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Post by adaboy on Jan 30, 2015 18:56:44 GMT -5
Ok, so I have a debut carbon dc with a Ortofon 2m red cartridge. I have been listening to the cartridge now for a few months while not bad for a $99 one the IGD sometimes grates my ears. I love the sound though and really like analytical listening sessions. So long story short I have had my heart set on a 2M Bronze and even ordered one from a local dealer on Monday for a great price $325.00 turns out today they aren't authorized by Ortofon and could not come through. I called around and couldn't find one for less than $440.00. Finally I goy frustrated and called the needle dr. after comparing and discussing with the nice guy, I ordered the Ortofon Quintet Red for $314.00. Feeling guilty since it too uses the same stylus as the 2M Red I immediately called back and he made me a decent deal on the Quintet Blue for $499.00. My question is did I just make a huge mistake by spending more on the cartridge than the table? And what do you think I should expect from the cartridge? Please see my signature for system details. Thanks for listening.
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Post by brubacca on Jan 30, 2015 20:19:16 GMT -5
I have asked this question multiple times on multiple forums. I have researched it to no end. The consensus that I kept on reading and the consistent advice I was gives was that it is better to have a more expensive table with a cheaper cartridge.
In the end my dealer who was getting a sale advised me to get a 2m blue instead of 2m bronze for my Debut Carbon.
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,230 
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Post by novisnick on Jan 30, 2015 20:41:45 GMT -5
I'm not too sure about your TT but my cartridge cost about 1/3 the price of my table and i find it amazing.
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Post by jjkessler on Jan 30, 2015 21:36:05 GMT -5
I have the same turntable with the Orfton black MM cartridge, speed controller, cartridge scale, emotive XPS1, and I'm happy with what I have. I bought it used for about $800 in like new condition. I'm sure the cartridge was close to the price of the turntable
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Post by adaboy on Jan 31, 2015 7:18:42 GMT -5
I have asked this question multiple times on multiple forums. I have researched it to no end. The consensus that I kept on reading and the consistent advice I was gives was that it is better to have a more expensive table with a cheaper cartridge. In the end my dealer who was getting a sale advised me to get a 2m blue instead of 2m bronze for my Debut Carbon. I too have heard this, but at the end of the day no one can explain the why's. I agree with you as it seems they want the table to be better than the cartridge but what doesn't make sense is the table isn't the extractor of detail the cartridge is. |
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Post by adaboy on Jan 31, 2015 7:29:04 GMT -5
I have the same turntable with the Orfton black MM cartridge, speed controller, cartridge scale, emotive XPS1, and I'm happy with what I have. I bought it used for about $800 in like new condition. I'm sure the cartridge was close to the price of the turntable That was one heck of a deal you found! That was better than what I wanted to do with the Bronze. I'm glad that you are happy with the sound your are getting from your rig. Question, most dealers harped on the fact that with your table not having adjustable VTA, the Black would not sound correct. Is that true? Do you see any tweaks on your table to compensate? Also after doing more research I realized that the Quintet's weight is around 9 grams versus the 2M's 7.2 grams. The counterweight that comes with the table is 55 grams and has a range up to 8 grams; therefore, I had to order a new one from Needle Dr a 65g for $20.00 plus shipping. By the end of all of these upgrades I'll have a Linn or something lol. |
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Post by brubacca on Jan 31, 2015 8:32:35 GMT -5
I have asked this question multiple times on multiple forums. I have researched it to no end. The consensus that I kept on reading and the consistent advice I was gives was that it is better to have a more expensive table with a cheaper cartridge. In the end my dealer who was getting a sale advised me to get a 2m blue instead of 2m bronze for my Debut Carbon. I too have heard this, but at the end of the day no one can explain the why's. I agree with you as it seems they want the table to be better than the cartridge but what doesn't make sense is the table isn't the extractor of detail the cartridge is. The table needs to be stable. The table needs to not transmit unwanted vibrations I to the cartridge. The table needs to turn the record at the right speed and it needs to spin the record flat. I believe the general thought is that the table itself can limit the cartridge. It is a little of the chicken and the egg. The good news is if you have a cart that is better than your table really needs than when you get that new table you will be set. It is very telling to me when I was willing to give a guy the money for a Bronze and he said unless you are looking to upgrade the table the Blue is the better bet for my needs. |
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Post by Priapulus on Jan 31, 2015 9:01:28 GMT -5
You're just dragging a needle thru a groove pressed into plastic; 100 year old, low tech, low fidelity technology. I could never hear any difference between a $100 cartridge and a more expensive one, and I'm a vinyl fanatic. I chose my vintage cartridge on the basis of it traditionally being paired with my arm and turntable. Vintage hardware for a vintage media...
I believe all good (>$80) cartridges sound about the same. Playing vinyl is a destructive process (dragging a diamond thru plastic), so choosing a diamond with good tracking symmetry and light tracking force, to minimize playing damage to your records, is a good strategy.
Sincerely
/b
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Post by adaboy on Jan 31, 2015 16:02:51 GMT -5
You're just dragging a needle thru a groove pressed into plastic; 100 year old, low tech, low fidelity technology. I could never hear any difference between a $100 cartridge and a more expensive one, and I'm a vinyl fanatic. I chose my vintage cartridge on the basis of it traditionally being paired with my arm and turntable. Vintage hardware for a vintage media... I believe all good (>$80) cartridges sound about the same. Playing vinyl is a destructive process (dragging a diamond thru plastic), so choosing a diamond with good tracking symmetry and light tracking force, to minimize playing damage to your records, is a good strategy. Sincerely /b Thanks for chiming in but.... If you can't hear differences in budget versus more refined cartridges, maybe vinyl isn't for you or you listened on less revealing systems. Also I am 100% positive that the 100 year old technology has improved significantly since the hand cranking days. I was really hoping to hear from someone that has a more expensive cartridge on there debut carbon.  ? |
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,230
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Post by novisnick on Jan 31, 2015 16:14:55 GMT -5
It's me again!! 8)
I currently own five TT and with most of them , the better table matched with a better cartridge sounds better with less distortion.
My " Percious " is a Rega P6 with a matching Exact cartridge and it's the best I've heard!! Hands down!! Utopia!!
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Post by adaboy on Jan 31, 2015 16:19:53 GMT -5
It's me again!! 8) I currently own five TT and with most of them , the better table matched with a better cartridge sounds better with less distortion. My " Percious " is a Rega P6 with a matching Exact cartridge and it's the best I've heard!! Hands down!! Utopia!! I really liked the Rega P6 TT, but at the time it was out of reach so I settled for the Debut Carbon. I've been really happy with it so far, super curious now. Five turntables? I'm intrigued... Do you mind sharing the details of the rest of your TT family? Thanks for your informed responses  |
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Post by adaboy on Jan 31, 2015 17:52:47 GMT -5
I need help determining which setting to use on my phono Stage.
Ortofon Qunitet Blue:
Internal impedance, DC resistance: 7 Ohm
Recommended load impedance: >20 Ohm
Emotiva XPS-1 MC:
1k
470
100
47
Which one should be used with this cartridge?
Thanks
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,230
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Post by novisnick on Jan 31, 2015 19:20:39 GMT -5
In all honesty, I'd start with 47 and work my way up. The best sound to you will be the right setting.
When I get time I'll look further into it, but this is a good rule of thumb, won't hurt anything, if I'm wrong someone will quickly point that out, love my friends on this forum!! 8)
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Post by trinhsman on Jan 31, 2015 19:43:51 GMT -5
Ok, so I have a debut carbon dc with a Ortofon 2m red cartridge. I have been listening to the cartridge now for a few months while not bad for a $99 one the IGD sometimes grates my ears. I love the sound though and really like analytical listening sessions. So long story short I have had my heart set on a 2M Bronze and even ordered one from a local dealer on Monday for a great price $325.00 turns out today they aren't authorized by Ortofon and could not come through. I called around and couldn't find one for less than $440.00. Finally I goy frustrated and called the needle dr. after comparing and discussing with the nice guy, I ordered the Ortofon Quintet Red for $314.00. Feeling guilty since it too uses the same stylus as the 2M Red I immediately called back and he made me a decent deal on the Quintet Blue for $499.00. My question is did I just make a huge mistake by spending more on the cartridge than the table? And what do you think I should expect from the cartridge? Please see my signature for system details. Thanks for listening. No, you have not made a mistake. I own the Pro-Ject turntable. At one time I even had the Ortofon 2M Black on it. I have since upgraded turntables, but kept my Pro-Ject. I put a 2M Blue on it and was very happy. There are some things you can do to really make this table sing. First, if you don't have it, get the speed control. Biggest improvent for the dollar you can do. Next, if you can swing it, get the acrylic platter. I also added a Herbies 2mm mat for even better sound. Finally, go to your local Car Audio store and get some Dynamat. Cut it into nice even pieces and place on the bottom of the plinth, everywhere it will fit. If you really want to bump it up further, add some quality cables. I have the Morrow PH4's and they do a nice job. I wish you all the best. |
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Post by trinhsman on Jan 31, 2015 19:49:15 GMT -5
You're just dragging a needle thru a groove pressed into plastic; 100 year old, low tech, low fidelity technology. I could never hear any difference between a $100 cartridge and a more expensive one, and I'm a vinyl fanatic. I chose my vintage cartridge on the basis of it traditionally being paired with my arm and turntable. Vintage hardware for a vintage media... I believe all good (>$80) cartridges sound about the same. Playing vinyl is a destructive process (dragging a diamond thru plastic), so choosing a diamond with good tracking symmetry and light tracking force, to minimize playing damage to your records, is a good strategy. Sincerely /b Thanks for chiming in but.... If you can't hear differences in budget versus more refined cartridges, maybe vinyl isn't for you or you listened on less revealing systems. Also I am 100% positive that the 100 year old technology has improved significantly since the hand cranking days. I was really hoping to hear from someone that has a more expensive cartridge on there debut carbon. ? I have to agree. I have heard distinct improvements as I went up in cartridge quality. I now own a Music Hall 9.1 with an Ortofon 2M Black cartridge. Not only am I amazed at the sound, but friends and family can't believe its a turntable, and not a CD. With quality recordings, cleaned well, it is dead quiet and a pure pleasure to listen to. |
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,230
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Post by novisnick on Jan 31, 2015 20:16:45 GMT -5
Thanks for chiming in but.... If you can't hear differences in budget versus more refined cartridges, maybe vinyl isn't for you or you listened on less revealing systems. Also I am 100% positive that the 100 year old technology has improved significantly since the hand cranking days. I was really hoping to hear from someone that has a more expensive cartridge on there debut carbon. ? I have to agree. I have heard distinct improvements as I went up in cartridge quality. I now own a Music Hall 9.1 with an Ortofon 2M Black cartridge. Not only am I amazed at the sound, but friends and family can't believe its a turntable, and not a CD. With quality recordings, cleaned well, it is dead quiet and a pure pleasure to listen to. Amen! Brother!! Can I have a " Hallelujah?  |
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Post by milsap195 on Jan 31, 2015 21:34:57 GMT -5
I want a 2m black so bad!
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Post by adaboy on Feb 1, 2015 0:16:45 GMT -5
Thank you Trinhsman for providing real world experiences with your table. I have the DC model which has the speed controller built in minus the ability to change speeds at the push of a button. Acrylic platter check and weighted puck check as well. From my understanding MC's would be off limits with the stock steal platter. Thanks to Novisnick and others for giving your feedback as well. All good things to know and chew on. Definitely will play around with the ohm loads to see which sounds best. Side note, I just scored a pair of Magnepan MMG's for 200 bucks today and my goodness do they sound great! My wife loves them more than I do and now wants them in the bedroom. I can't argue with that  Now I will have to get another sub.... Man sure feels good when you can get your significant other on board  |
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Post by trinhsman on Feb 1, 2015 16:34:02 GMT -5
Thank you Trinhsman for providing real world experiences with your table. I have the DC model which has the speed controller built in minus the ability to change speeds at the push of a button. Acrylic platter check and weighted puck check as well. From my understanding MC's would be off limits with the stock steal platter. Thanks to Novisnick and others for giving your feedback as well. All good things to know and chew on. Definitely will play around with the ohm loads to see which sounds best. Side note, I just scored a pair of Magnepan MMG's for 200 bucks today and my goodness do they sound great! My wife loves them more than I do and now wants them in the bedroom. I can't argue with that Now I will have to get another sub.... Man sure feels good when you can get your significant other on board My wife has been quite understanding in this hobby. Allows me to pile records up in the main living area while listening. Even let me build some sound traps that I have hung on the walls. She even will tell me to show my system off when people drop by for a visit. I am old school though, and only do 2 channel, with no computer hooked up or digital of any kind, except my ERC-3. |
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Post by deltadube on Feb 1, 2015 17:40:05 GMT -5
Ok, so I have a debut carbon dc with a Ortofon 2m red cartridge. I have been listening to the cartridge now for a few months while not bad for a $99 one the IGD sometimes grates my ears. I love the sound though and really like analytical listening sessions. So long story short I have had my heart set on a 2M Bronze and even ordered one from a local dealer on Monday for a great price $325.00 turns out today they aren't authorized by Ortofon and could not come through. I called around and couldn't find one for less than $440.00. Finally I goy frustrated and called the needle dr. after comparing and discussing with the nice guy, I ordered the Ortofon Quintet Red for $314.00. Feeling guilty since it too uses the same stylus as the 2M Red I immediately called back and he made me a decent deal on the Quintet Blue for $499.00. My question is did I just make a huge mistake by spending more on the cartridge than the table? And what do you think I should expect from the cartridge? Please see my signature for system details. Thanks for listening. novisnick got me looking at turntables the more I look the more I going to spend .. so far im looking at this good starter turn table ? thing is I don't own a record yet..  |
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?
Now I will have to get another sub.... Man sure feels good when you can get your significant other on board 
