Tube Newb

[kse]

Newbie to tube-anything and want to get my feet wet. I am considering starting out by playing with putting one between my ERC-1 and XSP-1. To accomplish this would I just be looking for an in-line tube buffer, or......?

Any other suggestions are welcome. Also, after we decide what I should be doing here, I would also be open to recommendations.

Thanks.

**Edit**

Thinking about something like this:
www.ebay.ca/itm/141385818295%20

Not necessarily this one, but I think this is what I am talking about.

[pedrocols]

Personally, I would just get a tube preamp. Do it right the first time!

[kse]

Aug 31, 2014 19:35:56 GMT -5 pedrocols said:

Personally, I would just get a tube preamp. Do it right the first time!

I don't want to remove my XSP-1 from the chain, nor will I want to use tube all the time. Could I just ad a tube preamp ahead of my XSP-1, or would this be redundant?

[pedrocols]

You can probably find a cheap used tube preamp to experiment with. You will potentially going to want to listen to tubes all the time for two channel.

[pedrocols]

Tubes are not for everyone but they are definitely the cup of tea for my ears...!

[kse]

Aug 31, 2014 19:44:21 GMT -5 pedrocols said:

Tubes are not for everyone...!

Exactly...which is why I want to try/integrate them relatively easily and inexpensively.

[Priapulus]

> I don't want to remove my XSP-1 from the chain, nor will I want to use tube all the time. Could I just ad a tube preamp ahead of my XSP-1, or would this be redundant?

I'd put it in the processor loop of the XSP-1. The you can put it in and out of circuit at the push of a button. I'm thinking of installing my guitar fuzzbox in the processor loop, to simulate really old tube amplifiers.

Sincerely
/b

[harri009]

I didn't like tubes at all until I bought a really nice tube pre. I tried the cheaper stuff and it ruined the sound. Rolled off highs, loose everything. The calypso, now Janus are awesome. Everything is as good as before but the depth and texture to the sound are WAY better than anything I have tried. The pass XP20 I had felt like it was more detailed but I think that was a side product of the sound being more forward. I won't be getting away from the Janus for a while.

By the way I did read you op. Since you sound pretty set on buying a cheaper tube buffer I would suggest you don't judge tubes purely on your first findings.

[audiobill]

It's like other things - cheap SS will sound like cheap SS, and a cheap tube component will sound like a cheap tube component.

Why not just audition good stuff at a dealer and think about the tradeoffs for you......?

For some of us, tubes rule, for others not so much.

But quality is quality.

[jmasterj]

Hi kse,

I thought I'd chime in here since I've owned three tube buffers since I brought my first one back in 2002. It was a Music Fidelity X-10v3. I like you was interested in exploring tube sound without spending a lot of money. At that time I had a home theater system that was anchored with a Sony ES receiver. The sound was decent but something was missing. So I started by adding more power for the main speakers I brought a Carver TFM-35 power amp and fed the main speakers from it. The sound was better but something was still missing. I was using a Pioneer Elite DVD player, and a Phillips up sampling DVD player as the source with Polk speakers all around, but I still wasn't getting the sound I wanted. It was like I was listening to very familiar music but it didn't sound right. I inserted the tube buffer between the receiver pre-outs and the carver and the sound seemed to open up. Music from my CD's made since again they sounded more musical to me.

As life sometimes does I fell on difficulties and had to relocate I left my entire system in storage and ended up loosing everything. So with my next system which I decided would be two channel I purchased a Yaqin CD-1 tube buffer because the MF X-10v3s was no longer available. It was inserted between my Sony DVD player and my Outlaw Audio RR-2150 receiver it brought the dvd player to life. I also made a change to Magnepan speakers starting with MMG's and upgrading to MG QR-12's. It was a good system right up until it was stolen.

Hope I'm not boring you. This leads me up to my current system. Because I like the tube sound I decided to purchase a Bada DC-222 Hybrid Tube Integrated Amp. Tube preamp mated to a solid state power amp. I upgraded from the stock tubes when I brought it. I was introduced to Emotiva at that time and purchased a ERC-1 and a Grant Fidelity B-283 tube buffer to go between the CD player and DC-222 sort of creating my own version of a hybrid tube CD player another pair of MMG's and I love the combo.

Since then I've also purchased a Yaqin MC-30L Tube Amp it's 50 watts a channel with 25 watts a channel in class-A which I love. I also purchased pair of XPA-100 mono blocks. I purchased a Xiang Sheng 728A tube pre amp for around $600.00 to mate with them. I upgraded the preamp tubes so I'm in  for a total cost of about $700.00 for the preamp. I've added a pair of Tekton Designs M-Lore speakers, and a pair of JBL ES-30 bookshelf speakers to the equipment. Three different power configurations, and three different speaker systems. I love them all. Each system has tubes, and the tube buffer is always in the system.

In closing I'd like to add this. In my opinion I think you should get the Yaqin tube buffer it's a relatively inexpensive way to experiment with tube sound. I wont tell you what to expect because I want you to form your own opinion about how it sounds to you. Times are changing, you can find really good sounding tube equipment at a reasonable price. I purchased my Yaqin MC-30L for just under $700.00 with upgraded power tubes. I saw it here on the forum so I did what you're doing I reached out to the member who owned one. That same person also purchased a different tube integrated amp that cost four times what the Yaqin MC-30L cost so I asked him was there a big difference between the two. He told me the sound was really close. Last time I checked he still had the Yaqin also. Let us know what you decide to do. I'm here if you have anymore questions. Hope this was helpful good luck j.       

[kse]

^^^ jmasterj, Thanks so much for reading my OP and actually answering my questions. Very well thought out and detailed response. Thanks again.

[jmasterj]

My pleasure, and just a note. I was going to purchase another Yaqin tube buffer the one you're looking at if I'm not mistaken. I had placed the order from Pacific Valve and Electric which is where I got the Bada DC-222 from they said the item was in stock I think it was around $219.00 at that time. Well I placed the order and then was informed the item was not in stock it would be three or four weeks. I canceled the order and purchased the Grant Fidelity B-283 buffer for $179.00 instead that's the only reason I didn't get another Yaqin.

[Deleted]

jmasterj, I see you have (or had) the Xiang Sheng 728A tube preamp. How did it sound and hold up for you as a preamp for the XPA-100s? I have UPA-1s and am looking for an inexpensive tube pre to feed analog (from TT and TV and maybe vintage tuner)to the single analog input on my DC-1. Granted I could do this with a $20 source switch, but I'd like to experiment with tubes also. I'm seeing the Xiang Sheng priced as low as $229 new so the price is right. Would you get another if need be at this price? Thanks in advance.

[bub]

Thanks Matt. You have the ability to ask questions I'm too arrogant to ask and you have 100x my knowledge.
Prior to coming here I had been discussing with Ray ( oc123 on audiogon ) the merits of the mc-30l. He was waiting on a shipment. In the interim I found Emotiva . ( check my registration date. A couple of hours after the announcement of the liquidation of Sherbourn..) I grabbed a PA-7 and even though I'm very happy with it ( have since bought a second ) I wonder what gear I would have today if Ray had inventory..
Some where along the line you had posted about the pre-1 .. I had already acquired a cd-1 . I remember pm'ing you and asking about it and also if you would keep an eye open for a second one if you found them.
This is where this forum separates itself from other forums. Matt ( kse) found a couple while I was away at bike week and took it upon himself to buy 2. Took a couple of days for me to respond to his messages and when I did all he needed to know was do I want it and what was my address.
It was on it's way before any money changed hands. This all occurred because of one or two messages.
Talk about having restored faith in mankind. Matt is a living example of it.
For that I thank you. Now I'm interested in seeing where you go with this. Please keep us all informed
And thanks also to jmasterj. Very informative response ..

[bub]

Good luck finding a Xiang Sheng 728a for $229. The best I've found is around $400 depending on silver or black. You might need to check out delivery cost. And if you find one at that price please post. Thanks

[novisnick]

Sept 1, 2014 11:48:09 GMT -5 bub said:

Good luck finding a Xiang Sheng 728a for $229. The best I've found is around $400 depending on silver or black. You might need to check out delivery cost. And if you find one at that price please post. Thanks

Didn't I see the delivery cost at about $229.00?

[bub]

Hey Nick. I've seen between 95 and $127 . Depending on color.. Combined a little over 4 regardless of color. Price for the 728a is around 300 give or take 10 without shipping..

[audiobill]

Several Audio Research used preamps at Audiogon for only $600-$700.

Then, resell for all of your purchase price if not for you...........

[Deleted]

Yes, the XS 728A at $229 was w/o shipping. With free shipping (airmail) it's $380, still a good price IMO if the quality is there, but about the most I would go for a tube 'experiment'.

[jmasterj]

Hi cecilg,

You guys sent me scrambling for receipts and info. I was wrong about my pricing for the Xaing Sheng 728A pre amp so here is the correct info. I do still own the unit. It is the only preamp I've ever used with my XPA-100 mono blocks. I purchased it from Hi-End on9mart.com which is in China. the cost was $373.00 with free shipping. I upgraded two pair of the six vacuum tubes. I purchased two JJ ECC81 12AT7 Gold Pin tubes @ $39.90 and purchased two JJ ECC802 Hi-Performance 12AU7 Gold Pin tubes @ $49.90. The other set of tubes in the preamp only come from China so there was no upgrade available for them. So basically I spent around $475.00 for the tube preamp.

This is the newest system I purchased I got the XPA-100's one at a time during the Emotiva Christmas sale then in January I purchased the Xaing Sheng 728A pre amp. I didn't get to hear this system until February. Yes I would buy it again in answer to your question. When I first received the preamp I was not happy with the sound after listening to the Bada DC-222 with upgraded tubes for almost 4 years, then the Yaqin MC-30L for several months, I felt the Xiang Sheng XPA-100 combo felt cold. After about three weeks the change was minimal. That's why I decided to roll the tubes in the preamp. The addition of the new tubes warmed up the sound. To be honest the 728A pre with the XPA-100 combo sounds more like solid state equipment than it does tube. In other words it is the least tube sounding of my three systems to me. Which is not necessarily a bad thing. I believe this system has the most headroom of the three, and it is definitely the most powerful of the three, and it is the most expensive to operate of the three.  Which is while it's not in operation right now.

I've only spent about a month or two listening to this set up switching in the different sets of speakers. I'm cheap, I live in Las Vegas and it's hot here 9 months of the year so my air conditioner is on full blast with these 100+ degree days. Right now while my electric bills are well over $100 a month, it's cheaper to use one integrated amp either the BADA, or the YAQIN than it is to power two amps and a preamp so I'll switch back over to this power configuration soon as the weather cools off.

I've been trying to get my friend "snacker" from here on the forum over to listen to this set up and the new bookshelf speakers also. I'm very interested in hearing his opinion but alas, he has been very busy. Maybe one day soon he can give his opinion. So if you're looking for a cheap tube preamp this is a nice piece of equipment. You should figure in rolling the stock tubes, and consider there is no remote so you'll be getting up to adjust the volume. A nice addition is the tone controls I play around with them depending on what I'm listening to and that adds to the fun. So yes I'd buy it again. I have no intensions of selling it.