In need of Dirac measurement screenshots (analysis complete)

[ansat]

From your desktop, hit the windows key (or click on the windows icon at the lower left) , and start typing snipping. It will show up on the right hand side of the screen.

[barrak]

Finally got some of my Seaton speakers this Friday and installed my XMC-1 after sitting in its box since before Christmas. Setup is 3.1; 3x Catalyst 12C and Master-Slave Submersives in mono. These are initial measurements with mic AGC On (forgot to turn it off with all the excitement).

PS. ansat, you might wanna spell out where and how to turn AGC off in the Dirac FAQ.

[barrak]

Here are the impulse responses

[ansat]

Jan 18, 2015 12:16:22 GMT -5 barrak said:

PS. ansat, you might wanna spell out where and how to turn AGC off in the Dirac FAQ.

Done -- link

[thompson12]

Tony couldn't PM the pics, here's the graph of the EMO ERT-8.3"s as mains and then swapped out with the Swan Diva 2.1" as mains

ERT 8.3



Swan 2.1

[PAC]

Three subs summed onto the left SW channel after phase adjusted on two subs.


I've run DIRAC now about 6 times at different mic locations and heights including the patterns and heights suggested by ansat and others. All of the DIRAC runs sound as if they are lacking warmth and bass, especially with movies, compared to my preset with levels and distances set manually.

Thanks Tony!

(mic straight up!)

[XTC]

Here you go:

Attachments:

[weigle2]

OK Tony. Please don't keep us hanging on what pattern you suspect shows in all the Dirac samples. Not complaining, just really interested on what you think is going on.

By the way, I really can't say enough about all the help you provide to anyone on the forum.

[vs890]

These are my measurements.
Front speakers: Stealth 8, set to large. I am rather disappointed with the high frequency response (Is this the anomaly you are looking for?). The difference between left and right baffles me. My room is more or less symetrical. Many reflecting surfaces: hardwood floor, windows left and right, no curtains, no carpeting. 
Surround speakers: Airmotiv 5's
Center: Circle 3 active monitor.
Sub: MJ Acoustics 100

[socketman]

Jan 18, 2015 14:20:26 GMT -5 PAC said:

View Attachment
View Attachment
View Attachment

Three subs summed onto the left SW channel after phase adjusted on two subs.
View Attachment

I've run DIRAC now about 6 times at different mic locations and heights including the patterns and heights suggested by ansat and others. All of the DIRAC runs sound as if they are lacking warmth and bass, especially with movies, compared to my preset with levels and distances set manually.

Thanks Tony!

Ultimately what we like to hear as humans with 2 ears is not what a microphone hears. A flat response seldom sounds good to us , so when we get the full version and have control over the response we want you will be able to get the sound you want. FWIW to me my car system sounds great but other people think otherwise, its all about personal preference.


BTW how many people here are using Tony's Mic cal file with Dirac?

[barrak]

Jan 18, 2015 18:47:07 GMT -5 socketman said:

Jan 18, 2015 14:20:26 GMT -5 PAC said:

Three subs summed onto the left SW channel after phase adjusted on two subs.


I've run DIRAC now about 6 times at different mic locations and heights including the patterns and heights suggested by ansat and others. All of the DIRAC runs sound as if they are lacking warmth and bass, especially with movies, compared to my preset with levels and distances set manually.

Thanks Tony!

Ultimately what we like to hear as humans with 2 ears is not what a microphone hears. A flat response seldom sounds good to us , so when we get the full version and have control over the response we want you will be able to get the sound you want. FWIW to me my car system sounds great but other people think otherwise, its all about personal preference.


BTW how many people here are using Tony's Mic cal file with Dirac?

Actually, the curve Dirac chose for us is not bad at all. It is fairly straight from 20 Hz to 20 KHz with an overall ~5 dB drop. A few years ago Harman International conducted and published a study about a controlled experiment involving target curve preferences. They concluded that a straight target curve (similar to Dirac's) was best pleasing for the chosen critical listeners, albeit with an overall drop of 10 dB.

Until Full Dirac is available, I would suggest that XMC-1 users raise the sub level (after programming the filters) by 3-6 dB. That should bring the bass back in full force. I wouldn't go any higher though.

[socketman]

Jan 18, 2015 19:25:27 GMT -5 barrak said:

Jan 18, 2015 18:47:07 GMT -5 socketman said:

Ultimately what we like to hear as humans with 2 ears is not what a microphone hears. A flat response seldom sounds good to us , so when we get the full version and have control over the response we want you will be able to get the sound you want. FWIW to me my car system sounds great but other people think otherwise, its all about personal preference.


BTW how many people here are using Tony's Mic cal file with Dirac?

Actually, the curve Dirac chose for us is not bad at all. It is fairly straight from 20 Hz to 20 KHz with an overall ~5 dB drop. A few years ago Harman International conducted and published a study about a controlled experiment involving target curve preferences. They concluded that a straight target curve (similar to Dirac's) was best pleasing for the chosen critical listeners, albeit with an overall drop of 10 dB.

Until Full Dirac is available, I would suggest that XMC-1 users raise the sub level (after programming the filters) by 3-6 dB. That should bring the bass back in full force. I wouldn't go any higher though.

I have seen the Harman paper at some point , but...... I don't think I can consider myself a critical listener in the classic sense, I just like what I like. Also I am not saying Emo's curve is a bad curve but it is a compromise of sorts that can not possibly suit all rooms, music genre and listeners where 2 channel is concerned.

[Axis]

Jan 18, 2015 19:25:27 GMT -5 barrak said:

Jan 18, 2015 18:47:07 GMT -5 socketman said:

Ultimately what we like to hear as humans with 2 ears is not what a microphone hears. A flat response seldom sounds good to us , so when we get the full version and have control over the response we want you will be able to get the sound you want. FWIW to me my car system sounds great but other people think otherwise, its all about personal preference.


BTW how many people here are using Tony's Mic cal file with Dirac?

Actually, the curve Dirac chose for us is not bad at all. It is fairly straight from 20 Hz to 20 KHz with an overall ~5 dB drop. A few years ago Harman International conducted and published a study about a controlled experiment involving target curve preferences. They concluded that a straight target curve (similar to Dirac's) was best pleasing for the chosen critical listeners, albeit with an overall drop of 10 dB.

Until Full Dirac is available, I would suggest that XMC-1 users raise the sub level (after programming the filters) by 3-6 dB. That should bring the bass back in full force. I wouldn't go any higher though.

Actually thinking this very thing today as I was taking my 2 hour walk with my new Walkman and headphones. I have been playing with the equalizer, boosting the lows and highs. I went back to flat and after awhile enjoyed how pleasant the sound became. Was reading this thread this morning and this very thing went through my head. Dirac is just making it close to flat. This should be interesting. I wonder, I wonder.

[barrak]

Jan 18, 2015 20:06:10 GMT -5 Axis said:

Jan 18, 2015 19:25:27 GMT -5 barrak said:

Actually, the curve Dirac chose for us is not bad at all. It is fairly straight from 20 Hz to 20 KHz with an overall ~5 dB drop. A few years ago Harman International conducted and published a study about a controlled experiment involving target curve preferences. They concluded that a straight target curve (similar to Dirac's) was best pleasing for the chosen critical listeners, albeit with an overall drop of 10 dB.

Until Full Dirac is available, I would suggest that XMC-1 users raise the sub level (after programming the filters) by 3-6 dB. That should bring the bass back in full force. I wouldn't go any higher though.

Actually thinking this very thing today as I was taking my 2 hour walk with my new Walkman and headphones. I have been playing with the equalizer, boosting the lows and highs. I went back to flat and after awhile enjoyed how pleasant the sound became. Was reading this thread this morning and this very thing went through my head. Dirac is just making it close to flat. This should be interesting. I wonder, I wonder.

Headphone listening as well as near field studio monitoring have their own pecular dynamics that differ from normal music/HT room listening. Furthemore, some speaker systems have their own natural frequency rolloff that affects which target curve to use. For example,line-array speakers and electrostats change their behavior with frequency and distance in a different way than a near point-source speaker. Add to that listener preference, room size/acoustics, multiply located subs, bipolar/dipolar designs and you'll start to sympathize with Dirac designers and their choices.

[Axis]

Jan 18, 2015 20:40:56 GMT -5 barrak said:

Jan 18, 2015 20:06:10 GMT -5 Axis said:

Actually thinking this very thing today as I was taking my 2 hour walk with my new Walkman and headphones. I have been playing with the equalizer, boosting the lows and highs. I went back to flat and after awhile enjoyed how pleasant the sound became. Was reading this thread this morning and this very thing went through my head. Dirac is just making it close to flat. This should be interesting. I wonder, I wonder.

Headphone listening as well as near field studio monitoring have their own pecular dynamics that differ from normal music/HT room listening. Furthemore, some speaker systems have their own natural frequency rolloff that affects which target curve to use. For example,line-array speakers and electrostats change their behavior with frequency and distance in a different way than a near point-source speaker. Add to that listener preference, room size/acoustics, multiply located subs, bipolar/dipolar designs and you'll start to sympathize with Dirac designers and their choices.

This is not a response to you Barrak, but please do not over analyze this folks !

[Gary Cook]

Jan 18, 2015 14:20:26 GMT -5 PAC said:

All of the DIRAC runs sound as if they are lacking warmth and bass, especially with movies, compared to my preset with levels and distances set manually.

My view (looking at the graph) is that uncorrected your subs are giving a 5db lift between 30 and 60 hz, which is where a lot of bass information from movies resides. You have become accustomed to that and when DIRAC takes out the 5db lift you notice it, especially if you are listening to familiar samples. It seems, from the comments posted that a -5db curve with increasing frequencies may not be ideal for some people. The Harman curve, as barrack mentioned, with a 10db curve might well be more acceptable. In the interim a 3 to 6db lift in subwoofer volume would be worth a try.


Cheers
Gary

[tubby]

Jan 18, 2015 19:25:27 GMT -5 barrak said:

Jan 18, 2015 18:47:07 GMT -5 socketman said:

Ultimately what we like to hear as humans with 2 ears is not what a microphone hears. A flat response seldom sounds good to us , so when we get the full version and have control over the response we want you will be able to get the sound you want. FWIW to me my car system sounds great but other people think otherwise, its all about personal preference.


BTW how many people here are using Tony's Mic cal file with Dirac?

Actually, the curve Dirac chose for us is not bad at all. It is fairly straight from 20 Hz to 20 KHz with an overall ~5 dB drop. A few years ago Harman International conducted and published a study about a controlled experiment involving target curve preferences. They concluded that a straight target curve (similar to Dirac's) was best pleasing for the chosen critical listeners, albeit with an overall drop of 10 dB.

Until Full Dirac is available, I would suggest that XMC-1 users raise the sub level (after programming the filters) by 3-6 dB. That should bring the bass back in full force. I wouldn't go any higher though.

I agree with your sentiment in regards to the Dirac target curve but don't confuse target curve with microphone calibration. The calibration file for the mic is to ensure the measurement is correct. if the measurement is not correct it does not matter what the target is because the correction will not be correct.

I would also say that it would not be appropriate to use a calibration file that is not specifically created for you mic. There can be large enough variation between mics that they require a specific calibration for each mic. This is why mini dsp has a serial number specific file available for it's mics and why Cross Spectrum calibration is so popular. As far as I can tell the calibration provided for the EMM is the same file for everyone, unless they have somehow tied the specific mic to the Dirac user key, not likely. But this means that to some degree or another not all the mics will provide the correct response to Dirac.

Here is an example between my Umik and the 90 Degree cal file from Mini DSP vs the EMM and the cal file provided in the Dirac download. This is Front left 80z crossover to subs. Tis tells me one of the cal files is not correct and I tend to believe the Mini DSP file more than the Emo one.

Attachments:

[tubby]

Here are mine. I will provide two sets. This first one is with the default EMM calibration file provided by Emotiva.

Attachments:

[tubby]

These are with my own calibration file created using the Umik response as the standard. ie make the EMM response match the Umik which I believe is correct. I also change to mono sub so only 1 sub measurement.

Attachments:

[socketman]

Jan 18, 2015 21:51:23 GMT -5 tubby said:

These are with my own calibration file created using the Umik response as the standard. ie make the EMM response match the Umik which I believe is correct. I also change to mono sub so only 1 sub measurement.

Im digging it , how does it sound .The graphs are pretty damn good.