morfious
Minor Hero
Putting the XMC-1 through its paces
Posts: 75 
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Post by morfious on Jan 28, 2015 8:22:29 GMT -5
I just want to thank Ansat and everyone else who gave suggestions on how to get the most out of Dirac. I took advantage of the "Snow Day" yesterday to re-run Dirac and get everything set up. My first run through I had AGC turned on and used much too low of a mic position. I used ear height for the "sweet spot" and 3" above seat cushion for the low spots. I also found out that things work much better via boot camp with a hard wired connection. I got flakey results with wi-fi. I re-ran the system hardwired, with AGC turned off and made sure that even the "low" positions were above the back of my theater chairs. "High" spots were a good 1-2 feet above the back of the chair. I also put the mic a bit wider left and right for the outer positions. I can say the the updated technique give far superior results. The first run Dirac was considerably softer and not as lively. (Although better than just measurement and levels set with a Radio Shack Meter). The current status gives me a really nice sound stage. I often find myself checking if I have the audio mode set to stereo or just out of my center channel, since things seem to be staged in the center of my room better. Anyone try an XLR extension between the mic and cable? I also thought that this would be the best solution for an extension cable. No worries about USB length adn XLR was designed to prevent interference for long runs, correct? |
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Post by viper6 on Jan 28, 2015 9:58:12 GMT -5
I just want to thank Ansat and everyone else who gave suggestions on how to get the most out of Dirac. I took advantage of the "Snow Day" yesterday to re-run Dirac and get everything set up. My first run through I had AGC turned on and used much too low of a mic position. I used ear height for the "sweet spot" and 3" above seat cushion for the low spots. I also found out that things work much better via boot camp with a hard wired connection. I got flakey results with wi-fi. I re-ran the system hardwired, with AGC turned off and made sure that even the "low" positions were above the back of my theater chairs. "High" spots were a good 1-2 feet above the back of the chair. I also put the mic a bit wider left and right for the outer positions. I can say the the updated technique give far superior results. The first run Dirac was considerably softer and not as lively. (Although better than just measurement and levels set with a Radio Shack Meter). The current status gives me a really nice sound stage. I often find myself checking if I have the audio mode set to stereo or just out of my center channel, since things seem to be staged in the center of my room better. Anyone try an XLR extension between the mic and cable? I also thought that this would be the best solution for an extension cable. No worries about USB length adn XLR was designed to prevent interference for long runs, correct? When I was having issues getting Dirac to run properly on my Mac (using Virtual Box-had NO issues with VMWare Fusion), I mentioned (on the phone) that I had tried using an XLR cable to extend the reach (mine is an iMac, not a laptop) of the mic to Keith, and he wasted NO time in strongly advising against using the XLR cable. If I remember correctly he was concerned that it would change the response of the mic in some way. What I am positive about is his conviction that a USB cable is the way to go if one needs to extend the reach of the microphone. |
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Post by barrak on Jan 28, 2015 11:04:34 GMT -5
Anyone try an XLR extension between the mic and cable? Upon reading your suggestion, I just daisy-chained three 3-ft XLR cables between the mic and its own cable. Dirac software still recognized the mic and allowed me to load my saved projects. My Seaton surrounds sould be delivered today and I intend to redo my measurements tonight with these cable extensions as they will eliminate the need to relocate my PC closer to the couch. I'll report the results and comparisons with previous measurements, back in this space. For the record, the three cables used were two twisted-pair KimberKable runs and a shielded Transparent AES/EBU cable. |
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Post by geebo on Jan 28, 2015 11:13:38 GMT -5
Anyone try an XLR extension between the mic and cable? Upon reading your suggestion, I just daisy-chained three 3-ft XLR cables between the mic and its own cable. Dirac software still recognized the mic and allowed me to load my saved projects. My Seaton surrounds sould be delivered today and I intend to redo my measurements tonight with these cable extensions as they will eliminate the need to relocate my PC closer to the couch. I'll report the results and comparisons with previous measurements, back in this space. For the record, the three cables used were two twisted-pair KimberKable runs and a shielded Transparent AES/EBU cable. Thanks, I'll be looking for your results.  |
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KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,256
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Post by KeithL on Jan 28, 2015 11:28:59 GMT -5
Just to be clear on the situation with using extended XLR cables.... ALL cables have some capacitance, and changing the capacitance of the cable WILL alter the response of the microphone - at least a little. The output of a microphone is a lot different than a line level output; the level of a microphone's output is MUCH lower than line level, and the microphone is simply NOT designed to drive long cables like a line output is. It's quite likely that a good quality cable less than ten feet or so long won't make a significant difference to the response of the microphone, but that will depend on the capacitance of the particular cable you use, and you've also got the possibility of the cable picking up noise (a little cable hum is also going to throw off your results). So, if you really must use an extension cable, keep it as short as possible, make sure you use a good quality cable (one with the shielding appropriate for a microphone cable), and don't be surprised if your results are off a little bit.  I just want to thank Ansat and everyone else who gave suggestions on how to get the most out of Dirac. I took advantage of the "Snow Day" yesterday to re-run Dirac and get everything set up. My first run through I had AGC turned on and used much too low of a mic position. I used ear height for the "sweet spot" and 3" above seat cushion for the low spots. I also found out that things work much better via boot camp with a hard wired connection. I got flakey results with wi-fi. I re-ran the system hardwired, with AGC turned off and made sure that even the "low" positions were above the back of my theater chairs. "High" spots were a good 1-2 feet above the back of the chair. I also put the mic a bit wider left and right for the outer positions. I can say the the updated technique give far superior results. The first run Dirac was considerably softer and not as lively. (Although better than just measurement and levels set with a Radio Shack Meter). The current status gives me a really nice sound stage. I often find myself checking if I have the audio mode set to stereo or just out of my center channel, since things seem to be staged in the center of my room better. I also thought that this would be the best solution for an extension cable. No worries about USB length adn XLR was designed to prevent interference for long runs, correct? When I was having issues getting Dirac to run properly on my Mac (using Virtual Box-had NO issues with VMWare Fusion), I mentioned (on the phone) that I had tried using an XLR cable to extend the reach (mine is an iMac, not a laptop) of the mic to Keith, and he wasted NO time in strongly advising against using the XLR cable. If I remember correctly he was concerned that it would change the response of the mic in some way. What I am positive about is his conviction that a USB cable is the way to go if one needs to extend the reach of the microphone. |
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,256
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Post by KeithL on Jan 28, 2015 11:32:18 GMT -5
It's in the FAQ now. (It will also be in the manual after the next update.) I have run dirac at least 10 times, some with slightly different speaker placements, but most with the same speaker placements but different mic placements. The speaker graphs were all pretty consistent in frequency and spectral readings and for that matter the sound was better than non dirac. I read Tony,s suggestion about turning off the AGC, and the difference was not small, the graphs were different in frequency and the sound was different in a very good way. The AGC did not just effect levels, but the frequency readings were changed, some significantly. Emotiva, should make this well known, as I am sure a lot of people could benifit from this information. I will run Dirac again soon to confirm the significance of the difference between AGC on and off. Agreed. If I had not read this, I would have run Dirac with AGC and assumed everything was fine. Even with AGC it sounded great to me. But big difference without it. This should be on their FAQ. |
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Post by barrak on Jan 28, 2015 11:42:27 GMT -5
Just to be clear on the situation with using extended XLR cables.... ALL cables have some capacitance, and changing the capacitance of the cable WILL alter the response of the microphone - at least a little. The output of a microphone is a lot different than a line level output; the level of a microphone's output is MUCH lower than line level, and the microphone is simply NOT designed to drive long cables like a line output is. It's quite likely that a good quality cable less than ten feet or so long won't make a significant difference to the response of the microphone, but that will depend on the capacitance of the particular cable you use, and you've also got the possibility of the cable picking up noise (a little cable hum is also going to throw off your results). So, if you really must use an extension cable, keep it as short as possible, make sure you use a good quality cable (one with the shielding appropriate for a microphone cable), and don't be surprised if your results are off a little bit. When I was having issues getting Dirac to run properly on my Mac (using Virtual Box-had NO issues with VMWare Fusion), I mentioned (on the phone) that I had tried using an XLR cable to extend the reach (mine is an iMac, not a laptop) of the mic to Keith, and he wasted NO time in strongly advising against using the XLR cable. If I remember correctly he was concerned that it would change the response of the mic in some way. What I am positive about is his conviction that a USB cable is the way to go if one needs to extend the reach of the microphone. Quick question, Keith... Some users mentioned unsuccessful USB cable extention attempts. Is it a matter of requiring specifically USB 3.0 cables, or is it simply lack of minimal shielding/defects in cheap cables? |
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,256
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Post by KeithL on Jan 28, 2015 12:46:43 GMT -5
Any standard USB 2.0 cable should work... and there are no "special requirements". However, USB in general can be a bit fussy, and many USB devices simply won't work with certain cables (especially long ones). (I've always had good luck with the Amazon Basics ones - they seem to be well made and the price is right, although I haven't specifically tried their male-female extension cables.) Just to be clear on the situation with using extended XLR cables.... ALL cables have some capacitance, and changing the capacitance of the cable WILL alter the response of the microphone - at least a little. The output of a microphone is a lot different than a line level output; the level of a microphone's output is MUCH lower than line level, and the microphone is simply NOT designed to drive long cables like a line output is. It's quite likely that a good quality cable less than ten feet or so long won't make a significant difference to the response of the microphone, but that will depend on the capacitance of the particular cable you use, and you've also got the possibility of the cable picking up noise (a little cable hum is also going to throw off your results). So, if you really must use an extension cable, keep it as short as possible, make sure you use a good quality cable (one with the shielding appropriate for a microphone cable), and don't be surprised if your results are off a little bit. Quick question, Keith... Some users mentioned unsuccessful USB cable extention attempts. Is it a matter of requiring specifically USB 3.0 cables, or is it simply lack of minimal shielding/defects in cheap cables? |
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LCSeminole
Global Moderator
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,847
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Post by LCSeminole on Jan 28, 2015 13:41:49 GMT -5
I've run DIRAC LE countless times with a Monoprice 15ft USB 2.0 extension cable and I've not run into any problems.
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Post by compositedude on Jan 28, 2015 14:23:49 GMT -5
I purchased and used a KabelDirekt (10 feet) USB 3.0 Extension Cable from Amazon at $7 and had success -- not saying a 2.0 extension would not work but this was the right price and removed any concern over 2.0 vs 3.0.
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Post by rogersch on Jan 28, 2015 22:41:34 GMT -5
Just to be clear on the situation with using extended XLR cables.... ALL cables have some capacitance, and changing the capacitance of the cable WILL alter the response of the microphone - at least a little. The output of a microphone is a lot different than a line level output; the level of a microphone's output is MUCH lower than line level, and the microphone is simply NOT designed to drive long cables like a line output is. It's quite likely that a good quality cable less than ten feet or so long won't make a significant difference to the response of the microphone, but that will depend on the capacitance of the particular cable you use, and you've also got the possibility of the cable picking up noise (a little cable hum is also going to throw off your results). So, if you really must use an extension cable, keep it as short as possible, make sure you use a good quality cable (one with the shielding appropriate for a microphone cable), and don't be surprised if your results are off a little bit. Quick question, Keith... Some users mentioned unsuccessful USB cable extention attempts. Is it a matter of requiring specifically USB 3.0 cables, or is it simply lack of minimal shielding/defects in cheap cables? Well I didn't buy specific a "USB-3" cable but that was what the web-shop had available at that moment , a needed to order also some other things there so there were no extra shipping costs,and it was not that expensive (€7,5). |
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Post by zarthaz on Jan 28, 2015 23:07:23 GMT -5
Mmmm, I tried an XLR cable as an extension and that seems to be working. Was able to go into the Dirac interface where you set the levels etc, where as with an USB extension cable I can't get that far.
I didn't set up Dirac and just unplugged the mic and closed the Dirac program.
After I did that I could still hear the Dirac test tone softly in my left speakers, and had to cycle the power to get rid of that. Putting unit in Standby doesn't fix it, have to cycle the power switch on the rear.
Also when I unplugged the XLR/USB cable from the Emo Mic end, the internal plug interface inserted into the mic end came out. There seems to be just a slight bit of glue that holds it inside the mic.
Wrapped a bit of sticky tape around it and pushed it back in, not very good ehehe, didn't pull really hard on it at all to pull out the XLR plug. Be careful guys when unplugging the XLR cable, just seem to be 2 thin wires with about an inch or so slack on it, could easily rip the soldered connections off.
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Post by barrak on Jan 29, 2015 20:51:40 GMT -5
Upon reading your suggestion, I just daisy-chained three 3-ft XLR cables between the mic and its own cable. Dirac software still recognized the mic and allowed me to load my saved projects. My Seaton surrounds sould be delivered today and I intend to redo my measurements tonight with these cable extensions as they will eliminate the need to relocate my PC closer to the couch. I'll report the results and comparisons with previous measurements, back in this space. For the record, the three cables used were two twisted-pair KimberKable runs and a shielded Transparent AES/EBU cable. Thanks, I'll be looking for your results. geebo, Did a complete cycle of measurements and filter programming using the three mentioned XLR extensions in series. All worked fine and the results after a quick listen to movie tracks did not show any unwanted artifacts. Here is a sampler plot... LR measurements with and without the XLR extenders. Using the supplied mic cable alone:  After adding three daisy-chained XLR cables:  |
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Post by ansat on Jan 29, 2015 21:07:51 GMT -5
Thanks, I'll be looking for your results. geebo, Did a complete cycle of measurements and filter programming using the three mentioned XLR extensions in series. All worked fine and the results after a quick listen to movie tracks did not show any unwanted artifacts. Here is a sampler plot... LR measurements with and without the XLR extenders. Using the supplied mic cable alone: View AttachmentAfter adding three daisy-chained XLR cables: View AttachmentLooks pretty consistent to me. Thanks barrak |
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Post by geebo on Jan 29, 2015 23:05:44 GMT -5
Thanks, I'll be looking for your results. geebo, Did a complete cycle of measurements and filter programming using the three mentioned XLR extensions in series. All worked fine and the results after a quick listen to movie tracks did not show any unwanted artifacts. Here is a sampler plot... LR measurements with and without the XLR extenders. Using the supplied mic cable alone: View AttachmentAfter adding three daisy-chained XLR cables: View AttachmentThanks for posting that. I had been thinking of using a 4 ft XLR and after seeing your results with 3 daisy chained cables I see no reason not to. Thanks again. |
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