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Post by cheglie on Dec 3, 2014 0:21:33 GMT -5
So, some have subs capable of getting as low or lower than 20 hz. Any good examples of recordings that actually hit this low down spot?
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Post by garbulky on Dec 3, 2014 1:31:21 GMT -5
1812 overture
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 3, 2014 1:50:12 GMT -5
Bang!
Pipe Organ music is another good test, a favourite is Pomp & Pipes on Reference Recordings.
Cheers Gary
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Post by garbulky on Dec 3, 2014 1:54:16 GMT -5
Though not necessarily below 20 hz or anything like that, Jennifer Warnes Way down deep sounds amazing and its bass is huge especially wih a PSA XV15 when I heard it.
Also of note: anything Bela Fleck and the flecktones like cosmic hippo, celtic medley.
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Post by pdaddy on Dec 3, 2014 6:00:22 GMT -5
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djreef
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Post by djreef on Dec 3, 2014 12:23:50 GMT -5
I have that one. It's a badass. |
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Dec 3, 2014 13:02:08 GMT -5
More than likely not 20Hz or below. If it's Redbook CD then definitely not below 20Hz. If it's vinyl then only a few recordings/pressings went that low (and readily evident in the groove pattern). Generally, vinyl didn't go that low because very few turntables could track that low of a groove. Maybe SACD if the original recording actually captured it. |
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Post by garbulky on Dec 3, 2014 13:33:51 GMT -5
More than likely not 20Hz or below. If it's Redbook CD then definitely not below 20Hz. If it's vinyl then only a few recordings/pressings went that low (and readily evident in the groove pattern). Generally, vinyl didn't go that low because very few turntables could track that low of a groove. Maybe SACD if the original recording actually captured it. I think CD"s can go below 20 hz if purposefully intended? I may be wrong. I know about the 20 to 20khz. But there is nothing stopping it from putting information on there less than it right? (Like organ recordings) |
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Post by stiehl11 on Dec 3, 2014 14:00:13 GMT -5
Nope. As far as I know, redbook is red book. Never goes below 20Hz, it's a limitation to the standard. Still has to be recorded and that's very difficult to do (unless created digitally).
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Post by garbulky on Dec 3, 2014 14:22:26 GMT -5
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Post by frenchyfranky on Dec 3, 2014 18:42:03 GMT -5
cheglie what do you really expect to experiment below 20Hz? You will hear nothing but instead you will feel vibration only.
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Post by lionear on Dec 3, 2014 23:17:57 GMT -5
Anyone remember the movie "Earthquake"? It debuted "Sensuround", which promised to make you feel as well as hear sound. (I was very disappointed with the movie - I didn't feel a thing.) There seem to be some strange effects with very low frequency sounds: news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3087674.stm |
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Dec 3, 2014 23:52:33 GMT -5
From Sony (co-creators of the Compact Disc):
Some Red Book details:
The form of digital audio encoding (2-channel, 16-bit PCM, sampled at 44100Hz)
The frequency response of audio CD is 20Hz to 20kHz
Bit rate = 44100 samples × 16 bit per sample × 2 channels = 1411.2 KBs (more than 10 MB per minute)
Sample values range from -32768 to +32767
Maximum number of index points (subdivisions of a track) is 99
Maximum number of tracks is 99
Minimum time limit for a track is 4 seconds
Maximum playing time is 78 minutes (including pauses)
Now, I did go to the forum listed in garbulky's post. It is a forum. In it people say that their speakers can reproduce 10hz comfortably and even down to 0.5hz. While I understand that some of that is good hearted fun the point I'm making is that anyone can say anything in a forum (just like I'm doing here). The website referenced, realtraps.com, uses mp3 files for the tracks. So, if you burn a CD with these mp3 files and put it in a player like the ERC-1/2/3, it's going to play... but it is not a redbook CD! Further more, I know Toccata and Fugue (I assume in D minor by Bach) does not have a sub-20hz pedal note in it as written. And, I'm almost certain Porgy and Bess (by Gershwin or by Davis) doesn't either, but I'll admit I have not looked at the score/chart for either Gershwin or Davis' works on the subject.
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Post by plm on Dec 4, 2014 0:49:46 GMT -5
Nope. As far as I know, redbook is red book. Never goes below 20Hz, it's a limitation to the standard. Still has to be recorded and that's very difficult to do (unless created digitally). RedBook can happily reproduce sub-20Hz signals. There is no limitation in the standard. The only limitation is 20kHz because of the 44.1kHz sampling rate and Nyquist theory, In fact, with all the samples available, they'll be reproduced more accurately than higher frequency signals. There is a low-pass filter that will remove HF noise, but LF should be passed through completely intact unless there is something manifestly wrong with the implementation in the particular playback device. |
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Post by stiehl11 on Dec 4, 2014 0:59:12 GMT -5
Nope. As far as I know, redbook is red book. Never goes below 20Hz, it's a limitation to the standard. Still has to be recorded and that's very difficult to do (unless created digitally). RedBook can happily reproduce sub-20Hz signals. There is no limitation in the standard. The only limitation is 20kHz because of the 44.1kHz sampling rate and Nyquist theory, In fact, with all the samples available, they'll be reproduced more accurately than higher frequency signals. There is a low-pass filter that will remove HF noise, but LF should be passed through completely intact unless there is something manifestly wrong with the implementation in the particular playback device. I can only tell you what Sony says on their website. If you don't believe them, feel free to take it up with them. |
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Post by guzz46 on Dec 4, 2014 1:04:25 GMT -5
I have the Tchaikovsky 1812 overture on multichannel SACD, and judging by 20hz test tones I've heard on my system I don't think those cannons get any where near 20hz, most movies don't even get near 20hz, which is why I changed my SVS from 16hz to sealed mode for tighter bass at the expense of extension/output.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2014 2:50:33 GMT -5
I won't take the time to post the links here but I have repeatedly seen comments that some of the recorded 1812 Overture digital cannons reproduce the 8-10Hz range. Generally, frequencies below 20Hz cannot be heard but can be very definitely be felt if your sub goes that low!
Hi-Fi World of the UK says:
A CD player has no basic difficulty reproducing all audio frequencies evenly, from 20Hz to 20kHz. In practice the lower limit is a very low 2Hz and the upper limit a tightly defined and rigid 21kHz (half the 44.1kHz sampling frequency of CD)
I have test CD's that have tones way below 20Hz.
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Post by cheglie on Dec 4, 2014 11:48:55 GMT -5
cheglie what do you really expect to experiment below 20Hz? You will hear nothing but instead you will feel vibration only. I just think it is interesting to see the #'s listed by manufactures of subs that tought very low frequencies. Before I bought my PSA sub I chatted with Tom V. and he made the comment that it would be very rare to experience a recording below 20hz. Yet I wonder if it is like "head room"? If a sub has capabilities of below 20hz, then does it make sense that it can reproduce say.... 23hz better than some lesser subs? Some of the most "Earth shattering" bass I've heard is from Perfect Circle's song Go Back to Sleep. I have no Idea of the rated frequency, but it is a room shaker! Some of the battle scenes from Gamer are pretty deep too. Seems to be more of a feeling than a sound (infrasound)! geeknizer.com/secrets-of-infrasound-below-20hz/ |
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Post by guzz46 on Dec 4, 2014 12:08:32 GMT -5
cheglie what do you really expect to experiment below 20Hz? You will hear nothing but instead you will feel vibration only. I just think it is interesting to see the #'s listed by manufactures of subs that tought very low frequencies. Before I bought my PSA sub I chatted with Tom V. and he made the comment that it would be very rare to experience a recording below 20hz. Yet I wonder if it is like "head room"? If a sub has capabilities of below 20hz, then does it make sense that it can reproduce say.... 23hz better than some lesser subs? Some of the most "Earth shattering" bass I've heard is from Perfect Circle's song Go Back to Sleep. I have no Idea of the rated frequency, but it is a room shaker! Movies are why you may want the ability to go 20hz or below (and possibly drum and bass music) there's not a lot of movies out there with 20hz and below material, which is why some forums have a dedicated thread listing those movies. |
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Post by frenchyfranky on Dec 4, 2014 19:06:02 GMT -5
I have a sub that go deep and clean to 20Hz at 0dB, 16Hz at -3dB and 12Hz at -6dB and yes it is very interesting with movie only during special FX you really feel the heart and couch shaking.
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