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Post by brutiarti on Feb 11, 2015 18:12:33 GMT -5
A short introduction first: After upgrading several things in my system [AMP: Went from Parasound A23 to the XPA-2 (lasted 1 week) to the XPR-2(a keeper) SPEAKERS: From Dali Ikon1 to Dali Helicon 300 and kept my pre (Parasound P3) I knew that i was all set regarding equipment and it was time for room treatment to really see improvements. I got some stuff from GIK acoustics and that made a huge difference always in the better side. Now regarding the ERC-3: I was 95% happy with my ERC-2, the only thing that annoy me was the buttons in the front faceplate (kind of hit or miss when you press them) and the slot loading mechanism. So i thought lets trade it for the ERC-3 hopping that the buttons were better and of course the tray load is awesome. Well, i got the ERC-3 on Monday and to tell the truth i wasn't excited at all because i though that i wasn't gonna get any improvement in sound only cosmetic. But boy what a punch in the gut. I hooked it up running balanced cables to the P3 and the sounds was LOUD!! TOO LOUD! I checked the noise from the spinning system and i didn't think it was loud at all, i couldn't hear it from 2 feet away. So that wasn't a problem. But the music sounded too loud and compressed. The highs were accentuated and i could perceive more detail but the rest fall flat, suddenly my system wasn't the same but not for the best. So i decide to do an A/B comparison with my ERC-2. I connected both unbalanced so there is no difference and i used a cd that i have two copies and use only one remote so i can control both units at the same time. And yes the ERC-3 was way more loud than the ERC-2 almost 6db more. It reminded me an original cd release (ERC-2) vs a remastered version (see loudness war)ERC-3. I'm gonna call emotiva to find out if the ERC-3 is louder indeed (maybe the new batch is like that or maybe there is something wrong?  , anyways i'm gonna keep it for a week and see, so far is going back to TN. ERC-3 owners are welcome to share info, maybe I'm missing something.... |
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Post by teaman on Feb 11, 2015 18:26:44 GMT -5
Sounds odd. I have both and I do not see a huge difference in the two as far as loudness. I think the on board DAC is improved in the ERC-3. I don't have any idea on the difference in your two players. I own an ERC-1, ERC-2 and ERC-3 and the differences between them are subtle improvements from one model to the next. Sounds like something internally may be malfunctioning.
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Post by Gary Cook on Feb 11, 2015 18:34:07 GMT -5
Have you tried swapping the inputs and the cables?
From memory the P3 has adj input volumes so they may not be equal.
Cheers
Gary
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Post by garbulky on Feb 11, 2015 18:38:31 GMT -5
Gary Cook sounds like good advice. Also I noticed that when I upgraded electronics - I needed to adjust my speaker positioning. So go ahead and try that. 
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Post by brutiarti on Feb 11, 2015 18:46:56 GMT -5
Yep, i swapped cables, used the same as the ERC-2 and i get the same results. Actually i had to remove the spikes on the speaker stands to lower the tweeter level so i don't get that harshness of the highs (And i love bright sound) but is too much. Like teaman said, it should be subtle differences between the units so i would say that something is wrong with my unit. I will post what emotiva says and maybe send it back for another unit, seriously i don't wanna give up on the tray loader  |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2015 18:50:44 GMT -5
When I first purchased the ERC-3 I was A & B testing against the Sherbourn CD-1 which was a rebadged ERC-2. I use unbalanced RCA cables. I did not notice any difference in the volume of the sound at the same knob setting on the preamp. I love the slot mechanism of the CD-1 compared to the tray loader, but the ERC-3 sounds a little bit better.
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Post by Gary Cook on Feb 11, 2015 19:02:17 GMT -5
Over the year (decades) I have had a lot of CD players, lots of different brands, from CD only, DVD/CD, BD/CD and now I'm back to CD only. I've back to backed the ERC-3 with an Oppo 103, a 105, a Panasonic BD player, two different Sony BD players, a Toshiba DVD player and a Denon CD player. To my ears, with my speakers, in my room there's not a major difference between them, sure they do sound different but it's hardly night and day. Mostly I put it down to the DAC implementation and out of all of them I prefer the ERC-3, it has a very natural / uncoloured sound to me.
My suggestion is to keep listening to it, clarity shock is not uncommon and does take time to become accustomed to. I'm a firm believer in allowing time for burn in, that's ear burn in of course.
Cheers
Gary
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Post by brutiarti on Feb 11, 2015 19:04:21 GMT -5
Keeping everything the same, just switching units, listening tha same song in the same cd at 38 vol in the p3 the max reading on the erc-2 is 88.6 and with the erc-3 i got 94.2 db in the loudest parts of the song, we'll see what emo says
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Post by novisnick on Feb 11, 2015 19:09:34 GMT -5
When I first purchased the ERC-3 I was A & B testing against the Sherbourn CD-1 which was a rebadged ERC-2. I use unbalanced RCA cables. I did not notice any difference in the volume of the sound at the same knob setting on the preamp. I love the slot mechanism of the CD-1 compared to the tray loader, but the ERC-3 sounds a little bit better. I don't think your crazy my friend. I've never owned or heard the ERC-3 BUT!!!! I do own a CD-1 and it sounds very close and very nice. Then I ran the CD-1 through the DC-1 and it did sound just a little better, not enough to warrant an upgrade to the ERC-3 IMHO. Basically, this setup ( CD-1 & DC-1 ) is an ERC-3! IMHO they are equally great and have the same sound.  OH! And to answer the question,,,,,,,YES! We're all crazy!!
Must be to have this obsession!!!!  |
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Post by stlaudiofan1 on Feb 12, 2015 8:54:57 GMT -5
Over the year (decades) I have had a lot of CD players, lots of different brands, from CD only, DVD/CD, BD/CD and now I'm back to CD only. I've back to backed the ERC-3 with an Oppo 103, a 105, a Panasonic BD player, two different Sony BD players, a Toshiba DVD player and a Denon CD player. To my ears, with my speakers, in my room there's not a major difference between them, sure they do sound different but it's hardly night and day. Mostly I put it down to the DAC implementation and out of all of them I prefer the ERC-3, it has a very natural / uncoloured sound to me. My suggestion is to keep listening to it, clarity shock is not uncommon and does take time to become accustomed to. I'm a firm believer in allowing time for burn in, that's ear burn in of course. Cheers Gary That is my findings as well. I have had CD players from Denon, Ayon, Sony, Vincent and others. Also, I used to have a MAC Mini server that I recently dismantled and went to the ERC-3. For that, I have tried 3 different HRT Music Streamers, Rega DAC, Benchmark DAC-1, Benchmark DAC-2 D, Schiit Bitfrost UBER, Halide DAC, 2 different Chinese DACs, various USB to SPDIF converters. My favorites so far are the Rega DAC and the ERC-3. I prefer vinyl because I think it best recreates what I hear live. I personally like the ERC-3 because it sounds closer to my vinyl rig. Having said that, I had a Rogue Audio Cronos Magnum tubed integrated amp for a long time, and I think the ERC-3 would have been a bit too polite for that. The Cronos added warmth and the sound, and I needed a more detailed source. I have changed my approach to having the preamp and amp be as neutral as possible and change the source to something I prefer. I have the ERC-3 mated with the XSP-1, 4 XPA-1L biamping my Magnepans all wired with Mogami Studio Gold XLR cables. There is no right or wrong. It comes down to preference and system synergy. |
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Post by Porscheguy on Feb 12, 2015 9:49:36 GMT -5
I believe the ERC-3 spins at twice the speed of the ERC-2. Hence the noise..
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Feb 12, 2015 10:04:41 GMT -5
The digital data coming off a CD is always the same... because no reputable CD player is going to change it along the way. ALL "serious" CD players are bit-perfect as concerns their digital outputs. The digital output of a CD player, like any digital signal, will contain some small amount of jitter and, if your DAC is especially sensitive to jitter, this could theoretically cause different "transports" to sound different with that DAC (although I doubt you'd notice it). However, that effect is very subtle, and DOES NOT affect the level at all. Of course, since the analog outputs of any CD player go through its DAC, they can be at whatever level the designer of that particular player chose to use, and so may be different. Keeping everything the same, just switching units, listening tha same song in the same cd at 38 vol in the p3 the max reading on the erc-2 is 88.6 and with the erc-3 i got 94.2 db in the loudest parts of the song, we'll see what emo says |
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Feb 12, 2015 10:15:41 GMT -5
A turntable spins the record at a constant speed, and the music plays "in real time". In direct contrast, a CD player reads the data off the disc in little "bites" - which are then used to fill a buffer. (When the buffer gets low, it "asks" for more data, and the drive reads another chunk into the buffer.) The data is then read from this buffer using a separate and very precise clock. Different drives may read the data in different sized bites, and, when they do read data, they may spin the disc itself at different speeds. Since the data is "filtered" through a buffer, and is always read from that buffer using an independent clock, none of this affects the sound quality in any way. (Some drives try to always spin the disc at the same rate, while others vary the rate depending on whether you're closer to the outside or the center. Either way the drive alternates between spinning rapidly and not spinning at all. The reality is that today most drives are designed to read the data as quickly as possible without errors, which is always the goal in computer applications, and are not designed specifically for quiet operation.) The ERC-3 uses a different transport than the ERC-2 (the one we used in the ERC-2 is no longer available), and so it sounds different. I believe the ERC-3 spins at twice the speed of the ERC-2. Hence the noise.. |
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Post by brutiarti on Feb 12, 2015 10:40:10 GMT -5
Hi Keith, so do you think that i have a bad unit?? Anyway, i'm returning the unit to Emo with a note that please check the issue that i found and let me know if they find something wrong so i can give it another try. The digital data coming off a CD is always the same... because no reputable CD player is going to change it along the way. ALL "serious" CD players are bit-perfect as concerns their digital outputs. The digital output of a CD player, like any digital signal, will contain some small amount of jitter and, if your DAC is especially sensitive to jitter, this could theoretically cause different "transports" to sound different with that DAC (although I doubt you'd notice it). However, that effect is very subtle, and DOES NOT affect the level at all. Of course, since the analog outputs of any CD player go through its DAC, they can be at whatever level the designer of that particular player chose to use, and so may be different. Keeping everything the same, just switching units, listening tha same song in the same cd at 38 vol in the p3 the max reading on the erc-2 is 88.6 and with the erc-3 i got 94.2 db in the loudest parts of the song, we'll see what emo says |
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Post by Porscheguy on Feb 12, 2015 10:58:27 GMT -5
The fact remains that the ERC-3 spins twice as fast as the ERC-2 and that is directly attributable to the noise.
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Post by brutiarti on Feb 12, 2015 11:00:19 GMT -5
I don't find noise coming from the spinning mechanism, only maybe a 1 feet but more than 2 feet i'm good The fact remains that the ERC-3 spins twice as fast as the ERC-2 and that is directly attributable to the noise. |
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Post by Porscheguy on Feb 12, 2015 11:01:19 GMT -5
I don't find noise coming from the spinning mechanism, only maybe a 1 feet but more than 2 feet i'm good The fact remains that the ERC-3 spins twice as fast as the ERC-2 and that is directly attributable to the noise. Thats all tat matters then.. |
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Post by brutiarti on Feb 12, 2015 11:04:23 GMT -5
My problem is actually with the sound of this particular unit. We'll see if emo run some tests to check for anomalies, if not i will survive with my ERC-2 I don't find noise coming from the spinning mechanism, only maybe a 1 feet but more than 2 feet i'm good Thats all tat matters then.. |
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Post by jmilton on Feb 12, 2015 11:29:41 GMT -5
The fact remains that the ERC-3 spins twice as fast as the ERC-2 and that is directly attributable to the noise. I thought CDs are read at CLV, unless they are being transferred to an HD and then played back...  |
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Post by Porscheguy on Feb 12, 2015 11:37:36 GMT -5
The fact remains that the ERC-3 spins twice as fast as the ERC-2 and that is directly attributable to the noise. I thought CDs are read at CLV, unless they are being transferred to an HD and then played back... This player samples at twice the speed of the ERC-2 which is why it spins so fast.. |
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, anyways i'm gonna keep it for a week and see, so far is going back to TN. 
