Xpa-3 vs Xpa 1L

[Tungx2]

Hello folks,

I am losing sleep over audio equipment.

I read some where about the Sennheiser HD 800 is the "end all" solution to headphone upgrade on the market for now.

I'm still deciding on that, but anyways.

This is my real question.

I currently run Polk Rti setup. 5.2.2. Technically.

I am running xpa-1 gen 2 with Rti a9s for the fronts

Xpa-3 for center and surrounds.

Receiver for the front presence speakers.

Now, I'm thinking of selling my Xpa-3 gen 2 and upgrade to 3 or 5 blocks of XPA-1L Gen 2. To me, this seems to be the "end all" solution of amps for me at the moment. I know there could be better, but have all xpa monoblocks is all I ever need for decades to come!!! (yeah right... lol)

To be fully monoblock! To me, emotiva amps has been reliable and I have faith in them that the amps will hold strong for many years to come.

For music, I'm trying to stick with 2 channel for now. For home theatre, I don't even know if it will make a difference between xpa-3 and xpa-1L

Also, all this is under the assumption that the Xpa-1 and Xpa-1Ls will play nicely together and match perfectly.

Oh another thing, I am hoping to marry my gf in a year or two. So I'm hoping to get most of the audio upgrades done, so wife factor will not be an issue later in life. (if it matters in decision making)

Help me sleep~~

[jhob]

I am in the same position, with the girlfriend, and trying to get all of the audio upgrades done before I have to start consulting how to spend money. I'm trying to decide if I want to go with XPA-3, for the front, and centers, and then later get an XPA-2 for the fronts, and move the XPA-3 to the center and surrounds, or if I should get and XPA-5 now, and then in the future(hopefully), upgrade to a 7.1 with an XPA-2 for the fronts. Good luck!!

[Tungx2]

I was in your boat before. But you gotta ask yourself, do you want to taste the sound of monoblocks ever?


Let's consider the decisions I made that works.

Xpa-1 gen 2. No matter what u do, you will never get rid of them.

Now for the xpa 3, it's an iffy issue. Because of the center channel amplification (that sticks out like a sore thumb), it creates an odd number in the speaker setup. If it wasn't for the center channel, you can go with xpa-2s all day long. Xpa-3 sounds great, but if you want monoblocks down the road, you might want to monoblock your center channel eventually. Then dang it! What is the extra channel on xpa-3 going to go? So if you are ok without monoblocks, xpa-3 or xpa-5 are great value.

The route I took only 13 months ago was Xpa-1 (2) and Xpa-3. i thought it was a smart move. I'm not so sure anymore lol.

Sorry I feel like i'm going in circles. Xpa-3 can power your surrounds or your future rears/presence if u choose to add another xpa-2 later.

oh wait! i got an idea, you can power your sub with the xpa-3? And then use the other two for less serious channels (rears/presence/surround).

What do you think?

my SVS is a powered sub, I don't think it needs amplification... right?? or should I?? lol

[Gary Cook]

Centre channel mythology, to date over the last 12 years or so I have had;
1. An AVR powering the C, SL and SR with a pure Class A stereo amp powering the FL and FR plus a DIY sub woofer amp. AVR as a preamp/processor.

2. An XPA-3 powering the C, SL and SR with an XPA-2 powering the FL and FR plus the same DIY sub woofer amp. Started of with an AVR as the pre amp/processor then moved to a UMC-1.

3. An XPA-5 powering the C, SL, SR, FL and FR plus the same DIY sub woofer amp. With a UMC-200 as pre amp/processor.

4. An XPA-5 powering the C, SL, SR, FL and FR plus an XPA-100 as a sub woofer amp. With a UMC-200 as pre amp/processor.

5. An XPA-5 powering the C, SL, SR, FL and FR plus an XPA-1L as a sub woofer amp.With a UMC-200 as pre amp/processor.

6. I have tried the XPA-100 and the XPA-1L on the centre channel.

Very soon I will have;
7. An XPA-5 powering the C, SL and SR with a pair of XPA-1L's powering the FL and FR plus the XPA-100 as the sub woofer amp. Still with a UMC-200 as pre amp/processor.


What have I noticed for 5.1 movies? Well, I noted an improvement in the centre channels quality and quantity as soon as I went to the XPA-3 from the AVR, one of those rare night and day revelations. The next was the change in pre amp/processor from the AVR to the UMC's, another night and day experience. Changing from the XPA-3 to the XPA-5, can't say as I noticed any difference at all. The change in sub woofer amps (DIY to XPA-100) was noticeable but subtle.

What have I noticed for 2.1 music that I didn't notice so much for movies? Keeping in mind that for 2.1 music I use a USP-1 as a pre amp. The change in sub woofer amps (DIY to XPA-100) was another of those "OMG why didn't I do this years ago" moments. Can't say as I noticed much change from the XPA-2 to the XPA-5, but the XPA-1L I had on test made a subtle but noticeable improvement, especially in Class A.

In summary, once I had stepped up to a quality power amp (XPA-3, XPA-5, XPA-100, XPA-1L) for the centre channel I really haven't noticed any difference for 5.1 movies. So I'm sorry but I'm not a subscriber to the "centre must have a monoblock" club. I've not heard enough difference, even with 3 different speaker sets, to justify the cost.

Cheers
Gary

[Tungx2]

Thanks for the response. You had me going for awhile until I got to the last part. It wasn't the answer I was hoping for but it makes sense.
Since the Center is mostly for mids and highs, bass isn't there usually anyways, this doesn't need a powerful amp to drive them

Thanks for saving me money for powering the Center.

Now, gary did sparked another interest however...

Would anyone think my SVS PB 12+ /2 requires external amp???

At its peak, it was the top model. I contacted SVS numerous times about the difference between mine And the ultra.they confirmed that the difference is marginally and I should keep my subwoofer. I was hoping to upgrade to cylinders too.

But does it even make sense to amp a powered sub? The sub already has its own amp. All its needs is the signal right?dont get me wrong, I would love to drive my subwoofer harder and cleaner. But would it make a difference ?

[knucklehead]

SVS put the right amp in your subwoofer. If they thought for one instance that it was underpowered it would have come with a larger amp.

[garbulky]

Hey there. Can I be honest? It seems to me that you are running off on some well not very desirable paths. That's okay, that's why this hobby is fun! You're trying to improve the sound but honestly are not sure how (though you're obviously not clueless).
So let's start with the basics. Could you post a photo of your room preferrably from your listening position? Usually that reveals some obvious anomalies that can go a looooong way to make you feel like you just bought a new upgrade.

Here are my suggestions. Your amps are honestly really good. Your SVS is also good. You appear to be chasing trifling improvements rather than concentrating on large tangible improvements.
I would look at room treatments. Even one (!) behind the couch tends to make a nice large difference. And also look at speaker positioning (by obsessive amounts paid to things like toe in, optimal distance from rear walls).
Check these guys out. Worth their weight in gold. Comes in different colors and even as art work.
www.atsacoustics.com/item--ATS-Acoustic-Panel-24-x-48-x-2--1001.html

These are the boring stuff but they are the important ones.

Next....look at your speakers. If you are feeling something is somewhat lacking, other than the room, that's the next obvious culprit. Now lots of people love the rti series, but maybe you need to look at something with more resolving capabilities. Most people are reluctant to change their speakers and prefer to buy electronics as they've tended to have gotten to love the sound. That's understandable. But the truth is changing the speakers is where it's usually at. Audition some stuff. There are plenty of great speakers out there. Lately, I've been hearing some amazing things about tekton design.

Are you a music guy or mainly a movie guy? Music is where things really tend to get critical.
Another big culprit maybe your subwoofer. Here's how.

You get your sub and you may have done speaker positioning with the sub engaged. This masks the really optimal settings for your speaker harder to find as the sub takes in for the punch, the enveloping feel of the sound etc.
After dialing in your speakers dial in your sub and its placement. (remember to do all positioning and dialing in should be done with room correction OFF.) Put the sub on your listening area then play a bass sweep and crawl around the room. The place where the bass sweep sounds most even is where the sub is most optimal.
Bass traps can help.

If things still don't feel like the sub has a really great enveloping "grip" on the room....hey get a second sub! It can even out the nulls.

For music: There's not a easy way around this or a right answer. You want to look long and hard for a 2 channel pre-amp and a 2 channel DAC. I reccomend an XSP-1 for two channel. It will keep your 2 channel separate from the Marantz. You could check out a schiit gungnir dac for 2 channel. I've heard some REALLY nice sabre dac sounds so check out audio gd's sabre line and don't be worried about their dodgy looking site. They are reputable.

As for HD800. Save that money, put it towards speakers. But if you are serious about HD800, it goes like this. The HD800's are one of the best headphones out there. Not that there aren't better but it's definitely up there. They are also 300 ohm impedance beasts. They need a specific type of (beefy) headphone amp that delivers a certain type of power to sound their best. A regular source will drive it, but it won't sound as good as they should.
Have you tried out really good headphones before? Because if you haven't, temper your expectations. I have the sennheiser HD600. I love it. BUT....my axiom speakers sound better. There is a certain natural ness namely in soundstage that is hard to get with headphones. Also bass impact etc tends to be not quite there.
But still from what I hear, the HD800's are a fantastic unit and I would love to have em.
I hope this has given you some ideas that may work for you. Remember about posting a pic of your room.