klinemj
Emo VIPs 
Official Emofest Scribe
Posts: 15,094
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Post by klinemj on Jan 21, 2015 22:43:29 GMT -5
I LOVE watching paint dry!
(said no one ever anywhere...)
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Post by Gary Cook on Jan 21, 2015 22:47:54 GMT -5
I LOVE watching paint dry! (said no one ever anywhere...) I love watching paint dry, it means I've finished the painting  Cheers Gary |
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Post by autocrat on Jan 21, 2015 22:51:30 GMT -5
Can someone please post a Dirac frequency response graph, taken using the bog standard calibration file from one or more positions, that does not exhibit the high frequency drop off that the other graphs posted here show?
Thanks.
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Post by socketman on Jan 21, 2015 22:53:13 GMT -5
Typical forum problem, a handful of people don't like something and therefore that means everyone doesn't like it. There are several posts that claim "most people"................. seriously..................in comparison to the number who have bought XMC-1's, a hundred, a thousand, a handful of complaints is not "most", it's a minority, a tiny minority. It seems to me that the vast majority must be very happy, they're at home listening to the music. Cheers Gary Funny I don't see an XMC-1 listed in you equipment list. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Jan 21, 2015 22:55:32 GMT -5
Typical forum problem, a handful of people don't like something and therefore that means everyone doesn't like it. There are several posts that claim "most people"................. seriously..................in comparison to the number who have bought XMC-1's, a hundred, a thousand, a handful of complaints is not "most", it's a minority, a tiny minority. It seems to me that the vast majority must be very happy, they're at home listening to the music. Funny I don't see an XMC-1 listed in you equipment list. Funny, I don't see your equipment list (sorry, couldn't resist)  Cheers Gary |
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Lsc
Emo VIPs
Posts: 3,435
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Post by Lsc on Jan 21, 2015 23:00:23 GMT -5
I LOVE watching paint dry! (said no one ever anywhere...) I love watching paint dry, it means I've finished the painting Cheers Gary On second thought, I'm not running Dirac again until I get my F208's defective midrange replacement. I'm listening to my Revel F12 that are normally my surrounds...with Dirac, it's remarkable how much more 'high end' it sounds. And the integration with my single sub is fantastic. Just a little fatiguing  . I can't believe I gotta spend $99 on that darn upgrade  . I can see that it'll be dialed in just right with the $99 regular version. Oh well.  . Enjoying watching paint dry means you guys need something better to do  . Unless it's body paint . |
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Post by Jim on Jan 21, 2015 23:07:34 GMT -5
Typical forum problem, a handful of people don't like something and therefore that means everyone doesn't like it. There are several posts that claim "most people"................. seriously..................in comparison to the number who have bought XMC-1's, a hundred, a thousand, a handful of complaints is not "most", it's a minority, a tiny minority. It seems to me that the vast majority must be very happy, they're at home listening to the music. Cheers Gary I think if you re-read the last few pages - you'll see there is a legitimate technical issue being discussed. To say that this is just an example of silly complainers isn't really accurate. The majority of people could be happy- even with a real problem. That's really irrelevant to those that are trying to diagnose. |
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Post by socketman on Jan 21, 2015 23:09:03 GMT -5
Funny I don't see an XMC-1 listed in you equipment list. Funny, I don't see your equipment list (sorry, couldn't resist) Cheers Gary I don't feel the need to brag |
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cawgijoe
Emo VIPs
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
Posts: 5,035
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Post by cawgijoe on Jan 21, 2015 23:20:52 GMT -5
Dirac in the XMC-1 is much better than my previous Pioneer room correction system. MCACC bloated the bass and my center channel always need to be boosted by several Db so that I could hear what was being said.
That has all changed with Dirac. My Thiel center channel sounds great. My SVS sub is tight and the level is just right, I absolutely hate bloated bass.
I just wanted Keith and Emotiva to know that there are some out there that actually like this room correction system.
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Post by Jim on Jan 21, 2015 23:23:46 GMT -5
Water is wet.
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KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,273
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Post by KeithL on Jan 21, 2015 23:46:26 GMT -5
A fair and reasonable statement - and one which deserves an honest answer... We don't know for sure what you're experiencing. The performance of our microphones in general was tested by Dirac, who made up the correction curve we're using. Each microphone is actually tested for performance twice before it's sent out. (The factory that produces the microphone capsules themselves has quite good production quality control, but a few percent still fail to meet spec after they're mounted in the microphone body; any that fail are replaced and re-tested). These types of microphone capsules aren't especially delicate and, if they're mishandled badly enough in shipping, they're more likely to fail outright than to mysteriously change performance - so we really doubt that there are a whole bunch of off-spec microphones out there. We've run Dirac a lot (and I do mean A LOT), both in our theater rooms and in various offices, and it almost always produces correct and consistent results. As for what may cause Dirac to very occasionally "screw up" - that is difficult to know for sure. Dirac Live uses Dirac's own proprietary analysis and correction algorithms to determine what to correct, what NOT to correct, and how to optimally correct both frequency and time response at the same time. Because of the complexity of the math involved, I can easily imagine how specific combinations of measurement results could cause Dirac to "make a bad decision", or make a correction that "looks good on paper but sounds bad in person". I personally have never had Dirac produce a "bad correction" that couldn't be "fixed" by using slightly different microphone positions or moving a sub a few feet... but I don't at all doubt that it could happen. And I agree with you entirely - if it sounded bad with my system I wouldn't use it either... The fact remains, though, that, according to our tests, the microphones are correct and we get the results we expect whenever we test them or test Dirac WITH them. (To put it bluntly, we aren't able to replicate the problem, and we aren't going to change the calibration file so that it's right for the customers in this forum and wrong for everyone else.) We certainly don't mind if you change it, and that's one of the reasons why we're going to be offering the Full version - so you can use whatever microphone and calibration file you like, AND you can change the target curve as well. We will be genuinely sorry if a few percent of our customers can only achieve the results they like with the Full version and their own calibration or target curves... but I don't quite see what else we can do at this point. (And we can't just give you the full version because we license it - but we don't own it - so it isn't ours to give.) Finally, you must always keep in mind that the results you get when measuring frequency response will vary depending on your measurement method. For example, measurement with pink noise will produce a rather different result than if you use a chirp tone, and using windowing to exclude late reflections or all reflections will produce different reaults, even with the same chirp tone or impulse. Also, the Target Curve in Dirac Live LE was designed to produce a response that "sounds flat" in a typical room, based on how we humans hear, and a typical balance between direct and reflected sound; it is NOT designed to specifically produce a "true measured flat response" with any particular measurement method (in industry parlance, it does use a "house curve"). Keith, I have to say the response in the above post does not address what many of us, as your customers, are experiencing. The statement that "Second, just to put things in perspective, the vast majority of our customers who have used Dirac are very happy with the results. Most people DON'T find that, after running Dirac, their system sounds shrill or overly sharp, or thin and lifeless" does not correlate to what I have experienced and from the comments that some other customers have expressed. I do not have an odd room or weird speaker placement or esoteric speakers. As you have mentioned multiple times in your posts, it's how it SOUNDS that matters. I agree. So, if it sounds like the south end of a cow walking north smells, I chose to turn it off. When offered an alternative by one of our forum members that brings back life to what I hear, I consider it a path to get my XMC sounding good with Dirac. Sounds great flat too but as we do, I'm always searching for the best. And an answer to what we're experiencing. |
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cawgijoe
Emo VIPs
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
Posts: 5,035
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Post by cawgijoe on Jan 21, 2015 23:49:20 GMT -5
Typical forum problem, a handful of people don't like something and therefore that means everyone doesn't like it. There are several posts that claim "most people"................. seriously..................in comparison to the number who have bought XMC-1's, a hundred, a thousand, a handful of complaints is not "most", it's a minority, a tiny minority. It seems to me that the vast majority must be very happy, they're at home listening to the music. Cheers Gary I think if you re-read the last few pages - you'll see there is a legitimate technical issue being discussed. To say that this is just an example of silly complainers isn't really accurate. The majority of people could be happy- even with a real problem. That's really irrelevant to those that are trying to diagnose. So what you are saying is that the happy people have no clue. I suppose if the technical issue gets resolved, the happy people may even be happier! |
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Post by Jim on Jan 21, 2015 23:52:47 GMT -5
I think if you re-read the last few pages - you'll see there is a legitimate technical issue being discussed. To say that this is just an example of silly complainers isn't really accurate. The majority of people could be happy- even with a real problem. That's really irrelevant to those that are trying to diagnose. So what you are saying is that the happy people have no clue. I suppose if the technical issue gets resolved, the happy people may even be happier! Whatever floats your boat..... |
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cawgijoe
Emo VIPs
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
Posts: 5,035
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Post by cawgijoe on Jan 21, 2015 23:55:10 GMT -5
So what you are saying is that the happy people have no clue. I suppose if the technical issue gets resolved, the happy people may even be happier! Whatever floats your boat..... At this point, my boat is unsinkable! |
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Post by Jim on Jan 21, 2015 23:57:03 GMT -5
Whatever floats your boat..... At this point, my boat is unsinkable! Hello Titanic! |
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Post by Gary Cook on Jan 22, 2015 0:09:16 GMT -5
Typical forum problem, a handful of people don't like something and therefore that means everyone doesn't like it. There are several posts that claim "most people"................. seriously..................in comparison to the number who have bought XMC-1's, a hundred, a thousand, a handful of complaints is not "most", it's a minority, a tiny minority. It seems to me that the vast majority must be very happy, they're at home listening to the music. I think if you re-read the last few pages - you'll see there is a legitimate technical issue being discussed. I read every post on every page of this thread, very diligently, some more than once. I posted a review of the postings to that point on page 5. Where did I say anything about "silly complainers"? I think you may just be reading more into my post that what is actually there. The truth is some people are more sensitive to some frequencies than others. Some people like more bass than others. It doesn't mean that they are right or wrong, or silly for that matter, just have different preferences. Possibly, but it's equally possible that there is no problem. Absolutely, what is important is the data, not someone with 4 subwoofers unsubstantiated opinion that DIRAC is incorrectly dropping the bass. There is far more likelihood that DIRAC is spot on and that they simply prefer more bass. I have done hundreds of live show sound set ups in a lot of venues and my experience has been that it's very very rarely the equipment that's the problem. The operator is the most likely, including me, then the room/environment. So that's where I look first and foremost, once I've dismissed that then I look at the equipment. I'm afraid in this thread it seems to me that some people are onto the equipment first and only. Cheers Gary |
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cawgijoe
Emo VIPs
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
Posts: 5,035
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Post by cawgijoe on Jan 22, 2015 0:11:53 GMT -5
At this point, my boat is unsinkable! Hello Titanic! I knew that was coming! LoL |
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Post by rocky500 on Jan 22, 2015 0:15:10 GMT -5
I knew that was coming! LoL It was still pretty funny though. |
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Post by zarthaz on Jan 22, 2015 0:40:42 GMT -5
Been following this thread since I am still struggling with Dirac to make stuff sound good. My problem is opposite though, I have a muffled sounding system after Dirac.
Best results so far have been last attempt and for that one I set all my speakers to Large.
Surrounds are full size floorstanders and centre speaker is a big one too.
Bass is flabby, no punch and highs are surpressed with Dirac on and when I listen to stereo ( in 2.1 mode) it's far worse than in 5.1 mode. Unlistenable in 2.1 channel, so go back to Preset 1 which is unaltered apart from sound level matching and distances. No filter modifications. Don't like stereo reference mode as it just sounds too thin unless the volume goes right up hence using sub reinforcement for stereo listening
Will do another run at Dirac soon with Tony's cal file and see if it makes a difference ehe.
Cheers,
Z
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Post by rocky500 on Jan 22, 2015 0:47:18 GMT -5
Been following this thread since I am still struggling with Dirac to make stuff sound good. My problem is opposite though, I have a muffled sounding system after Dirac. Best results so far have been last attempt and for that one I set all my speakers to Large. Surrounds are full size floorstanders and centre speaker is a big one too. Bass is flabby, no punch and highs are surpressed with Dirac on and when I listen to stereo ( in 2.1 mode) it's far worse than in 5.1 mode. Unlistenable in 2.1 channel, so go back to Preset 1 which is unaltered apart from sound level matching and distances. No filter modifications. Don't like stereo reference mode as it just sounds too thin unless the volume goes right up hence using sub reinforcement for stereo listening Will do another run at Dirac soon with Tony's cal file and see if it makes a difference ehe. Cheers, Z Can you post screenshots of your Dirac screens/results? It might let us see what Dirac has to work with before it applies the filters. |
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. I can see that it'll be dialed in just right with the $99 regular version. Oh well. 
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. Unless it's body paint 
