Lonnie
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Post by Lonnie on Dec 13, 2014 19:23:06 GMT -5
Please refer to hereYou can see it is for all practical purposes dead on, which collaborates what we have observed in the lab and theatre at the office. Lonnie So in your experience the level of discrepency between the Dirac graph and the real in room response in that thread are typical of what we would see in most rooms (minimal but measurable)? How much did that discrepency vary between different runs, different rooms, speakers, etc? Roughly +/- 3db which in the realm of speakers is pretty much the same as saying dead on. Lonnie
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Post by rswood on Dec 13, 2014 21:11:46 GMT -5
Do you need to place the mic at ear level for all test positions? or do you have to alter the height? Thanks! Yes, you have to alter the height to avoid to eventually incur into overcorrection... I hope this image can help, sorry for the poor quality of the drawing Only the first measurement at the sweet spot (the red dot) should be at ear level... Ciao, Flavio I like this illustration from Flavio, I have quite a bit of experience with all of the iterations of Audyssey, and while the set up for the mike is somewhat similar there are som variance which begs a few questions for setup if someone can help. 1. How far from ear level on the vertical plane should the mic be placed? This is the biggest difference from audyssey setup. 2. Audyssey recommended that the mic shouldent be to close to an object or seatback Flavio's illustration shows the mic very Close to the arm of the chair, Is this going to cause problems from early reflections, is there a restriction or recommendation. on how close to any surface the mic can be? 3. It appears that the first measurement is in the middle but forward from where the head would be if sitting down is this . correct,
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Post by Dan Laufman on Dec 13, 2014 22:42:45 GMT -5
Will the version of Dirac in the XMC-1 allow you to set the frequency range it equalizes? Many reviewers indicate equalizing the lower frequencies, say from 20Hz to 500Hz or 20Hz to to 250Hz, gives a better result than the entire frequency range. The Anthem receivers with their ARC EQ can do that. Many reviewers are not using Dirac...
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edrummereasye
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Post by edrummereasye on Dec 13, 2014 23:02:39 GMT -5
In the Setup menu, you should set it up as a dual mono configuration. The Dirac software will simply test each one separately and derive the appropriate results for each sub. Also, having dual subs stacked on top of each other (as some do) should not pose any issues. Hmm, so no way to eq the summed response? That's unfortunate if that's the case. It seems like in dual mono mode it should eq the summed response and in stereo mode treat them as separate. I guess I can just keep using a y splitter like I do on the UMC and but I really wanted to take advantage of those dual sub outs. If anyone has dual Subs in mono configuration and tries it both ways please share your results. I'm pretty confident you will get better results EQing the summed response since that's what your ears get. This would be a nice option in the upgraded version. I've been watching in utter amazement as the meaning of "on the fly" has been dissected (when it appeared in a blurb that ended with "...curve" (singular), and yet this topic hasn't come up at all. That said, somewhere in all this mess, this thread, another thread, not sure, I saw that Dirac works with "speaker groups". With the included version, the groups are fixed, and I don't know if multiple subs are placed in one group or not. With the $99 upgrade, however, the user can apparently drag-and-drop to place speakers in the same group, in which case they'll be EQ'd together. At least, that was my understanding, and it seemed pretty straightforward, so I'm fairly confident that's correct (jinx).
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Post by fbczar on Dec 13, 2014 23:26:28 GMT -5
Will the version of Dirac in the XMC-1 allow you to set the frequency range it equalizes? Many reviewers indicate equalizing the lower frequencies, say from 20Hz to 500Hz or 20Hz to to 250Hz, gives a better result than the entire frequency range. The Anthem receivers with their ARC EQ can do that. Many reviewers are not using Dirac... Dan, So it is your experience that Dirac should be allowed to EQ from the Lowest to highest possible frequencies? Is this because Dirac operates in the time domain where other EQ systems do not? Thanks.
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Lonnie
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Post by Lonnie on Dec 13, 2014 23:52:56 GMT -5
Dirac does test and setup each subwoofer separately.
Whether they are in dual mono or stereo mode, it still test them separately.
Lonnie
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novisnick
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Post by novisnick on Dec 14, 2014 0:06:05 GMT -5
Dirac does test and setup each subwoofer separately. Whether they are in dual mono or stereo mode, it still test them separately. Lonnie Now that's thinking outside and around the BOX, I Like It!!!!!!
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Post by Mike Ronesia on Dec 14, 2014 0:13:31 GMT -5
Dirac does test and setup each subwoofer separately. Whether they are in dual mono or stereo mode, it still test them separately. Lonnie By separately you mean each feed out of the XMC-1, right? So if you Y four subs, it would do two at a time. This is good and should help me tame them. For me, subs seem to be the hardest to dial in properly. I will most likely just use two anyway.
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Post by nickwin on Dec 14, 2014 0:26:56 GMT -5
Dirac does test and setup each subwoofer separately. Whether they are in dual mono or stereo mode, it still test them separately. Lonnie Was this by choice or did it have to be that way for some other reason? I've always thought I got better final results measuring and EQing the summed response vs doing it separate. With Dirac do you think I will get better results doing them saparete than using a y splitter to hook them to the same output and measure the summed response?
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Post by rswood on Dec 14, 2014 1:17:05 GMT -5
Hmm, so no way to eq the summed response? That's unfortunate if that's the case. It seems like in dual mono mode it should eq the summed response and in stereo mode treat them as separate. I guess I can just keep using a y splitter like I do on the UMC and but I really wanted to take advantage of those dual sub outs. If anyone has dual Subs in mono configuration and tries it both ways please share your results. I'm pretty confident you will get better results EQing the summed response since that's what your ears get. This would be a nice option in the upgraded version. I've been watching in utter amazement as the meaning of "on the fly" has been dissected (when it appeared in a blurb that ended with "...curve" (singular), and yet this topic hasn't come up at all. That said, somewhere in all this mess, this thread, another thread, not sure, I saw that Dirac works with "speaker groups". With the included version, the groups are fixed, and I don't know if multiple subs are placed in one group or not. With the $99 upgrade, however, the user can apparently drag-and-drop to place speakers in the same group, in which case they'll be EQ'd together. At least, that was my understanding, and it seemed pretty straightforward, so I'm fairly confident that's correct (jinx). The lack of Dual Mono Sub summation is not new and has been discussed ad nauseam, just like on the fly, I could never get a good answer to what Dual Mono IS, if you can't EQ them together. good luck trying to get that explained. I gave up.
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edrummereasye
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Post by edrummereasye on Dec 14, 2014 2:35:02 GMT -5
I've been watching in utter amazement as the meaning of "on the fly" has been dissected (when it appeared in a blurb that ended with "...curve" (singular), and yet this topic hasn't come up at all. That said, somewhere in all this mess, this thread, another thread, not sure, I saw that Dirac works with "speaker groups". With the included version, the groups are fixed, and I don't know if multiple subs are placed in one group or not. With the $99 upgrade, however, the user can apparently drag-and-drop to place speakers in the same group, in which case they'll be EQ'd together. At least, that was my understanding, and it seemed pretty straightforward, so I'm fairly confident that's correct (jinx). The lack of Dual Mono Sub summation is not new and has been discussed ad nauseam, just like on the fly, I could never get a good answer to what Dual Mono IS, if you can't EQ them together. good luck trying to get that explained. I gave up. And the conclusion of that discussion was: (1) a lot of us are hoping that a future firmware release will give us the option of EQing the summed response (via the PEQs); and (2) separately from that, there was a question as to whether Dirac would or could be made to operate on the summed response. At this point, I would think that question would've surfaced again, especially since "on the fly" has been discussed ad nauseous as well. What "dual mono" _should_ be, is LFE + anything below the crossovers, from all speakers that are set to "SMALL", is combined into a "sub" signal, and that signal is then fed to both subs. I'm sure that's been posted, I would've thought that it's in the manual as well, though I haven't RTFM in a while now, or at all for the new version.
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Post by socketman on Dec 14, 2014 2:56:00 GMT -5
The lack of Dual Mono Sub summation is not new and has been discussed ad nauseam, just like on the fly, I could never get a good answer to what Dual Mono IS, if you can't EQ them together. good luck trying to get that explained. I gave up. And the conclusion of that discussion was: (1) a lot of us are hoping that a future firmware release will give us the option of EQing the summed response (via the PEQs); and (2) separately from that, there was a question as to whether Dirac would or could be made to operate on the summed response. At this point, I would think that question would've surfaced again, especially since "on the fly" has been discussed ad nauseous as well. What "dual mono" _should_ be, is LFE + anything below the crossovers, from all speakers that are set to "SMALL", is combined into a "sub" signal, and that signal is then fed to both subs. I'm sure that's been posted, I would've thought that it's in the manual as well, though I haven't RTFM in a while now, or at all for the new version. Has this ever been commented on by anyone from EMo. In my bedroom system I have a Denon 3311 that I use Audyssey for the main speakers and then I use a DSPeaker to equalize the dual 8" subs which I like very well. The instructions for the DSPeaker recommends summed mono though it does stereo subs.What I like about it the most is it does its work after the bass management. I am hoping dirac will work in the same manner though I cant seem to find a solid answer.
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Post by urwi on Dec 14, 2014 3:19:54 GMT -5
Thanks but that link shows only an average of multiple measurements. Humans don't have multiple ears at exactly the same locations where the mic was So how close is Dirac? Do you know? Please refer to hereYou can see it is for all practical purposes dead on, which collaborates what we have observed in the lab and theatre at the office. Lonnie
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Post by urwi on Dec 14, 2014 3:34:22 GMT -5
Yes, REW could be used. Measure all points where the mic was placed for Dirac. Also measure points in between because it doesn't help to improve just a few points in expense of making other locations worse. I thought it looked to good to be true. Is there a way to view a measured response after Dirac? Someone is going to have to get on REW and post some real graphs
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Post by rogersch on Dec 14, 2014 4:17:15 GMT -5
Yes, REW could be used. Measure all points where the mic was placed for Dirac. Also measure points in between because it doesn't help to improve just a few points in expense of making other locations worse. I thought it looked to good to be true. Is there a way to view a measured response after Dirac? Someone is going to have to get on REW and post some real graphs urwi: Feel free to do all the measurements and post them here in this thread.
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Post by urwi on Dec 14, 2014 5:14:03 GMT -5
Will do if you send me your XMC-1 Yes, REW could be used. Measure all points where the mic was placed for Dirac. Also measure points in between because it doesn't help to improve just a few points in expense of making other locations worse. urwi: Feel free to do all the measurements and post them here in this thread.
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Post by rogersch on Dec 14, 2014 6:44:33 GMT -5
Will do if you send me your XMC-1 urwi: Feel free to do all the measurements and post them here in this thread. Lol
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Dec 14, 2014 9:51:58 GMT -5
I finally got the chance to try Dirac out last night with no grand kids and a tired wife who was exhausted after helping with inventory yesterday and decided to turn in. Anyway the setup and measuring process couldn't have been easier taking only a bit of time following some very simple instruction. I did read the manual while waiting for my activation code but I wouldn't have had any trouble because everything you need to know is displayed on the right side of the screen. Filter creation and subsequent download to the XMC went very smoothly without the slightest glitch along the entire process. I was way to tired to listen critically last night so I'm doing that this morning with a fresh cup of black coffee. I chose Joe Bonamassa Live at the Vienna Opera House which is an all acoustic performance that is recorded very well and coded in DTS MA and makes for some nice Sunday morning entertainment and I know it very well. There is a marked improvement in detail and clarity with better separation of the individual instruments when compared to what I was able to get using the built in PEQ in the XMC's other speaker presets. The bass, however, seemed a bit thin to me but I'm used to a little more bass than what is in the standard Dirac curve. A quick on-the-fly adjustment of 4dB @ 60Hz and it's right back to where I like it. The overall level is down a bit and only requires a little more volume than I'm used to having the XMC set to. About 5dB more seems about right to me. I still have to listen to some two channel music but Dirac is the first RCS I've used that I actually like. I am definitely going to be a player when the full version is made available. When using the demo last year, it was really nice being able to load a set of saved measurements and make adjustments to the curve to create a new filter. Here is a screen shot of my front speakers - ERT 8.3s. That nasty 40Hz hump is something that has been actually quite easy to tame using the XMC eq controls so it's not what I was directly comparing Dirac's results with when I commented on the slight lack of bass in the final results.
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tubby
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Post by tubby on Dec 14, 2014 10:15:48 GMT -5
The lack of Dual Mono Sub summation is not new and has been discussed ad nauseam, just like on the fly, I could never get a good answer to what Dual Mono IS, if you can't EQ them together. good luck trying to get that explained. I gave up. And the conclusion of that discussion was: (1) a lot of us are hoping that a future firmware release will give us the option of EQing the summed response (via the PEQs); and (2) separately from that, there was a question as to whether Dirac would or could be made to operate on the summed response. At this point, I would think that question would've surfaced again, especially since "on the fly" has been discussed ad nauseous as well. What "dual mono" _should_ be, is LFE + anything below the crossovers, from all speakers that are set to "SMALL", is combined into a "sub" signal, and that signal is then fed to both subs. I'm sure that's been posted, I would've thought that it's in the manual as well, though I haven't RTFM in a while now, or at all for the new version. Dual mono is what you describe. The same signal going to each sub out. If using the peq you can set the level, distance and eq for each output channel. If you want to eq the summed response just set the eq the same on each channel. The Dirac question is still up in the air. I was stated that because of the way Dirac works you would not need a single eq different distance solution. However we have not had anyone with the time or ability to do any in depth testing. Or anyone with duals perhaps. What we do know is this. In the Dirac LE it will eq each sub out independently and there is no option to change the eq applied. There is also no option to change distances as dirac optimizes this as well. In the full dirac upgrade you can link the 2 sub channels together so there in only one eq applied to each. But again you will not be able to change the distances. As far as I know no one has the upgrade yet. It is still very early in the roll out. Best to wait for some users that can put in the effort to do a full test and breakdown of the Dirac system before we start discussing the flaws that may or may not be present.
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tubby
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Post by tubby on Dec 14, 2014 10:24:39 GMT -5
I finally got the chance to try Dirac out last night with no grand kids and a tired wife who was exhausted after helping with inventory yesterday and decided to turn in. Anyway the setup and measuring process couldn't have been easier taking only a bit of time following some very simple instruction. I did read the manual while waiting for my activation code but I wouldn't have had any trouble because everything you need to know is displayed on the right side of the screen. Filter creation and subsequent download to the XMC went very smoothly without the slightest glitch along the entire process. I was way to tired to listen critically last night so I'm doing that this morning with a fresh cup of black coffee. I chose Joe Bonamassa Live at the Vienna Opera House which is an all acoustic performance that is recorded very well and coded in DTS MA and makes for some nice Sunday morning entertainment and I know it very well. There is a marked improvement in detail and clarity with better separation of the individual instruments when compared to what I was able to get using the built in PEQ in the XMC's other speaker presets. The bass, however, seemed a bit thin to me but I'm used to a little more bass than what is in the standard Dirac curve. A quick on-the-fly adjustment of 4dB @ 60Hz and it's right back to where I like it. The overall level is down a bit and only requires a little more volume than I'm used to having the XMC set to. About 5dB more seems about right to me. I still have to listen to some two channel music but Dirac is the first RCS I've used that I actually like. I am definitely going to be a player when the full version is made available. When using the demo last year, it was really nice being able to load a set of saved measurements and make adjustments to the curve to create a new filter. Here is a screen shot of my front speakers - ERT 8.3s. That nasty 40Hz hump is something that has been actually quite easy to tame using the XMC eq controls so it's not what I was directly comparing Dirac's results with when I commented on the slight lack of bass in the final results. good looking curve. Are the 8.3s really capable of playing down to 20hz? Or am I not understanding the chart properly and this includes sub as well.
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