XSP-1 Gen II crossover settings.

[KeithL]

I'm sorry, but I do have to take some exception to this discussion.... ... mainly because I disagree that it's a big deal.

If you do have the measurement equipment, and you really care about absolute accuracy, then the markings wouldn't help much - even if they were dead accurate and perfectly calibrated. To end up with a totally accurate configuration, you're going to have to measure both your mains and your sub in your actual room. Then, since the speakers will interact with both the room and each other, after you set the crossover, you're going to have to measure the whole system again to find and correct any anomalies that result from those interactions. Having perfectly accurate and well marked settings for the crossover might make this a little bit easier, but not much.

If you're NOT going to do the entire setup procedure "by meter", then your only alternative is to simply set the low-pass and high-pass filters to the same frequency (anywhere between about 75 Hz and 100 Hz should work fine - just set both knobs to the SAME dot and they should be quite close to matched), adjust your sub to approximately the same level as your mains - by ear, then tweak how much they overlap - again by ear - to eliminate any audible bump or dip at the crossover point. Since you aren't going to know what adjustments to make, other than by listening, then having accurate markings to set them to wouldn't really help much.

So, if you're interested in setting your bass management ACCURATELY, then you really need that test equipment. And, if you don't want to bother with test equipment, you really can do a pretty good job by ear.


I'm not even going to get into a discussion about "value" - because value depends too much on the individual. I can tell you that you can buy a simple but effective external passive crossover for about $49, yet many people find the convenience of having it included in the preamp to be compelling, which is why we included it in the XSP-1. (I'm guessing that there are lots of people out there who have found the bass management in the XSP-1 to be "not useless".) And, yes, we could have included a fancy digitally controlled one; and, yes, that would have increased the complexity and cost; and so we decided not to. For people who want fancy bass management, and room correction, we have the XMC-1.   

Oct 6, 2014 17:31:49 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

OK - Let me say this clearly: The average user has neither the equipment nor the expertise to electrically measure the roll-off of an unmarked electronic crossover. Measuring the in-room response is (grossly) inaccurate.

Therefore, I would STRONGLY tell the average user to avoid the XSP-1 like the plague if they're expecting to use it for bass management.

Emotiva touts a "feature" that is not readily usable by the average owner. This is fraudulent - period.

Without knowing what frequencies the markings correspond to, the user is left to endlessly diddle with the obscure crossover, hoping for a fortuitous result?

Emotiva owes their customers better. There is no excuse for a "feature" so poorly engineered as to be virtually unusable.

Absolutely no excuse.

Boomzilla

[pedrocols]

It is not a privilege to buy products from Emotiva. It is a privilege for Emotiva to be able to have followers.

[deltadube]

Oct 7, 2014 16:10:48 GMT -5 KeithL said:

I'm sorry, but I do have to take some exception to this discussion.... ... mainly because I disagree that it's a big deal.

If you do have the measurement equipment, and you really care about absolute accuracy, then the markings wouldn't help much - even if they were dead accurate and perfectly calibrated. To end up with a totally accurate configuration, you're going to have to measure both your mains and your sub in your actual room. Then, since the speakers will interact with both the room and each other, after you set the crossover, you're going to have to measure the whole system again to find and correct any anomalies that result from those interactions. Having perfectly accurate and well marked settings for the crossover might make this a little bit easier, but not much.

If you're NOT going to do the entire setup procedure "by meter", then your only alternative is to simply set the low-pass and high-pass filters to the same frequency (anywhere between about 75 Hz and 100 Hz should work fine - just set both knobs to the SAME dot and they should be quite close to matched), adjust your sub to approximately the same level as your mains - by ear, then tweak how much they overlap - again by ear - to eliminate any audible bump or dip at the crossover point. Since you aren't going to know what adjustments to make, other than by listening, then having accurate markings to set them to wouldn't really help much.

So, if you're interested in setting your bass management ACCURATELY, then you really need that test equipment. And, if you don't want to bother with test equipment, you really can do a pretty good job by ear.


I'm not even going to get into a discussion about "value" - because value depends too much on the individual. I can tell you that you can buy a simple but effective external passive crossover for about $49, yet many people find the convenience of having it included in the preamp to be compelling, which is why we included it in the XSP-1. (I'm guessing that there are lots of people out there who have found the bass management in the XSP-1 to be "not useless".) And, yes, we could have included a fancy digitally controlled one; and, yes, that would have increased the complexity and cost; and so we decided not to. For people who want fancy bass management, and room correction, we have the XMC-1.   

Oct 6, 2014 17:31:49 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

OK - Let me say this clearly: The average user has neither the equipment nor the expertise to electrically measure the roll-off of an unmarked electronic crossover. Measuring the in-room response is (grossly) inaccurate.

Therefore, I would STRONGLY tell the average user to avoid the XSP-1 like the plague if they're expecting to use it for bass management.

Emotiva touts a "feature" that is not readily usable by the average owner. This is fraudulent - period.

Without knowing what frequencies the markings correspond to, the user is left to endlessly diddle with the obscure crossover, hoping for a fortuitous result?

Emotiva owes their customers better. There is no excuse for a "feature" so poorly engineered as to be virtually unusable.

Absolutely no excuse.

Boomzilla

I would say the use of a simple spl meter is much better in setting up the system with brown noise tones to dial it in..
I don't think by ear is the best choice

[Boomzilla]

If they'd post the frequencies, I'd apologize. Until then, I reserve the privilege of being an irate customer.

[Jim]

I'm taking up a collection to fly Keith in to Boom's house and pay for his time to measure and write little numbers around his crossover dial.

Now, who is going to help me out here?

[harsh]

Oct 7, 2014 16:10:48 GMT -5 KeithL said:

I can tell you that you can buy a simple but effective external passive crossover for about $49, 

Oct 6, 2014 17:31:49 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

I can confirm that!
emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/657680/thread

Included crossover is handy, but it's not without negative effects to the sound, especialy if using the fully differential path which is defeated when using the crossover.

[garbulky]

I don't get the problem here. All he's asking is for some basic crossover reference points. Not about how it reacts in the room or some grey area. But literally where is it XSP-1 electrically crossing over at? Doesn't have to very precise just a general idea would help people out right?

[Matthew64]

Hello folks,
I find this thread very interesting. I am a novice in many ways. I have excellent ears, am a musician, yet I find a lot of this thread confusing about setting the Cross Over levels. I have fiddled with it setting the Low Pass at around 60hz. And set the High Cross Over at around 180hz. I have a subwoofer that I set flat. My speakers are Norh marble speakers (they are made in Thailand, a unique speaker, With 6 inche woofers and a tweater). However, I find that currently the high freaquencies if pushing my tweeter's limits too often. I do adjust from HF and LF from the remote, but that doesn't seem to do as much to reduce the signal, more the level. 

So you can see I don't know all the technical terms and I even called Emotiva and boy I felt like I was on the Big Bang Theory. I enjoyed the confersation, Yet it was hard to get a clear difinitive answer. 

So my question is recommendations on how to set, or just leve on Full range. Now I have experimented and currently have the Low Pass off Full range, and the High Pass on Full range and it sounds good. But I think also I had not set the HIgh Pass and Low pass properly resulting in not such a great sound and the maxing of the signal on my tweeter causing flaws. 

Oh and I play most my music on vinyl. 

I really appreciate your expertise and dedication. Any answers without a lot of technical terms would be appreciated! Step by step. 

Also I note that turning those screws is a pain in the ass! They really didn't want to move when I started and was being very gentle using a small screwdriver. Yet, the High Pass screew's head slot became slightly scrapped. Ever so slightly. Then finally movesd. I will say this does seem to be a pretty labor intensive process for such a well made Tuner. I would have thought there would be far more detail in the manuel with recommended setting guidelines. SO any all all help is greatly appreciated for this old time user. 

Thanks and happy holidays! 




 

[garbulky]

What's your source (DAC) and amplifier?

[stiehl11]

Dec 30, 2016 12:06:43 GMT -5 garbulky said:

Dec 30, 2016 11:40:29 GMT -5 Matthew64 said:

Oh and I play most my music on vinyl. 

What's your source (DAC) and amplifier?

Source is a TT. Amp really shouldn't matter unless he's using a sub-quality unit. Most good-quality amps will sound similar.

[stiehl11]

Dec 30, 2016 11:40:29 GMT -5 Matthew64 said:

So my question is recommendations on how to set, or just leve on Full range. Now I have experimented and currently have the Low Pass off Full range, and the High Pass on Full range and it sounds good. But I think also I had not set the HIgh Pass and Low pass properly resulting in not such a great sound and the maxing of the signal on my tweeter causing flaws. 

If you like the sound at full range going to your L/R speakers, leave it as such. If you feel that your L/R speakers need a bass-boost then engage your sub with the full range setting on the XSP. You can use your sub's crossover to determine where you want to cross your frequencies. Once you have an idea where you want your sub crossed using the sub's crossover, turn off your L/R amp, go back to the XSP and turn the dial until it makes a noticeable difference to the sub's output then back it off a bit (the sub is still getting more range, but it's cross over is removing it). If you need to adjust your L/R from there (turn your amp back on) and adjust to taste.

[KeithL]

The first thing to keep in mind to avoid confusion is that:
1) bass management settings on home theater/surround sound equipment
2) bass management settings on a STEREO preamp like the XSP-1
3) crossover settings on two-way or three-way speakers with active crossovers
...are all slightly different subjects.... and the terminology used to describe them, and the advice that people will give you about them, are DIFFERENT.
Therefore, a lot of the advice you might see for setting up the subwoofer on home theater equipment won't exactly apply to your XSP-1.

You may end up adjusting things by ear, but a good starting point would be to set the High Pass and Low Pass filters both on (NOT Full Range).
You should also start with them set to the same frequency to get the smoothest crossover - and 60 Hz would be a good starting point (the first dot up from the bottom).
Leave your subwoofer set to flat, as it is - so the XSP-1 is handling the crossover.
Since your subwoofer is going to have a level control, you want to use that to match the levels.

Many people suggest that if a subwoofer blends perfectly, then it will NOT be audible as a separate source of sound.
So, start with the subwoofer level set very low, gradually turn it up until you can hear it as a separate source of sound, then turn it DOWN slightly from there.
(When it's set correctly you shouldn't hear the subwoofer - but, if you turn it off, you should miss it.)

The CROSSOVER controls on the XSP-1 set the levels between the main speaker and the subwoofer.
If they are set incorrectly, you could end up with a hole or bump in frequency response - but it will be in the bass or lower midrange - and won't have much effect on the tweeter.
The Tone Trims on the XSP-1 are designed to provide a small range of precise adjustment to the bass and treble level - which is enough to fine tune most speakers.

Dec 30, 2016 11:40:29 GMT -5 Matthew64 said:

Hello folks,
I find this thread very interesting. I am a novice in many ways. I have excellent ears, am a musician, yet I find a lot of this thread confusing about setting the Cross Over levels. I have fiddled with it setting the Low Pass at around 60hz. And set the High Cross Over at around 180hz. I have a subwoofer that I set flat. My speakers are Norh marble speakers (they are made in Thailand, a unique speaker, With 6 inche woofers and a tweater). However, I find that currently the high freaquencies if pushing my tweeter's limits too often. I do adjust from HF and LF from the remote, but that doesn't seem to do as much to reduce the signal, more the level. 

So you can see I don't know all the technical terms and I even called Emotiva and boy I felt like I was on the Big Bang Theory. I enjoyed the confersation, Yet it was hard to get a clear difinitive answer. 

So my question is recommendations on how to set, or just leve on Full range. Now I have experimented and currently have the Low Pass off Full range, and the High Pass on Full range and it sounds good. But I think also I had not set the HIgh Pass and Low pass properly resulting in not such a great sound and the maxing of the signal on my tweeter causing flaws. 

Oh and I play most my music on vinyl. 

I really appreciate your expertise and dedication. Any answers without a lot of technical terms would be appreciated! Step by step. 

Also I note that turning those screws is a pain in the ass! They really didn't want to move when I started and was being very gentle using a small screwdriver. Yet, the High Pass screew's head slot became slightly scrapped. Ever so slightly. Then finally movesd. I will say this does seem to be a pretty labor intensive process for such a well made Tuner. I would have thought there would be far more detail in the manuel with recommended setting guidelines. SO any all all help is greatly appreciated for this old time user. 

Thanks and happy holidays!