Alternative Dirac Technique

[deewan]

Jan 6, 2015 18:07:03 GMT -5 rswood said:

Dewan, line of site seems for me to be crucial for best sound, you could lay the the chairs on their back to get an overall lower profile, allowing better line of site.

I thought about that, but then it crossed my mind that doing so would effectively change my room. Three thick theater chairs with padding upright likely creates a different sounding room that three chairs with the backs fully reclined. Maybe not, but I think it would. But good suggestion. Heck, at this point I just want to get a USB and mic that works so I can run Dirac.

[Mike Ronesia]

I can't figure out how to turn off AGC in windows 8.

Cheers
Mark

[socketman]

It only shows up when you have the cmedia mic connected. I didn't have that option until I hooked the mic up.

Recording devices/properties/custom

[ansat]

Jan 6, 2015 23:18:09 GMT -5 Mike Ronesia said:

I can't figure out how to turn off AGC in windows 8.

Cheers
Mark

Right click the speaker in the lower left hand corner and click recording devices. right click on the cmedia mic and select properties. Its under advanced (I think)

Tony

[socketman]

How long does it take to get to Mike Ronesia. I could come by and visit.

[Mike Ronesia]

Thanks Tony. socketman, longer than I want to wait. I just ran it with AGC checked and the readings don't look too crazy. I'll redo it now that I've switched AGC off.

The mains were a little hot around 30hz so I dialed them down a little with the control on the back.

Cheers
Mark

[Mike Ronesia]

So after this is uploaded will it send a full signal to all the speakers, or use the xo's programmed into the XMC earlier? I don't want anything going to my center and sides below 80hz.



Cheers
Mark

[Mike Ronesia]

Looks like from the graph my hf is going to be getting a rather large boost. Time to do some critical listening.

Cheers
Mark

[ansat]

Jan 7, 2015 0:01:52 GMT -5 Mike Ronesia said:

So after this is uploaded will it send a full signal to all the speakers, or use the xo's programmed into the XMC earlier? I don't want anything going to my center and sides below 80hz.



Cheers
Mark

It will adhere to your xover.
Tony

[socketman]

Jan 6, 2015 23:36:45 GMT -5 Mike Ronesia said:

Thanks Tony. socketman, longer than I want to wait. I just ran it with AGC checked and the readings don't look too crazy. I'll redo it now that I've switched AGC off.

The mains were a little hot around 30hz so I dialed them down a little with the control on the back.

Cheers
Mark

Ha Ha I wasn't offering help, I don't know sh** lol just lookin to run away. LOL

[Mike Ronesia]

Jan 7, 2015 0:23:22 GMT -5 socketman said:

Jan 6, 2015 23:36:45 GMT -5 Mike Ronesia said:

Thanks Tony. socketman, longer than I want to wait. I just ran it with AGC checked and the readings don't look too crazy. I'll redo it now that I've switched AGC off.

The mains were a little hot around 30hz so I dialed them down a little with the control on the back.

Cheers
Mark

Ha Ha I wasn't offering help, I don't know sh** lol just lookin to run away. LOL

Come by any time. We have a nice guest room.

Cheers
Mark

[rocky500]

I was getting not so good results when I enabled Dirac for my 2CH music. Poor actually.
Read somewhere that they did some tests and people prefered when the 9 Points where close together.
Just redid my Dirac scan with the points very close together and finally have an excellent result!
To give you some idea my 2 outside measurements are around 23" apart from each other.

Could be I am using Magneplanar speakers which are known to be quite bad as youy move off center and this could cause Dirac some problems maybe?

Quote from another forum where I posted some graphs
"One way is to take the Dirac measurements closely spaced at the main listening spot (have a look at Sean Olive's blog - there is an evaluation of different automatic room correction systems, and he concludes that the best results - judged by experienced listeners - were achieved with closely spaced measurements). Doing this, Dirac can actually reduce energy transmitted into the dominant room modes. That should improve the bass significantly."

[flak]

Jan 7, 2015 0:01:52 GMT -5 Mike Ronesia said:

Hi Mike,
I don't know why you have those rapid swings of the before and after correction curves at the low frequencies but they do not seem right to me.

Flavio

[Mike Ronesia]

These are the side speakers are designed to be xo'ed at 80hz. The full range signal tried to go lower and couldn't and Dirac tried to fix, but bottom line is they will never make a sound that low while in use because of the xo. It's the drop at the high end that I find odd. All 5 of the speakers do it and they all have the same drivers.

Cheers
Mark

[goozoo]

What is interesting when learning about room correction is the education that you get about the kind of speakers you own. It begins to show how and why certain speakers have the sound and reputation that they get. Anyone out there have calibrated with Chane Audio speakers using Dirac?

[coldfusion]

Jan 5, 2015 10:19:01 GMT -5 ansat said:

As most of you know, I have been running tons of measurements of my room and have re-run Dirac about 40 times now. After some back and forth with a few users and with some help from flak, I have some guidelines that differ from the what exists already. These have yielded the most repeatability successful results and is now my go to measurement technique.

So here are some guidelines that need to be followed:


Setup and First Measurement

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• AGC Must be turned OFF in the microphone properties and the gain should be set to 100%.


• Follow Emotiva's instructions for setting the gain and levels in the Dirac application


• Make sure that you hit play on all powered subs to ensure that they are awake. (this includes speakers with built in powered subs)


• Take the First measurement at your main listening position with the microphone tip pointing up and exactly at ear level. Note the height and location as these will become your reference points for all other measurements.

Measurements 2 - 9

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• All 8 other measurements should be 8-10 in above and below the height of the first measurement. Stay within this 2" range. For those who have microphone stands. I recommend setting the stand up so that the extension all the way down is 9" below the first measurement and then raise the extension 18" and marked the extension pole. Or if your OCD like I am, break out your laser level.


• Take your measurements in "roughly" Dirac's recommended positions. But use the high/low pattern that is suggested.


• Each measurement needs to be at a minimum of 18" away from all previous measurements


• Each measurement needs to be Line of sight to all speakers except the subwoofer


• Measurements do not need to be contained within the seating and it is ok to have measurements behind and in front of the seating.


• If possible keep your measurements 30" away from any wall(unless your listening position is right up against the wall)

Here is an rough estimate where my measurements ended up being located (Blue Dots). Measurements 2-8 were going in the order that Dirac recommended and alternating the heights. For now, I am still only calibrating the first row of seating.


MINIDSP

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So the minidsp manual provides a treasure trove of knowledge and can be found here


Taken from the minidsp manual

It is important that measurements are performed over a sufficiently broad area. If the measurement area is too small, the result may be over-correction that will sound dry and dull. If using the Chair listening area, spread the microphone positions over a circle with a diameter of at least a meter (three feet). The microphone should be varied in height from the central position by at least 30 cm (one foot) up and down. If using the Sofa or Auditorium listening environment, spread the measurement locations over the full listening area and ensure that microphone height varies by at least 30 cm (one foot) up and down.
While the locations indicated are recommended, you can use a different set of locations if necessary. The important thing is to ensure that the measurement locations are spread over the whole listening area and that the microphone is moved a sufficient distance vertically as well as horizontally.
In some cases, such as when the listening area is very close to the loudspeakers, the size and in particular the height of the measurement area can be reduced, to avoid discrepancies caused by varying output response from the speakers themselves.

Other things that it shares is that if you get clipping at a certain position. to go back a step and reduce the volume and continue with your measurements. It states that there is no need to redo any measurements already taken. This mirrors the information that we received from Emotiva.

MiniDSP also shows the recommended microphone positions and states nothing that the selection of the listening environment selection doing anything different.

Attachment Deleted

If Dirac is not producing the results expected, give this a try and please share your thoughts.

Tony

This guy needs to be part of all future beta programs....well done!

[XTC]

My takeaway from this thread is there is not a one size fits all solution to getting the best sound using Dirac. The OP says that each test position should be a minimum of 18 inches away from any other test position while another post says their outside 2 test positions are only 23 inches apart and both of those are appreciably different than what Dirac recommends. The only thing everyone has in common here is the XMC-1. Everyone has a different room, speaker placement, furniture, etc. With the variety of speakers, amps, etc. available few, if any, have the exact same equipment. I've taken 2 sets of measurements with minor adjustments in mic placement with dramatically different results. I applaud Tony and thank him for sharing his findings with the community. It's an excellent starting point and a reminder that if you do not get results you like using Dirac, try different mic positions. It can make a major difference in your results.

[rocky500]

Jan 8, 2015 9:26:51 GMT -5 XTC said:

My takeaway from this thread is there is not a one size fits all solution to getting the best sound using Dirac. The OP says that each test position should be a minimum of 18 inches away from any other test position while another post says their outside 2 test positions are only 23 inches apart and both of those are appreciably different than what Dirac recommends. The only thing everyone has in common here is the XMC-1. Everyone has a different room, speaker placement, furniture, etc. With the variety of speakers, amps, etc. available few, if any, have the exact same equipment. I've taken 2 sets of measurements with minor adjustments in mic placement with dramatically different results. I applaud Tony and thank him for sharing his findings with the community. It's an excellent starting point and a reminder that if you do not get results you like using Dirac, try different mic positions. It can make a major difference in your results.

I see you have Martin Logan speakers similar in sound dispersion to my Magneplanars.
Did you find the close mic spacing best in your situation like me?
My up and down mic positions were quite close too.

I also would think if you are mainly listening to music(2CH or 2.1) in the sweetspot, close mic positions might be worth a go.

[tunatamer]

My room is challenging to say the least and through three runs of Dirac I have one that's what I consider borderline successful.

The issues are my MLP is a chair about 3.5 ft from a side wall with the left surround about 2 ft from and slightly in front of the MLP.
Unfortunately, I can't move the chair more towards the center as it would block access to the rest of the room and there's a door behind the chair so I can't move the surround back. Not how I want it but I live in an apartment so my options are limited.

I seem to be light on midrange depending on the source material. Highs are crisp, perhaps a bit bright and all speakers blend nicely.
I seem to be lacking some depth to the overall sound spectrum which I did not have before applying Dirac.

Anyone have any advice (other than moving ?

Thanks, Bob

[barrak]

Jan 8, 2015 9:50:53 GMT -5 rocky500 said:

Jan 8, 2015 9:26:51 GMT -5 XTC said:

My takeaway from this thread is there is not a one size fits all solution to getting the best sound using Dirac. The OP says that each test position should be a minimum of 18 inches away from any other test position while another post says their outside 2 test positions are only 23 inches apart and both of those are appreciably different than what Dirac recommends. The only thing everyone has in common here is the XMC-1. Everyone has a different room, speaker placement, furniture, etc. With the variety of speakers, amps, etc. available few, if any, have the exact same equipment. I've taken 2 sets of measurements with minor adjustments in mic placement with dramatically different results. I applaud Tony and thank him for sharing his findings with the community. It's an excellent starting point and a reminder that if you do not get results you like using Dirac, try different mic positions. It can make a major difference in your results.

I see you have Martin Logan speakers similar in sound dispersion to my Magneplanars.
Did you find the close mic spacing best in your situation like me?
My up and down mic positions were quite close too.

I also would think if you are mainly listening to music(2CH or 2.1) in the sweetspot, close mic positions might be worth a go.

Narrow dispersion speakers should have closely spaced (horizontally) mic positions even if the seating area is wide. With such speakers you should also tame the post-Dirac boosted highs if you prefer the speakers' line of sight to cross in front or behind main mic position.
On the other hand, if the measurements show a deep narrow dip then increasing the spacing should help Dirac software average it out.