing all of the troubleshooting I did on this amp.

Finally after 3 months of fighting with Outlaw Customer Service, I contacted an attorney.  My attorney suggested a couple of courses of action, but the one that finally worked was emailing one of the company's founders, Peter Tribeman.  After I sent the email to him, I was promptly refunded and have never looked back.

I remembered this forum and wanted to make very sure that my posts did not influence anyone to buy from Outlaw.  You should run, not walk, away from the company.  

I rolled my refund from the Outlaw amplifier into a Decware Torii MK IV tube amplifier and have been living happily ever since.  Oddly enough, since I replaced the Outlaw Amplifier, the "ground loop" is gone...strange.  Although I ultimately chose not to use an Emotiva amplifier, I use the Fusion 8100 on a regular basis and plan to purchase an XMC-1 this year.  I've heard 3 of Emotiva Amplifiers, and they have been pretty good, but my experience with Emotiva Customer Service has been better.  I don't think I will ever have the issues that I had with Outlaw with Emotiva, and I don't think you will either.  Take it for what its worth.

[creimes]

Sorry to hear about your troubles but I'm glad it worked out finally and you have a system you can listen to and enjoy.

Chad