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Post by texthai on Jan 11, 2015 9:17:14 GMT -5
I searched and did not find anything on this. Has anybody tried the Headphone output on the XMC-1 with good quality headphones? Is there enough power there to drive
some of the higher quality headphones? Does it have a built in headphone amp?
Sorry if these are stupid questions or discussed fully elsewhere.
Please point me in that direction if that is the case.
Thanks and all the best,
God Bless,
Wayne
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Post by XTC on Jan 11, 2015 10:39:21 GMT -5
I tried the Grado PS1000's with the XMC-1 headphone jack. They're impedance is 30 ohms so they aren't difficult to drive and the XMC-1 was adequate. Something like the Sennheiser HD 800 with an impedance of 300 ohms might be a challenge for it but I haven't tried them. I much prefer the Woo WA22 headphone amp for my Grados. I would say the XMC-1 headphone amp is comparable to my old Denon AVR-3808ci or, for that matter, almost any other mid to high end receiver or processor. It's main function is to drive speakers, not headphones. If you have mid to low end headphones it's good, but if you invested in high end headphones I would suggest a dedicated headphone amp. So you know where I'm coming from, during the winter I listen to speakers, but in the summer my room has too much ambient noise, open windows, air conditioner, etc. so I'm strictly headphones for critical listening. I highly recommend the XMC-1 for HT use or 2.0 music, it's simply unbeatable at it's price point, just not for headphones.
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Post by jt357 on Jan 11, 2015 11:44:44 GMT -5
I used the XMC-1 Headphone output with my AKG Q701. The sound was very clear and allowed me to hear well into the mix. However, I thought the low end was lacking. The interesting part for me, I use the AKG's with the Headphone output of my Sansui Au-317 integrated amp and feel the bass is quite satisfying.
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Post by vcautokid on Jan 11, 2015 11:53:17 GMT -5
All Emotiva headphone stages especially recent models drive headphones of various makes well. You should not any difficulties driving Senns etc. The high current output of the headphone stage assures easy drive.
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Post by namikis on Jul 25, 2016 18:45:09 GMT -5
I used the XMC-1 Headphone output with my AKG Q701. The sound was very clear and allowed me to hear well into the mix. However, I thought the low end was lacking. The interesting part for me, I use the AKG's with the Headphone output of my Sansui Au-317 integrated amp and feel the bass is quite satisfying. Exactly my experience as well with the Oppo PM-3s. The headphone section is weak on bass and not very powerful. Surprised others have not highlighted this. Not acceptable for a $2500 pre/pro, IMO. |
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LCSeminole
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Res firma mitescere nescit.
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Post by LCSeminole on Jul 25, 2016 18:56:32 GMT -5
I used the XMC-1 Headphone output with my AKG Q701. The sound was very clear and allowed me to hear well into the mix. However, I thought the low end was lacking. The interesting part for me, I use the AKG's with the Headphone output of my Sansui Au-317 integrated amp and feel the bass is quite satisfying. Exactly my experience as well with the Oppo PM-3s. The headphone section is weak on bass and not very powerful. Surprised others have not highlighted this. Not acceptable for a $2500 pre/pro, IMO. While I myself have said the XMC-1 headphone output wasn't strong enough for my Sennheisers, I would venture to guess that not many pre/pro owners have the headphone output as a high priority on their list of features, but I could also be wrong in assuming this. Again just my opinion as an XMC-1 owner. |
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Post by namikis on Jul 25, 2016 19:16:54 GMT -5
Exactly my experience as well with the Oppo PM-3s. The headphone section is weak on bass and not very powerful. Surprised others have not highlighted this. Not acceptable for a $2500 pre/pro, IMO. While I myself have said the XMC-1 headphone output wasn't strong enough for my Sennheisers, I would venture to guess that not many pre/pro owners have the headphone output as a high priority on their list of features, but I could also be wrong in assuming this. Again just my opinion as an XMC-1 owner. The specs brag about the headphone section: "1 – high quality headphone output (using TPA-6130)" - the TI chip is known to be good, produces a decent 138mw. Why the weak bass? why (on top of that) make a design decision to prevent access to the great parametric equalizer for the phones section? The headphone output on my old Denon receiver was better. |
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Post by geebo on Jul 25, 2016 19:26:15 GMT -5
While I myself have said the XMC-1 headphone output wasn't strong enough for my Sennheisers, I would venture to guess that not many pre/pro owners have the headphone output as a high priority on their list of features, but I could also be wrong in assuming this. Again just my opinion as an XMC-1 owner. The specs brag about the headphone section: "1 – high quality headphone output (using TPA-6130)" - the TI chip is known to be good, produces a decent 138mw. Why the weak bass? why (on top of that) make a design decision to prevent access to the great parametric equalizer for the phones section? The headphone output on my old Denon receiver was better. I have the PM-2s and don't think the bass is weak with the XMC-1. If anything, the high end is a bit too laid back. I do however, prefer the headphone amp of the DC-1. |
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Jul 25, 2016 19:49:08 GMT -5
While I myself have said the XMC-1 headphone output wasn't strong enough for my Sennheisers, I would venture to guess that not many pre/pro owners have the headphone output as a high priority on their list of features, but I could also be wrong in assuming this. Again just my opinion as an XMC-1 owner. The specs brag about the headphone section: "1 – high quality headphone output (using TPA-6130)" - the TI chip is known to be good, produces a decent 138mw. Why the weak bass? why (on top of that) make a design decision to prevent access to the great parametric equalizer for the phones section? The headphone output on my old Denon receiver was better. I'm not arguing the specs on the XMC-1's headphone output, I simply stated I didn't buy the XMC-1 for it's headphone output, nor would I miss it if it didn't have one. While it's output was only adequate for my Sennheisers, it was quite robust sounding for my Phiaton MS430 cans, and in my opinion acceptable for a pre-pro. Since it doesn't give me the volume I want with my Sennheisers, I've been using the DC-1 for my headphone listening, and when the A-100 integrated amp with headphone output comes out I'll be using that exclusively for a headphone amp. |
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Post by namikis on Jul 25, 2016 19:58:10 GMT -5
The specs brag about the headphone section: "1 – high quality headphone output (using TPA-6130)" - the TI chip is known to be good, produces a decent 138mw. Why the weak bass? why (on top of that) make a design decision to prevent access to the great parametric equalizer for the phones section? The headphone output on my old Denon receiver was better. I'm not arguing the specs on the XMC-1's headphone output, I simply stated I didn't buy the XMC-1 for it's headphone output, nor would I miss it if it didn't have one. While it's output was only adequate for my Sennheisers, it was quite robust sounding for my Phiaton MS430 cans, and in my opinion acceptable for a pre-pro. Since it doesn't give me the volume I want with my Sennheisers, I've been using the DC-1 for my headphone listening, and when the A-100 integrated amp with headphone output comes out I'll be using that exclusively for a headphone amp. Ok - thanks for clarifying. I will continue testing using other headphones (the PM-3s can be tough to drive, IMO) and report back. I usually bypass the headphone section and use outboard DAC/headphone amps as you do with the DC1, but do not have one in the home theater and had not tested the XMC-1's built in output. |
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Post by namikis on Jul 26, 2016 18:13:32 GMT -5
I'm not arguing the specs on the XMC-1's headphone output, I simply stated I didn't buy the XMC-1 for it's headphone output, nor would I miss it if it didn't have one. While it's output was only adequate for my Sennheisers, it was quite robust sounding for my Phiaton MS430 cans, and in my opinion acceptable for a pre-pro. Since it doesn't give me the volume I want with my Sennheisers, I've been using the DC-1 for my headphone listening, and when the A-100 integrated amp with headphone output comes out I'll be using that exclusively for a headphone amp. Ok - thanks for clarifying. I will continue testing using other headphones (the PM-3s can be tough to drive, IMO) and report back. I usually bypass the headphone section and use outboard DAC/headphone amps as you do with the DC1, but do not have one in the home theater and had not tested the XMC-1's built in output. Today I tested the Oppo PM-3 headphones with the Hifiman EF2A outboard amp and they sound great with that as a source, *but* I note that I had to move the volume control to 2-3 o'clock vs the 11/noon position I use with most cans on that amp.... So the Oppos appear to be tough to drive. I also tested the Audio Technica ATH-M50x cans with the Emotiva XMC-1 headphone output and it sounds *very* decent, good bass and respectable imaging. Same result with the Koss PortaPros. I conclude from this that the XMC-1 headphone output can work fine with typical efficient cans, but may have trouble with less efficient closed back planar magnetic units like the PM-3. Also probable that impedance differences between cans playa big role in how the TI chip can transfer power to the drivers (the ATH-M50Xs at 38 vs. the Oppo's 26 ohms). Note that an earlier poster reported good results with the Oppo PM-2 s, which are also planar magnetic but have an open-back design with a much larger oval driver (but specs out the same efficiency as the PM-3s - 102db with 1 mw in, with a tad higher impedance at 32 ohms). I hope this info helps folks considering the XMC-1 and interested in occasional headphone listening (as when the baby is taking a nap or the rest of the house does not wish to be disturbed!). I maintain the recommendation that Emotiva consider allowing the parametric equalizers to be used when the headphones are plugged in, perhaps through a future firmware update. I am sure the headfi crowd would appreciate that  . Thanks, Nam |
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Post by garbulky on Jul 27, 2016 11:46:05 GMT -5
While I myself have said the XMC-1 headphone output wasn't strong enough for my Sennheisers, I would venture to guess that not many pre/pro owners have the headphone output as a high priority on their list of features, but I could also be wrong in assuming this. Again just my opinion as an XMC-1 owner. The specs brag about the headphone section: "1 – high quality headphone output (using TPA-6130)" - the TI chip is known to be good, produces a decent 138mw. Why the weak bass? why (on top of that) make a design decision to prevent access to the great parametric equalizer for the phones section? The headphone output on my old Denon receiver was better. 138 mw at how many ohms though? if it's just 32 ohms, that's not terribly great for higher impedance units. |
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Post by namikis on Jul 27, 2016 12:00:57 GMT -5
The specs brag about the headphone section: "1 – high quality headphone output (using TPA-6130)" - the TI chip is known to be good, produces a decent 138mw. Why the weak bass? why (on top of that) make a design decision to prevent access to the great parametric equalizer for the phones section? The headphone output on my old Denon receiver was better. 138 mw at how many ohms though? if it's just 32 ohms, that's not terribly great for higher impedance units. Per the TI data sheet: "The TPA6130A2 is a stereo DirectPath™ headphone amplifier with I2C digital volume control. The TPA6130A2 has minimal quiescent current consumption, with a typical IDD of 4 mA, making it optimal for portable applications. The I2C control allows maximum flexibility with a 64 step audio taper volume control, channel independent enables and mutes, and the ability to configure the outputs into stereo, dual mono, or a single receiver speaker BTL amplifier that drives 300 mW of power into 16 Ω loads." Loos like the chip was not intended for high end applications or driving power hungry cans - the target market was wireless handsets, laptops and portable media players - where small size (and avoiding the need for coupling caps - Texas instruments used to call that feature "CapFree" - now it is branded as "DirectPath" ) is the priority: www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9uiRPvn6FENamikis |
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Post by namikis on Jul 27, 2016 12:10:37 GMT -5
138 mw at how many ohms though? if it's just 32 ohms, that's not terribly great for higher impedance units. Per the TI data sheet: "The TPA6130A2 is a stereo DirectPath™ headphone amplifier with I2C digital volume control. The TPA6130A2 has minimal quiescent current consumption, with a typical IDD of 4 mA, making it optimal for portable applications. The I2C control allows maximum flexibility with a 64 step audio taper volume control, channel independent enables and mutes, and the ability to configure the outputs into stereo, dual mono, or a single receiver speaker BTL amplifier that drives 300 mW of power into 16 Ω loads." Loos like the chip was not intended for high end applications or driving power hungry cans - the target market was wireless handsets, laptops and portable media players - where small size (and avoiding the need for coupling caps - Texas instruments used to call that feature "CapFree" - now it is branded as "DirectPath" ) is the priority: www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9uiRPvn6FENamikis  Attachments:
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Post by texthai on Jul 27, 2016 13:59:54 GMT -5
Well, I started this thread, and thought it was dead. It seems to have come back to life, and I find myself guilty of doing what others do, which bugs me: I never got back with my conclusions/actions. I ended up buying some HiFiMan HE-400i cans that I really like. And I agree with the conclusions others have shared above,. I too do not think the headphone output of the XMC-1 is worthy of audiophile headphones, at least not planar magnetic style ones, or at least did not do it for me. I just find it barely "adequate". So I bought a hybrid headphone amp (toooobs!!!) from Vincent, the KHV-1. www.vincent-tac.de/en/product-lines/tubeline/khv-1/The combo of the HiFiMan cans and the hybrid amp is just clean, clear, natural, warm yet articulate, full (BIG) sounding, and totally musical. I am sure others will have better gear, but for me and my money, this is a great combo. I mean, it is ONLY stereo, not my bag really, but sounds great when you cannot listen on the home theater. Hope this is helpful to someone, God Bless, Wayne |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jul 27, 2016 14:33:16 GMT -5
A word about headphones and headphone outputs..... Headphones and headphone outputs come in a wide variety of different styles. In the old days, the headphone output of most receivers was derived directly from the speaker outputs - through a series resistor. This had the benefit of providing plenty of power to drive most headphones of the time (there weren't any low-efficiency planars back then). However, it also had a few drawbacks. For one thing, even quiet speaker amps usually have a noise floor that is high enough that they aren't totally silent with high-efficiency headphones. For another thing, the impedance of the series resistor interacts with the impedance of your headphones, producing unpredictable changes in the sound signature. (It will sound different with different headphones, so it will sound great with some, and not so great with others.) NOTE: For those of you who like "the vintage headphone sound", our new BASX A-100 integrated amp has this type of headphone output, and a few other neat features. And, because it's main outputs are VERY quiet, you don't have to worry about the noise floor. (Stay tuned for details  ). Most modern equipment uses a separate headphone output, powered by its own dedicated amplifier, and providing a low impedance output (no large dropping resistors).... and this is how we do it in the XMC-1. The TI headphone amplifier that we use in the XMC-1 is in fact a very high quality amplifier. It has very low distortion, a relatively low output impedance, and produces very little noise. Therefore, with "average" headphones, it sounds very good. However, it does have a limited voltage swing (which limits the output with very high impedance phones), and it does have a limited output power (which limits its output with very low efficiency phones), and, since it's a modern direct-connected amplifier, with a low output impedance, it tends to deliver an accurate sound (it doesn't sound very different with different headphones, like the headphone outputs of vintage receivers do). To be fair, the headphone output in the XMC-1 is about as good as most separate headphone amplifiers in the $50 to $100 price range. Just as with the phono preamp (which we omitted), we didn't feel justified in spending more than that on a feature which would only be important to a few customers. Obviously, for those of you who care a lot about headphone listening, or have phones with "special requirements", you can easily spend more for a "premium" headphone amplifier than the entire price of the XMC-1.... Go for it, and spend the extra money on one you really like. |
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Post by davidl81 on May 28, 2021 20:24:19 GMT -5
I’m highjacking this old thread. I’ve got a RMC-1 and want to get the Emotiva GR-1 headphones. Right now my music sources are a Bluesound Node 2i and a Schitt Sol TT. Everything runs through the RMC-1, so is the headphone output in the RMC good enough for the Emotiva headphones? If not what would be the best way to run a headphone amp? My guess would be the Zone 2 outputs to a separate amp, but that’s not ideal I would think.
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