Help me with a restaruant build

[knecht]

A friend of mine is opening a restaurant and likes my home system so much he asked me to put together a system for the restaurant.

The restaurant currently has 22 individual studio monitors spaced approximately 8 feet apart mounted around the perimeter of the dining/bar space. The ceiling appears to be about 20 feet with the speakers angled downward.

I didn’t have a ladder with me so I don’t currently have the specs of the speakers (looked like JBL monitors). I will check them out on the next visit.

Here is a list of what we are thinking…

Source
Sonos Connect
Blu-ray Player for the occasional CD
Cable Box – for sporting events

DAC
Emotiva XDA-2 Gen 2

Amplification – What option do you think would work best? He does want it to get loud when needed as this is a going to be a bar/grill themed restaurant.

Option 1 - (2) Dayton Audio MA1240a Multi-Zone 12 Channel Amplifier (40 Watts - Class A/B) – Daisy Chained to support all channels
Option 2 - (2) Dayton Audio MA1260 Multi-Zone 12 Channel Amplifier (60 Watts - Class D) – Daisy Chained to support all channels
Option 3 - (1) Emotiva XPA-200 (150 Watts Class A/B)
                    (1) 10 Zone Speaker Selector with independent volume controls - Speaker Selector
Option 4 - (3) Sherbourn - 4Z-75 4-Zone Amplifier w/ Speaker Selector (65 Watts - Class A/B) - Daisy Chained to support all channels


Thanks in advance for the input!

[Deleted]

I used to sell audio equipment for commercial applications, so maybe some input here.

First of all I would scrap the 22 monitors scattered throughout. It's just unsightly to have speakers hanging everywhere. The audio equipment should be relatively invisible or at least minimal.

Since you're dealing wih a commercial application, you really want a commercial-grade solution. So many bars, etc simply expand on a home system and it's just not going to cut it.

It's hard for me to spec out a system without knowing the dimensions of the space, but instead of placing 22 monitors throughout, mount, for example a commercial JBL, EV, etc. - maybe 12" driver with radial horn in each, 2 up front and any additional as needed for reinforcement. These cabinets are designed for long throws and larger areas. I'd also use a commercial amp, Crown, EV to drive as needed. A small mixer can be purchased for multiple sources.

For sources you might also consider a media PC, Mac. This would allow access to custom playlists, uninterrupted and commercial free. I've also setup playlists that trigger on a timer, so for example the genre changes as the day progresses. So may options here. Also access to Internet radio.

Take a trip to a dealer near you that sells PA equipment. A reputable store will be able to guide you in the right direction, probably less cost than you think. Also feel free to message me for direction.

[Deleted]

This is the direction you want to go. I used to sell a ton of Yamaha cabinets. Good sound at reasonable price.
www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/S115V

Example commercial amp for this application. One for each pair.
www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/XLS2000

Again, depending on the square footage, maybe four total. Much better than 22 and these will go loud. Plenty of bass with the 15" driver, sub optional. I've hidden subs inside of dance floors, furniture.

[brand]

Feb 8, 2015 11:05:31 GMT -5 johnnyd70 said:

.The audio equipment should be relatively invisible or at least minimal.

Probably a missunderstanding but how is this minimal?

www.gearnuts.com/images/closeup/xl/1600-S115V_detail1.jpg

[Deleted]

So you'd rather look at 22 home speakers in a space? Use the equipment that's designed for the purpose. I may have mentioned I did this for a living. Trying to prevent them from making the mistake that I see over and over. Sorry but commercial applications are not the same as home theater.

Did you actually have a suggestion for him or something to contribute?  

[jlafrenz]

Most bars/restaurants use 70V systems. You are going to want to get the specs on those speakers before you go any further with the design.

[Jim]

Feb 8, 2015 11:58:56 GMT -5 johnnyd70 said:

So you'd rather look at 22 home speakers in a space? Use the equipment that's designed for the purpose. I may have mentioned I did this for a living. Trying to prevent them from making the mistake that I see over and over. Sorry but commercial applications are not the same as home theater.

Did you actually have a suggestion for him or something to contribute?  

My question isn't about 22 speakers vs a handful / it's that most of the restaurant speakers that I've seen blend in pretty well.

Is it really that common to use a speaker that large and try to hide it? I'm used to seeing smaller speakers.

That looks better suited for a DJ than for a restaurant - but if you do this for a living - then you'd know better than I would.

[Deleted]

You don't need the 15" cabinet. They can certainly go smaller. Was just an example of the general direction. If you read the original thread he states it's a bar/restaurant and he wanted it loud. Yes a typical restaurant will use a 70v in-ceiling application, but that's not the impression or the application I got when I read it. Maybe he'll clarify. If it's a nightclub in the evening then he'll need more than what you are suggesting.

[novisnick]

Y'all have my attention! I have a similar business with the ceiling system in place, not near enough to fill the room with rocking sound. On occasion I would have live music as well as a CD, PC based source but no idea of how to fill the room with real sound. The Yamaha cabinet system looks good.

Don't want to jump this thread, just wanted to let everyone know that this will be a solution to more then one person.

Thanks so much, I'll be watching and learning. 8)

[brand]

Feb 8, 2015 11:58:56 GMT -5 johnnyd70 said:

So you'd rather look at 22 home speakers in a space? Use the equipment that's designed for the purpose. I may have mentioned I did this for a living. Trying to prevent them from making the mistake that I see over and over. Sorry but commercial applications are not the same as home theater.

Did you actually have a suggestion for him or something to contribute?  

Since you seem somewhat passive agressive let's continue in that tone:

I'm not required to contribute anything to question what you posted above. Did I write "22 home speakers are the way to go"? If yes please show me the quote. I couldn't care less what you do for a living especially after your speaker recommedation for a restaurant . Those speakers visible in a restaurant are you kidding me. I'd agree if you meant commercial grade speakers hidden away.

I also agree with this statement: "The audio equipment should be relatively invisible or at least minimal". Which is why I asked why you would suggest those speakers (even smaller ones of the same kind) without mentioning hiding them or making them barely visible.

[Deleted]

Brand sorry if I hurt your feelings. Ever been to a bar/nightclub where there's some thought to sound? If so look up and tell me what you see.

Nick - PM me and I'll be glad to help.

[Jim]

Feb 8, 2015 13:50:50 GMT -5 johnnyd70 said:

Brand sorry if I hurt your feelings. Ever been to a bar/nightclub where there's some thought to sound? If so look up and tell me what you see.

Nick - PM me and I'll be glad to help.

I still think it's funny that you wrote "The audio equipment should be relatively invisible or at least minimal." and then posted a link to a big 15" cab.

I'm guessing that you meant minimal in terms of speaker count - but I don't think that came across. And it's the opposite of invisible.

I think your word choice was just confusing - because I had the exact same thought as brand.

[Deleted]

That's fine. I still think mounting a 12" cab is less unsightly that seeing 22 speakers placed everywhere.Parcing words does nothing to benefit the OP. It depends on the application. The OP stated this was a bar & grill. To me that says casual with some form of night Iife, not some restaurant where music is just background. Read the OP's thread. If you want more inconspicuous, go with a commercial Bose array. Those are not my thing however. But this, like most threads, tend to digress and do little or nothing to contribute to the poster's inquiry. So unless someone else can move this forward, I'll just let the OP clarify his needs, as of course I've never stepped foot in the place, in which I'm sure he'll PM me in that case.

[brand]

Feb 8, 2015 13:50:50 GMT -5 johnnyd70 said:

Brand sorry if I hurt your feelings. Ever been to a bar/nightclub where there's some thought to sound? If so look up and tell me what you see.

Nick - PM me and I'll be glad to help.

Moments ago you repeated/implied for the second or even third time in this thread that you used to sell (commercial) audio. I find this harder to believe with every post. How are my feelings hurt? Again I'd like a quote please. I'm under the impression that I rustled your jimmies.

Also reading comprehension is a real thing. This is what OP posted: "dining/bar space". Yet you tell me to look up nightclub. Be so kind and press CTRL F in this thread and look for the word "nightclub". You'll find that the only person that used the word "nightclub" in this thread is you. Let's be honest your main reason for posting was not to give OP advice but to mention that you're an ex audio salesman.

Here's my new recommendation, an F1 dance stack:


EDIT: BTW I was really just curious when I first posted because it didn't make any sense to me like Jim mentioned. Nothing else to it.

[garbulky]

Allright allright....jeez! Obviously the question is...exactly what kind of place/purpose does the person want. And are the 22 speakers well concealed in-ceiling systems or actually placed. What does he want?

[knecht]

Thanks for the responses. Replacing the speakers won't be an option due to cost constraints. The speakers actually blend in well as the ceiling and speakers are both black. I need to go there this week with a ladder so I can get the specs off the speakers; its very possible they are 70V. Once that's detrmined we can decide on the best amplification method. The primary function of the system will be background music in the dining area and bar; no nightclub. I'll take some pics if I get a chance.

[jlafrenz]

When you go look at the speakers you need to see if they are all on one leg or if they are on multiple runs. If they are on multiple runs, you will want to track down how many speakers are on each leg. I assume that all the wires come back to one central location.

[knecht]

Each speaker is on its own run back to a wiring closet and are actually labeled

[jlafrenz]

Feb 9, 2015 13:16:49 GMT -5 knecht said:

Each speaker is on its own run back to a wiring closet and are actually labeled

Labeling is always helpful. What are the specs on the speakers? Depending on what they are, you might be able to find a larger multi-channel amp that will work in this situation.