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Post by fyrn on Dec 10, 2014 14:54:40 GMT -5
I recently came across a DC-1 and was wondering if using a dc-1 eliminates the need for a good cd player. Since now it is nothing more than a transport, would a cheap player do as well. I realize I can test this my self as far as SQ, but I'm more interested on the technical aspect like jitter, transport differences, etc
In other words, is a transport a transport at this stage since the DC-1 is now the DAC, re-clocks, analog stage, etc.
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Post by Cogito on Dec 10, 2014 15:08:18 GMT -5
It's just Ones and Zeros coming out of that wire. All that CD player needs to do is track properly. All the magic happens in the DAC.
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Post by garbulky on Dec 10, 2014 15:42:17 GMT -5
I would use whatever player you want. I myself use a bargain bin Sony blu ray player.
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Post by fyrn on Dec 10, 2014 16:07:51 GMT -5
That's what I thought, but somewhere I remember talk about cheap players would give you jitter and other problems.
But the way I understand it, the dc-1 takes the signal and re processes it eliminating everything that a cheap player would introduce.
Unless I'm completely wrong.
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Post by garbulky on Dec 10, 2014 16:18:04 GMT -5
That's what I thought, but somewhere I remember talk about cheap players would give you jitter and other problems. But the way I understand it, the dc-1 takes the signal and re processes it eliminating everything that a cheap player would introduce. Unless I'm completely wrong. I don't think it's possible to eliminate jitter. If that was the case why are there very expensive transports out there if a simple $5 part can do it. But it does reduce it a lot. Having said that, in my experience it doesn't make a massive difference to the signal. I've tried it with and without jitter reduction engaged and couldn't really hear a difference. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Dec 10, 2014 16:18:54 GMT -5
No, you've basically got it right. The DC-1 has an asynchronous USB input - which re-clocks everything coming through USB all of the time (and so removes any jitter there). In addition to that, the DC-1 has an asynchronous sample rate converter (ASRC) which re-clocks ALL of the inputs when it's enabled. (It's On by default; to turn it Off set the DC-1 to "synchronous" - it's somewhere there in the setup menu.) Other than that there's no difference a cheap player would make - unless it was sooooo bad that it was actually misreading or losing data (I've never personally seen one do that, but it's possible.) That's what I thought, but somewhere I remember talk about cheap players would give you jitter and other problems. But the way I understand it, the dc-1 takes the signal and re processes it eliminating everything that a cheap player would introduce. Unless I'm completely wrong. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Dec 11, 2014 7:41:22 GMT -5
The cheap CD player does need to have a digital out, of course. I have seen some that didn't.
Mark
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moonwolf
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Post by moonwolf on Dec 11, 2014 16:41:13 GMT -5
My experience is with XDA-2, so it may or may not apply to DC-1. I have 7 years old inexpensive Sony DVD player, which I'm using as a transport for XDA-2. I'm satisfied with my sound. But, it did sound better with Marantz CD player when I briefly tried. It didn't make a huge sense to use $400 transport for $300 DAC, so I did NOT pursue this set up. Why is the case? I don't know. It doesn't make a sense why some transport sounds better since it's all zeroes and ones. But, I believe even emotiva market or used to market that their ERC player make a great transport. If all transport are the same, who would use $300 ERC player as a transport when there are plenty CD players with optical-out under $60? Please don't witch hunt me for saying this. After all I'm using a DVD player, which probably worth $15 on ebay. And, I'm not saying anyone should buy an expensive CD transport at any mean. But, just laying out my experience that even a transport has its own sound. In my experiments, WD TV LIVE optical-out sounded inferior to an Apple TV optical-out, and Apple TV optical-out sounded inferior to this old Sony's optical-out. One of the top of line Samsung DVD player (2012 $300) optical-out also sounded differently from my old Sony. I preferred $15 Sony's sounds so kept it. Again, please don't hunt me down. But, if you experiment on your own, you may find similar result with me. I'm not saying more expensive is better at all, but not all transports sound same. Anyway, everyone's ears are their own. Many people used/still say all solid state amps sound the same.  |
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 11, 2014 17:54:06 GMT -5
I recently set up for a friend a small system with an XDA-2 and a pair or Airmotive 6's. To test it out I used a cheapo Sony BD player (like $70, new) and I was quite amazed at the sound quality as were the others that listened to it. I don't think it was quite as good as my ERC-3, but it sure as hell wasn't night and day. I won't be giving up my ERC-3 anytime soon, if ever, but for a minimalist / small room / bedroom system a cheapo transport plus a decent DAC would be pretty damn good.
Cheers
Gary
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Post by fyrn on Dec 14, 2014 22:30:10 GMT -5
One thing I did notice with a cheap DVD player vs an ERC-1 used as transports with the DC-1 was the volume difference. I had to turn the volume higher when using the DVD player to get the same sound level as the ERC. No idea why.
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Post by TheMachinist on Dec 17, 2014 3:07:39 GMT -5
There has to be difference between a $20 plastic CD player and the ERC-3 as a transport, else you are telling me the ERC-3 is worth about the same as the plastic CD player ?
I have come a long way with using many different CD players as transport to DC-1 as well as laptop/audio pcs. It is easy to hear the differences, but I won't say is better or worse as that is to your own tastes and judgement. Heck there is difference even in the different inputs on the DC-1 coming from the same source as well as difference in the digital cables used in between them.
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Post by Canuck_fr on Dec 17, 2014 7:52:53 GMT -5
There has to be difference between a $20 plastic CD player and the ERC-3 as a transport, else you are telling me the ERC-3 is worth about the same as the plastic CD player ? I have come a long way with using many different CD players as transport to DC-1 as well as laptop/audio pcs. It is easy to hear the differences, but I won't say is better or worse as that is to your own tastes and judgement. Heck there is difference even in the different inputs on the DC-1 coming from the same source as well as difference in the digital cables used in between them. I wouldn't go on record to say there is a difference in cables. If there is a difference it can be measured and I challenge you to do that. This forum (including myself) is very unfriendly to cable différences. Many people think that is just a bunch of snake oïl (ie: crap). |
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Post by TheMachinist on Dec 17, 2014 8:55:43 GMT -5
There has to be difference between a $20 plastic CD player and the ERC-3 as a transport, else you are telling me the ERC-3 is worth about the same as the plastic CD player ? I have come a long way with using many different CD players as transport to DC-1 as well as laptop/audio pcs. It is easy to hear the differences, but I won't say is better or worse as that is to your own tastes and judgement. Heck there is difference even in the different inputs on the DC-1 coming from the same source as well as difference in the digital cables used in between them. I wouldn't go on record to say there is a difference in cables. If there is a difference it can be measured and I challenge you to do that. This forum (including myself) is very unfriendly to cable differences. Many people think that is just a bunch of snake oïl (ie: crap). I am in this forum too, and am not prejudice to cables. I say what I see and hear. Neither I am referring to 'snail oil' grade cables that need a bank loan to buy, which you presumed. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Dec 17, 2014 9:22:32 GMT -5
While the sound coming out of your speakers might be close or the same with a cheap player, don't dismiss the other issues. Cheap players may have noisey motors, unreliable, clunky and loud tray mechanisms, and a poor overall build quality. Some cheap players will distract from your overall listening experience, break, and just end up in the recycle bin. I don't put the inexpensive Sony/Samsung/Panasonic players in this category, but you need to try them out considering your tolerance to these usability issues.
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Post by audiobill on Dec 17, 2014 15:02:26 GMT -5
IMO, everything in the signal chain is important, and the extensive error correction that may take place on a cheap transport may degrade the read quality.
Besides, I take pride in my system......no tolerance for "cheap".
Having said that, I sold my rather high end BAT tubed CD player years ago after ripping all my CDs.
Now have moved on to 16/44 streaming via Tidal, with zero degradation but great strides in convenience and choice, all for the price of just about one cd or download per month.
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 17, 2014 18:50:45 GMT -5
There has to be difference between a $20 plastic CD player and the ERC-3 as a transport, else you are telling me the ERC-3 is worth about the same as the plastic CD player ? I have come a long way with using many different CD players as transport to DC-1 as well as laptop/audio pcs. It is easy to hear the differences, but I won't say is better or worse as that is to your own tastes and judgement. Heck there is difference even in the different inputs on the DC-1 coming from the same source as well as difference in the digital cables used in between them. In my case a $70 Sony BD player plus a $269 XDA-2 didn't sound as good to my ears as an ERC-3 for $359, but? Soundstage, clarity, impact, presence were all better (not night and day better) using the ERC-3 via USP-1 to a pair of Airmotive 6's. Compared to the Sony BD via XDA-2 to the same Airmotive 6's. How much is related to the individuals in the ERC-3/USP-1 combo versus the Sony/XDA-2 combo I can't say. Cheers Gary |
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Post by Chris on Dec 17, 2014 22:06:18 GMT -5
I use this with my Benchmark DAC-2 HGC (similar to DC-1, a bit higher quality  ). I like it because it is very compact and all I need is a transport. I mostly always use my Logitech Touch to stream from my LMS server so I don't actually play physical CDs that much! Only $299. Pro-Ject CD Box S CD Player |
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Post by vcautokid on Dec 17, 2014 22:49:37 GMT -5
Any cheap computer with a CD/DVD drive coming out USB to the DC-1. Async. Easy peasy.
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Post by TheMachinist on Dec 17, 2014 22:57:18 GMT -5
To OP, If your purpose is to slave the DC-1 to a CD player for your listening purposes, you would be better off getting a dedicated CD player like the ERC-3. The ERC-3 itself sounds very good than being used as transport to DC-1 is not going to make it sound better. I tried that. I am in love with the ERC-3. Weekends I play box sets all day and no listening fatigue. Using a cheap CD player with the DC-1 is not doing justice to the DC-1 and yourself IMO  |
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). I like it because it is very compact and all I need is a transport. I mostly always use my Logitech Touch to stream from my LMS server so I don't actually play physical CDs that much! Only $299.
