HDSapper
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"Any problem on earth can be solved with the careful application of high explosives."
Posts: 833
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Post by HDSapper on Nov 5, 2014 13:31:44 GMT -5
Sounds like levels can only be adjusted temporarily with the trims.
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Post by ansat on Nov 5, 2014 14:07:23 GMT -5
What you can and cannot use with Dirac on the XMC-1.... Here's the easiest way to think abut it... On the XMC-1, Dirac is one of the Speaker Presets (and the only setting you get in that Preset - other than the ones made by Dirac- is the Speaker Size menu). The Speaker Size menu for the Dirac Preset will include the same configuration options as the other Speaker Size menus (including the Crossover Points for Small speakers). So, anything that you can configure OUTSIDE of the Speaker Presets, you will still be able to use while the Dirac Preset is selected (like the various Trims). And anything that you configure INSIDE of Preset 1 or Preset 2 will NOT be available when you choose the Dirac Preset (including the PEQs). I am confused...from what I understand, with the XMC, we can't use the PEQ and drirac at the same time. It is one of the other. So, how does using REW as preparing for DIRAC play into using DIRAC once it is here? Thanks, Mark Keith, please correct me if I am mistaken. The Dirac processing only contains the filters. Wouldn't the levels and distances be stored in the same method that speaker 1 and 2 presets? If so, why not allow access to them? Tony |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Nov 5, 2014 18:13:55 GMT -5
KeithL Your simple way to think of it has me more confused than I was from Tony's posts. I am used to seeing (with my UMC-1) the speaker size, crossover level, level calibration settings, and distance settings. And I think of that as a "Speaker preset" if you will. I am also used to EmoQ from my UMC-1, and I know that I can run it and choose to either have it on or off. And, I know I can set some manual EQ settings and store those and use those if I want (not as fancy as a UMC-200's or XMC-1's PEQ, but similar in concept). And, whether I use any form of EQ or not w/the UMC-1, I am using my levels/distances settings. From what I heard about the XMC-1, I would be able to run DIRAC and, like EmoQ on a UMC-1, either use the results or not. Or, I could set up the PEQ via whatever means I like (such as REW). So, I get that much...and what you talk about as Dirac being like a speaker preset doesn't really deal with the size/levels/distances. But, what I gather ansat is talking about is setting levels & distances with help from REW first. And, then using the speaker setup to enter that data into the XMC-1. So, KeithL - does DIRAC set up levels and distances, or do we do that some other way? (Tony...I gather when you say you varied delays, you mean you did that via speaker distance settings...correct?) Thanks, Mark
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Post by geebo on Nov 5, 2014 18:27:37 GMT -5
Mark,
Each speaker preset, Preset 1, Preset 2 and Dirac are totally separate from each other. You can set the Size, Crossovers, Distance, Levels and EQ in Preset 1 and it will not change what you have done in Preset 2. For example, you could have Preset 1 set up for large speakers and no sub with PEQ and levels set as desired. In Preset 2 you could set up small speakers with a sub(s) and PEQ and levels again adjusted as desired but differently than in Preset 1. The settings in each preset are independent of those in the other. Now Dirac, which is really another preset, allows certain adjustments but not all that you have in the other two presets. There is no PEQ adjustments in the Dirac preset for example. I don't remember what those settings are but I could check later.
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Post by geebo on Nov 5, 2014 20:22:23 GMT -5
So here are the settings available in the speaker presets 1, 2 and Dirac with firmware 1.3
Presets 1 and 2
Distance
Levels
Equalization
Size / Crossovers
Dirac
Size / Crossovers
So going by what Keith said and unless something changes, with Dirac we will still set speaker sizes and crossovers. It looks like Dirac will set levels and distances along with EQ.
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Post by Jim on Nov 5, 2014 20:37:03 GMT -5
Some screenshots or a YouTube video that shows the selections could clear up a lot.
I'm still confused.
Hopefully there is some good supplemental documentation being written about using Dirac. That would be nice to see when its ready
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Post by geebo on Nov 5, 2014 20:46:27 GMT -5
Some screenshots or a YouTube video that shows the selections could clear up a lot. I'm still confused. Hopefully there is some good supplemental documentation being written about using Dirac. That would be nice to see when its ready To use Dirac (with a filter you've created) you simply select the Dirac preset. That's it. To use the built in PEQ, just use Preset 1 or 2. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Nov 5, 2014 20:48:18 GMT -5
So going by what Keith said and unless something changes, with Dirac we will still set speaker sizes and crossovers. It looks like Dirac will set levels and distances along with EQ. Thanks George...this makes sense. That said, I am back to my original question to Tony. If Dirac does all this, why do I need to mess w/REW if Dirac does what we are saying? Mark |
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Post by ansat on Nov 5, 2014 20:51:04 GMT -5
KeithL Your simple way to think of it has me more confused than I was from Tony's posts. I am used to seeing (with my UMC-1) the speaker size, crossover level, level calibration settings, and distance settings. And I think of that as a "Speaker preset" if you will. I am also used to EmoQ from my UMC-1, and I know that I can run it and choose to either have it on or off. And, I know I can set some manual EQ settings and store those and use those if I want (not as fancy as a UMC-200's or XMC-1's PEQ, but similar in concept). And, whether I use any form of EQ or not w/the UMC-1, I am using my levels/distances settings. From what I heard about the XMC-1, I would be able to run DIRAC and, like EmoQ on a UMC-1, either use the results or not. Or, I could set up the PEQ via whatever means I like (such as REW). So, I get that much...and what you talk about as Dirac being like a speaker preset doesn't really deal with the size/levels/distances. But, what I gather ansat is talking about is setting levels & distances with help from REW first. And, then using the speaker setup to enter that data into the XMC-1. So, KeithL - does DIRAC set up levels and distances, or do we do that some other way? (Tony...I gather when you say you varied delays, you mean you did that via speaker distance settings...correct?) Thanks, Mark Correct you are Mark - Speaker distance = delay. 1 ft = 0.91 ms delay. Delays are calculated by setting the furthest distance speaker and setting that as 0 and the difference in distance between the furthest and the other speakers would be the delay. Example: Left 10 ft. Center 15 ft. Right 20 ft. would be Front right 0ms delay, center 4.55 ms delay, Left would be 9.1 ms delay. In 2 channel, delay is critical for imaging. In 5.1+ imaging is not as critical and the delays are better used at the crossover points to avoid nulls in the response. In multiple subwoofers, see the chart above, its absolutely critical. Based on Keith's response, the levels and distances are likely set in the computer software, which I see as a good thing for the set it and go type of user. One of the knocks I gave against the XMC was that I thought it was to complex for the average user. However, delays need to be adjustable after the room correction has been sent. With 4 subwoofers (looking at 3 more) I understand that I need an outboard dsp to integrate them properly. But I hope that both the delays and the levels can be adjusted to user preference. It would be better if it can be done after the filters have been sent. Tony |
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Post by Jim on Nov 5, 2014 21:05:37 GMT -5
Some screenshots or a YouTube video that shows the selections could clear up a lot. I'm still confused. Hopefully there is some good supplemental documentation being written about using Dirac. That would be nice to see when its ready To use Dirac (with a filter you've created) you simply select the Dirac preset. That's it. To use the built in PEQ, just use Preset 1 or 2. OK. That makes sense. I didn't understand that the other options were just nested options. Thanks. |
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Post by ansat on Nov 5, 2014 22:43:57 GMT -5
So going by what Keith said and unless something changes, with Dirac we will still set speaker sizes and crossovers. It looks like Dirac will set levels and distances along with EQ. Thanks George...this makes sense. That said, I am back to my original question to Tony. If Dirac does all this, why do I need to mess w/REW if Dirac does what we are saying? Mark Mark, That is now and excellent question. I was under the impression that this would be set up closer to the dataset's integration of dirac. The Datasat signal flow is as follows.  I was aware previously that PEQ cannot be placed on top of Dirac. But a delay and level lockdown will make proper integration in systems with bass management difficult. I guess this conversation will have to be put on hold until the technical details are released. Tony |
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Post by hifiaudio2 on Nov 6, 2014 10:24:53 GMT -5
So it sounds like the proper way for me to run Dirac with multiple subwoofers is to use the delays I currently have set in my Xilica and just keep all subs *on* and fed back to a single sub output from the XMC and let Dirac hear all of them together and do whatever alignment and EQ it deems necessary.
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Post by javiersc on Dec 28, 2014 19:33:29 GMT -5
So it sounds like the proper way for me to run Dirac with multiple subwoofers is to use the delays I currently have set in my Xilica and just keep all subs *on* and fed back to a single sub output from the XMC and let Dirac hear all of them together and do whatever alignment and EQ it deems necessary. Hi: It seems as I am getting my mic sometime next week and I was wondering what to do with the multiple sub configuration that I have right now I have 2 front ported JBL 1500 in the front and 2 sealed 15" DIY SW in the back, the 4 of them in a symmetrical position. Everything is eq by MiniDsp and phases corrected.  For what I have understood I have to use one output for the 4 of them (I will use the other one for the buttkicker) and let Dirac do its magic, but for what I have read Dirac does not perform its best with these kind of configuration. Is it then recommended to bypass somehow the SW eq by Dirac?? What would be the correct procedure ? Thanks in advance ! |
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Lsc
Emo VIPs
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Post by Lsc on Dec 28, 2014 22:00:04 GMT -5
Ansat, did you get your tweeter fixed?
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Post by ansat on Dec 28, 2014 22:11:39 GMT -5
Ansat, did you get your tweeter fixed? The only issue that I had was a crazy hump in the upper frequencies. Come to find out, the issue was that the microphone on my laptop and the calibration mic were both being mixed into the rew results. Tony |
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Post by modicen on Dec 28, 2014 22:58:19 GMT -5
Hi guys, I am getting ready to run Dirac Live in the next day or two. My question is, I have an SVS AS-EQ1 sub eq and was wondering if I should leave it in the setup when I run Dirac in my new setup. I used it with my Pioneer Elite SC-25. My new setup is a 5.1 system with the XMC-1 replacing the Pioneer.
My new setup is this:
XMC-1
XPR-5
SVS AS-EQ1
Kef Reference 3's for mains
Kef 200c center channel
Def Tech BPX's for surrounds
Seaton SubMersive master slave sub setup
My room is 14x24 with 7 1/2 foot ceilings and the system is along the 14 foot wall. What should I do? thanks guys for any suggestions.
Mario
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Post by ansat on Dec 28, 2014 23:03:10 GMT -5
Hi guys, I am getting ready to run Dirac Live in the next day or two. My question is, I have an SVS AS-EQ1 sub eq and was wondering if I should leave it in the setup when I run Dirac in my new setup. I used it with my Pioneer Elite SC-25. My new setup is a 5.1 system with the XMC-1 replacing the Pioneer. My new setup is this: XMC-1 XPR-5 SVS AS-EQ1 Kef Reference 3's for mains Kef 200c center channel Def Tech BPX's for surrounds Seaton SubMersive master slave sub setup My room is 14x24 with 7 1/2 foot ceilings and the system is along the 14 foot wall. What should I do? thanks guys for any suggestions. Mario Mario, A single sub should not need any additional outboard eq and dirac will do just fine. Tony |
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Post by ansat on Dec 28, 2014 23:04:43 GMT -5
Ha need to read closer.... dialed in on the 5.1 then read the master slave sub. Looking up the specs of the gear now as its quite a bit more complicated.
Tony
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Post by modicen on Dec 28, 2014 23:10:08 GMT -5
Thanks for responding Tony, so should I take it out of the chain then? Both subs are equal distance apart along the front wall.
Mario
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Post by ansat on Dec 28, 2014 23:20:14 GMT -5
Hi guys, I am getting ready to run Dirac Live in the next day or two. My question is, I have an SVS AS-EQ1 sub eq and was wondering if I should leave it in the setup when I run Dirac in my new setup. I used it with my Pioneer Elite SC-25. My new setup is a 5.1 system with the XMC-1 replacing the Pioneer. My new setup is this: XMC-1 XPR-5 SVS AS-EQ1 Kef Reference 3's for mains Kef 200c center channel Def Tech BPX's for surrounds Seaton SubMersive master slave sub setup My room is 14x24 with 7 1/2 foot ceilings and the system is along the 14 foot wall. What should I do? thanks guys for any suggestions. Mario Mario, see the above post. I jumped the gun on my response. I am not that familiar with the controls on the master slave option for the Seaton's. Do you have the ability to phase align without the eq1? How do you have the eq1 set up now? Is there a seperate input for each sub on the master? Tony |
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