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Post by neo on Apr 14, 2015 0:03:23 GMT -5
Hello folks,
This is my first post here. I just recently started this hobby and started to build my system. After a couple days of research and thinking on what I'm listening to, I feel Emotiva might be a good fit, though I haven't had a taste about what a emotiva sounds like. I will figure it out soon in the Chicago exhibition next weekend.
Since most of my music are on digital files, I will need a DAC. I have read a couple of reviews about XDA2 gen 2. It has most of the functions I need. However, there is only one review in which XDA is connected to a AMP directly. Many other reviews add a preamp after XDA. So I'm wondering if XDA is good enough so that we can skip a preamp? Thanks in advance!
Neo
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Post by knucklehead on Apr 14, 2015 0:20:01 GMT -5
It'll work fine as a preamp if you don't have any analog sources.
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Post by teaman on Apr 14, 2015 1:11:43 GMT -5
Like knucklehead says, if you only run digital sources this XDA-2 works great as a preamp. I use them as preamps in all five of my systems!
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Post by knucklehead on Apr 14, 2015 1:26:36 GMT -5
Like knucklehead says, if you only run digital sources this XDA-2 works great as a preamp. I use them as preamps in all five of my systems! FIVE systems? You're a sick man!  |
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Post by garbulky on Apr 14, 2015 1:52:58 GMT -5
Okay... well here's my opinion and I want to be clear on this. It is my SUBJECTIVE opinion and though there are a few people that share my views, it is not necessarily the majority view by any means. (Did I mention this is subjective?  ) More caveats: if your setup is in general not very resolving or you yourself just want "good enough", this will not matter much. First what amp and speakers are you running? So.... here goes.... The XDA-2 when connected to power amps (and in my case large speakers) does not do terribly well as a pre-amp. It's dynamics sound strained and the volume doesn't change much when there is dynamics. This observation is true when compared to a dedicated standalone pre-amp like the XSP-1 or the USP-1. So there you go. Also....the DC-1 is a better DAC. IMO, it offers good value for the money. The XDA-2 offers what you paid for it. That in itself is not a bad thing, but it doesn't really stand out if that makes sense. Its real stregnth is all its features (many inputs, lovely chassis, headphone amp, fantastic looking remote) for the price. If you can't afford a pre-amp, I would by all means go for a DC-1 - which does have a decent pre-amp (for a dac to amp unit). Or even better! Wait just a bit, Emotiva is close to announcing a new dac that does 32 bit 384 khz! See what's in store!  |
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 14, 2015 6:07:16 GMT -5
The majority of the garbulky opinion expressed above is based on audition (in both my home and his) of DACs alone driving power amps and the same DACs with a preamp between them & the power amps. We've done this over time with a fairly wide variety of DACs, preamps, and power amps. The results aren't totally consistent. Some DACs do a better job of driving the power amps directly than do others. Some DACs that didn't do as well driving the power amps directly include the Emotiva XDA-1, Emotiva XDA-2, the Emotiva Stealth DC-1, the Audioquest Dragonfly (versions one or two), a Jolida tube DAC, the built-in DACs of the Oppo BDP-105, and others. Don't interpret this too say that the DACs didn't sound good - they sounded extraordinary! But the last bit of dynamics was lacking, and didn't come back until we had a preamp in the middle. Why? I have only speculation. Perhaps the analog driver stages on the DACs aren't as robust as those in the preamps? Perhaps the impedance of the power amps is sufficiently different than that of the preamp inputs that the DACs are more appropriately loaded? Perhaps the DACs have inferior volume attenuation when compared to the preamps? For whatever reason, the preamps seem to have a small edge in SQ over the DACs alone. This isn't a consistent difference, nor is it a large one. Most would be perfectly happy with the DAC driving their power amp directly, but in A/B tests (admittedly without level matching), we've generally liked the sound more with the preamp in the system. This has been true with most preamps (but not all). I've had the Emotiva XSP-1 - gen. 1, the XSP-1 - gen. 2, the USP-1, the Crown IC-150A, the Rogue Audio tube preamp (don't remember the model), the Audio Research LS-7 tube preamp, the McIntosh C-41, and several other solid state preamps. In any case, since Emotiva offers a 30-day trial, it makes sense (if you can afford it), to at least try a preamp. If it isn't worth the money to you, then just return it. But if you find that it makes the level of improvement that I've found, you'll probably want to keep it. Happy Shopping! Boom |
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Post by neo on Apr 14, 2015 13:51:02 GMT -5
Thanks a lot for the quick replies! Right now I only have a pair of Monitor Audio Gold Reference 10 bookshelf speakers in my system. Before I continue with specific questions, I have an "irrelevant" question. Due to my budget constraints, I have being looking for used equipment. As Emotiva is coming to Chicago for the axpona (http://www.axpona.com). I'm wondering if they will have promotions as they did in the road trips. If they have a good price at axpona, I would prefer to get a set of brand new equipments. Regarding DC-1, I read a couple of reviews. many of the owners still add a preamp after it. like in this one emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/33647/dc1-xda-2 In my search in the past week, I found a well rated preamp, linn wakonda, a british product. Can I mixed the products with different styles together or should a keep a single brand ? by the way, the used linn wakonda costs $400, not cheap. If I do purchase DC-1, what emotiva amp would be a good match for my 8 ohm 100 w speakers? Thanks! |
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Post by neo on Apr 14, 2015 13:55:39 GMT -5
The majority of the garbulky opinion expressed above is based on audition (in both my home and his) of DACs alone driving power amps and the same DACs with a preamp between them & the power amps. We've done this over time with a fairly wide variety of DACs, preamps, and power amps. The results aren't totally consistent. Some DACs do a better job of driving the power amps directly than do others. Some DACs that didn't do as well driving the power amps directly include the Emotiva XDA-1, Emotiva XDA-2, the Emotiva Stealth DC-1, the Audioquest Dragonfly (versions one or two), a Jolida tube DAC, the built-in DACs of the Oppo BDP-105, and others. Don't interpret this too say that the DACs didn't sound good - they sounded extraordinary! But the last bit of dynamics was lacking, and didn't come back until we had a preamp in the middle. Why? I have only speculation. Perhaps the analog driver stages on the DACs aren't as robust as those in the preamps? Perhaps the impedance of the power amps is sufficiently different than that of the preamp inputs that the DACs are more appropriately loaded? Perhaps the DACs have inferior volume attenuation when compared to the preamps? For whatever reason, the preamps seem to have a small edge in SQ over the DACs alone. This isn't a consistent difference, nor is it a large one. Most would be perfectly happy with the DAC driving their power amp directly, but in A/B tests (admittedly without level matching), we've generally liked the sound more with the preamp in the system. This has been true with most preamps (but not all). I've had the Emotiva XSP-1 - gen. 1, the XSP-1 - gen. 2, the USP-1, the Crown IC-150A, the Rogue Audio tube preamp (don't remember the model), the Audio Research LS-7 tube preamp, the McIntosh C-41, and several other solid state preamps. In any case, since Emotiva offers a 30-day trial, it makes sense (if you can afford it), to at least try a preamp. If it isn't worth the money to you, then just return it. But if you find that it makes the level of improvement that I've found, you'll probably want to keep it. Happy Shopping! Boom Hi Boom, you seem to have experience with various HiFi products. Are you settled down on emotiva system? if you are, what have impressed you by your emotiva products? And how do you compare emotiva style with some of the popular european brands? Thanks! The 30-day trial works if you already have a system to compare. But I'm building my system from scratch. |
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Post by neo on Apr 14, 2015 13:58:07 GMT -5
Okay... well here's my opinion and I want to be clear on this. It is my SUBJECTIVE opinion and though there are a few people that share my views, it is not necessarily the majority view by any means. (Did I mention this is subjective? ) More caveats: if your setup is in general not very resolving or you yourself just want "good enough", this will not matter much. First what amp and speakers are you running? So.... here goes.... The XDA-2 when connected to power amps (and in my case large speakers) does not do terribly well as a pre-amp. It's dynamics sound strained and the volume doesn't change much when there is dynamics. This observation is true when compared to a dedicated standalone pre-amp like the XSP-1 or the USP-1. So there you go. Also....the DC-1 is a better DAC. IMO, it offers good value for the money. The XDA-2 offers what you paid for it. That in itself is not a bad thing, but it doesn't really stand out if that makes sense. Its real stregnth is all its features (many inputs, lovely chassis, headphone amp, fantastic looking remote) for the price. If you can't afford a pre-amp, I would by all means go for a DC-1 - which does have a decent pre-amp (for a dac to amp unit). Or even better! Wait just a bit, Emotiva is close to announcing a new dac that does 32 bit 384 khz! See what's in store! Thanks garbulky! Are you using a preamp after DC-1? I think 24/192khz is sufficient for almost all high resolution digital music. Does 32/384khz really matter? |
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Post by novisnick on Apr 14, 2015 14:02:59 GMT -5
Welcome neo, so very happy you've found us!! Building from scratch,,,,,,,well!!,,,,,,,,,build it with Emotiva, you'll end up with a very silly looking smile on your face and a lot more money in your pocket!! Ah!,,,,almost forgot to serve you your first glass of cool aid!  |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Apr 14, 2015 14:20:50 GMT -5
I find either the XDA-2 or DC-1 make excellent preamps without anything else in the chain.
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Post by garbulky on Apr 14, 2015 14:49:35 GMT -5
Okay... well here's my opinion and I want to be clear on this. It is my SUBJECTIVE opinion and though there are a few people that share my views, it is not necessarily the majority view by any means. (Did I mention this is subjective? ) More caveats: if your setup is in general not very resolving or you yourself just want "good enough", this will not matter much. First what amp and speakers are you running? So.... here goes.... The XDA-2 when connected to power amps (and in my case large speakers) does not do terribly well as a pre-amp. It's dynamics sound strained and the volume doesn't change much when there is dynamics. This observation is true when compared to a dedicated standalone pre-amp like the XSP-1 or the USP-1. So there you go. Also....the DC-1 is a better DAC. IMO, it offers good value for the money. The XDA-2 offers what you paid for it. That in itself is not a bad thing, but it doesn't really stand out if that makes sense. Its real stregnth is all its features (many inputs, lovely chassis, headphone amp, fantastic looking remote) for the price. If you can't afford a pre-amp, I would by all means go for a DC-1 - which does have a decent pre-amp (for a dac to amp unit). Or even better! Wait just a bit, Emotiva is close to announcing a new dac that does 32 bit 384 khz! See what's in store! Thanks garbulky! Are you using a preamp after DC-1? I think 24/192khz is sufficient for almost all high resolution digital music. Does 32/384khz really matter? Hi neo I just realized you are brand new to this? Welcome! Emotiva was my first audiophile brand I tried and boy oh boy was I glad I did. These guys are the real deal and then some especially with their amps and pre-amps. This'll be easy for you. Nearly any Emotiva product you buy will for SURE be worth its price. The vast majority will be worth much more than you paid for it. Also if you are new to high fidelity stuff your mind will be absoltuely blown at how much better it is than say the stuff you can get at deparmtent stores. Yes you can absolutely mix and match equipment. No problem. Okay the DC-1's pre-amp direct to amp is pretty decent. For instance it appears to have a bit more clarity than using a USP-1. It has most of the dynamics of the USP-1 and the XSP-1. The XSP-1 is a superior pre-amp. But I was reasonably impressed at how well the DC-1 did as a pre-amp....not perfect but serviceable. So for instance you can try your linn and see if it makes a difference. Currently I am running a DC-1 direct to my amps and liking the sound! Also the DC-1 headphone amp is really quite good (for an all in one unit) and drives my sennheiser HD600 headphones quite nicely. For instance, it is better than the amp on the XSP-1. No 32/384 khz doesn't really matter. There's almost no music out there that exists that is 32/384 khz. Most of the music out there is 16/44 khz. I'm just saying that their new dac designs might be even nicer who knows! Keep in mind though with emotiva, they tend to announce a product and then wait a loooong time to deliver it. So there's no guessing their timetable. And thankfully they have stopped announcing timetables for the most part. I think you should try out the DC-1 and then see what you think if you are satisfied. As for amps. Good news - you can use ANY emo amp. Dependso n how much you want to spend. The sweet spot is an XPA-200. The best would be an XPA-2. The nice budget value would be a UPA-200 or a mini-x. All of them will provide really nice volume. The mini-x will surprise you. Now it obviously has a bit les power but if you are in a small living room, you will likely be quite satisfied. It is not a wimpy reciever or anything like that. Let me give you a few setups that you can look for Absolute budget (computer usb only) Behringer UCA 202 ($30) Audioquest dragonfly 1.2 (wow! Really sweet sound) ($130-ish) to mini-x Schiit audio modi Amp Mini-x Medium budget (amp XPA-200 OR mini-x) DC-1 Large budget DC-1 to XSP-1 Amp XPA-2 Really large budget Oppo 105 to XSP-1 ( OR an XMC-1) Amp XPA-1 L's or XPA-1 gen 2 monoblocks Wires: get everything from monoprice (choose premium if given the choice, the cost is negligible). Also there is another REALLY cost effective path which imo is just as good as any of the "medium and large budget" paths Go with any of the airmotivs or stealth models. They are all woth the price. Connect it to the DC-1 and be completely blown away with how much you saved and what a GREAT sounding setup you have. (No spending on amps!) These speakers can REALLY perform. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 14, 2015 14:59:14 GMT -5
Hi Boom, you seem to have experience with various HiFi products. Are you settled down on emotiva system? if you are, what have impressed you by your emotiva products? And how do you compare emotiva style with some of the popular european brands? Thanks!.... I lack experience with most of the European brands. As of now, yes, I am "settled down" with my (mostly) Emotiva system, and I think it's the equivalent of anything I've previously owned. Some of the systems that I've had that I found most impressive: Denon 103s cartridge + Magnepan unipivot tone arm + Russel Coco modified AR turntable + Sony HA-T10 step-up transformers + Van Alstine modified Dynaco PAS tube preamp + McIntosh MC350 power amplifier + Dahlquist DQ-10a loudspeakers Oppo BDP-95 disc player + Emotiva XDA-1 DAC + Emotiva USP-1 preamplifier + VTL compact 100 tube monoblock amplifiers + Klipsch La Scala speakers + Definitive Technology Trinity subwoofer Audioquest Dragonfly USB DAC + McIntosh C41 preamplifier + Emotiva XPA-2 power amplifier + Thiel 3.5 speakers Jolida tube DAC + Rogue Audio integrated tube amplifier + Thiel 1.6 speakers And, of course, my current system. What impressed me about Emotiva? First, their specifications for the price - I found nobody (not even cruddy-sounding "pro audio" power amps) that offered as many watts per dollar as Emotiva. Although some "pro" amps now offer more power per dollar, they don't come close to touching the sound quality of Emotiva. Second, their performance on an absolute scale - I've owned a number of "high end" brands over the years - Mark Levinson, Classe', PS Audio, VTL, Luxman, McIntosh, and others. I find that the Emotiva gear is competitive on a pure sound quality basis (regardless of price). Do other amps sound "better?" I couldn't say so definitively. I could say that other equipment sounds "different," but that the judgement of "better" is always subjective at this lofty level of performance. Differences are more minute, and the decision of "better" might well pivot not on the equipment itself, but on other less tangible factors. Third, combining the two above, Emotiva's performance and quality for price. With a five-year transferrable warranty, the Emo gear retains its resale value well. Other brands may sound equivalent or better, but not for anything less than between 2x and infinity times the Emotiva's price. Further, every time I've ever had to deal with Emotiva's service department, I've received prompt, courteous, and friendly service. I can't say the same about any other audio company that I can think of. Finally, the Emotiva components are flexible enough to work very well with every other component that I've paired them with. I've been through a FLOCK of speakers in my life, and most of them in the past decade. I never found a single speaker that sounded bad with the Emotiva amplifiers. The Emotiva gear is (to my ears) neutral enough to avoid exacerbating the shortcomings of other components. In fact, the neutrality of the Emotiva gear often goes a long way to minimize the shortcomings of other components. So to summarize, yes, I guess I'm an Emotiva fanboy - but don't think that I won't criticize (often very harshly) any product that I find less than stellar. In fact, look up my rant about the Stealth DC-1 DAC if you want a taste of my criticism... I expect nothing but "exceptional" from Emotiva, and am intolerant (to put it mildly) of anything less. The fact that I've had so little to criticize, despite owning (at one time or another) the bulk of Emotiva's product line speaks volumes toward the fine engineering capacity of the Emotiva team. I hope this answered your question? Cordially - Boomzilla |
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Post by Emosean on Apr 14, 2015 18:00:26 GMT -5
I used the DC-1 direct to the XPA-1 in my system, worked pretty good for me.
At that time I was using Legacy Focus speakers
Ultimately you should try it for yourself,
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Post by neo on Apr 14, 2015 19:48:51 GMT -5
I used the DC-1 direct to the XPA-1 in my system, worked pretty good for me. At that time I was using Legacy Focus speakers Ultimately you should try it for yourself, Thanks! Just want to confirm that the analog input on DC-1 is only for passby. It cannot be used a preamp for analog signal. Right? |
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Post by neo on Apr 14, 2015 20:11:15 GMT -5
Hi Boom, you seem to have experience with various HiFi products. Are you settled down on emotiva system? if you are, what have impressed you by your emotiva products? And how do you compare emotiva style with some of the popular european brands? Thanks!.... I lack experience with most of the European brands. As of now, yes, I am "settled down" with my (mostly) Emotiva system, and I think it's the equivalent of anything I've previously owned. Some of the systems that I've had that I found most impressive: Denon 103s cartridge + Magnepan unipivot tone arm + Russel Coco modified AR turntable + Sony HA-T10 step-up transformers + Van Alstine modified Dynaco PAS tube preamp + McIntosh MC350 power amplifier + Dahlquist DQ-10a loudspeakers Oppo BDP-95 disc player + Emotiva XDA-1 DAC + Emotiva USP-1 preamplifier + VTL compact 100 tube monoblock amplifiers + Klipsch La Scala speakers + Definitive Technology Trinity subwoofer Audioquest Dragonfly USB DAC + McIntosh C41 preamplifier + Emotiva XPA-2 power amplifier + Thiel 3.5 speakers Jolida tube DAC + Rogue Audio integrated tube amplifier + Thiel 1.6 speakers And, of course, my current system. What impressed me about Emotiva? First, their specifications for the price - I found nobody (not even cruddy-sounding "pro audio" power amps) that offered as many watts per dollar as Emotiva. Although some "pro" amps now offer more power per dollar, they don't come close to touching the sound quality of Emotiva. Second, their performance on an absolute scale - I've owned a number of "high end" brands over the years - Mark Levinson, Classe', PS Audio, VTL, Luxman, McIntosh, and others. I find that the Emotiva gear is competitive on a pure sound quality basis (regardless of price). Do other amps sound "better?" I couldn't say so definitively. I could say that other equipment sounds "different," but that the judgement of "better" is always subjective at this lofty level of performance. Differences are more minute, and the decision of "better" might well pivot not on the equipment itself, but on other less tangible factors. Third, combining the two above, Emotiva's performance and quality for price. With a five-year transferrable warranty, the Emo gear retains its resale value well. Other brands may sound equivalent or better, but not for anything less than between 2x and infinity times the Emotiva's price. Further, every time I've ever had to deal with Emotiva's service department, I've received prompt, courteous, and friendly service. I can't say the same about any other audio company that I can think of. Finally, the Emotiva components are flexible enough to work very well with every other component that I've paired them with. I've been through a FLOCK of speakers in my life, and most of them in the past decade. I never found a single speaker that sounded bad with the Emotiva amplifiers. The Emotiva gear is (to my ears) neutral enough to avoid exacerbating the shortcomings of other components. In fact, the neutrality of the Emotiva gear often goes a long way to minimize the shortcomings of other components. So to summarize, yes, I guess I'm an Emotiva fanboy - but don't think that I won't criticize (often very harshly) any product that I find less than stellar. In fact, look up my rant about the Stealth DC-1 DAC if you want a taste of my criticism... I expect nothing but "exceptional" from Emotiva, and am intolerant (to put it mildly) of anything less. The fact that I've had so little to criticize, despite owning (at one time or another) the bulk of Emotiva's product line speaks volumes toward the fine engineering capacity of the Emotiva team. I hope this answered your question? Cordially - Boomzilla Thanks a lot for sharing your experience. Yes, it answered my questions. By the way, I like Thiel. The resolution and imaging are fabulous. But I don't have a room for floor standing. |
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Post by neo on Apr 14, 2015 20:13:49 GMT -5
Welcome neo, so very happy you've found us!! Building from scratch,,,,,,,well!!,,,,,,,,,build it with Emotiva, you'll end up with a very silly looking smile on your face and a lot more money in your pocket!! Ah!,,,,almost forgot to serve you your first glass of cool aid! Yeah. I was search for used equipment to save costs. Now I think I will add emotiva as a main choice. I will report back what I end up with. |
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Post by audiobill on Apr 14, 2015 20:23:14 GMT -5
The analog inputs are active......go through an amplifier.
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Post by neo on Apr 14, 2015 20:26:51 GMT -5
Thanks garbulky! Are you using a preamp after DC-1? I think 24/192khz is sufficient for almost all high resolution digital music. Does 32/384khz really matter? Hi neo I just realized you are brand new to this? Welcome! Emotiva was my first audiophile brand I tried and boy oh boy was I glad I did. These guys are the real deal and then some especially with their amps and pre-amps. This'll be easy for you. Nearly any Emotiva product you buy will for SURE be worth its price. The vast majority will be worth much more than you paid for it. Also if you are new to high fidelity stuff your mind will be absoltuely blown at how much better it is than say the stuff you can get at deparmtent stores. Yes you can absolutely mix and match equipment. No problem. Okay the DC-1's pre-amp direct to amp is pretty decent. For instance it appears to have a bit more clarity than using a USP-1. It has most of the dynamics of the USP-1 and the XSP-1. The XSP-1 is a superior pre-amp. But I was reasonably impressed at how well the DC-1 did as a pre-amp....not perfect but serviceable. So for instance you can try your linn and see if it makes a difference. Currently I am running a DC-1 direct to my amps and liking the sound! Also the DC-1 headphone amp is really quite good (for an all in one unit) and drives my sennheiser HD600 headphones quite nicely. For instance, it is better than the amp on the XSP-1. No 32/384 khz doesn't really matter. There's almost no music out there that exists that is 32/384 khz. Most of the music out there is 16/44 khz. I'm just saying that their new dac designs might be even nicer who knows! Keep in mind though with emotiva, they tend to announce a product and then wait a loooong time to deliver it. So there's no guessing their timetable. And thankfully they have stopped announcing timetables for the most part. I think you should try out the DC-1 and then see what you think if you are satisfied. As for amps. Good news - you can use ANY emo amp. Dependso n how much you want to spend. The sweet spot is an XPA-200. The best would be an XPA-2. The nice budget value would be a UPA-200 or a mini-x. All of them will provide really nice volume. The mini-x will surprise you. Now it obviously has a bit les power but if you are in a small living room, you will likely be quite satisfied. It is not a wimpy reciever or anything like that. Let me give you a few setups that you can look for Absolute budget (computer usb only) Behringer UCA 202 ($30) Audioquest dragonfly 1.2 (wow! Really sweet sound) ($130-ish) to mini-x Schiit audio modi Amp Mini-x Medium budget (amp XPA-200 OR mini-x) DC-1 Large budget DC-1 to XSP-1 Amp XPA-2 Really large budget Oppo 105 to XSP-1 ( OR an XMC-1) Amp XPA-1 L's or XPA-1 gen 2 monoblocks Wires: get everything from monoprice (choose premium if given the choice, the cost is negligible). Also there is another REALLY cost effective path which imo is just as good as any of the "medium and large budget" paths Go with any of the airmotivs or stealth models. They are all woth the price. Connect it to the DC-1 and be completely blown away with how much you saved and what a GREAT sounding setup you have. (No spending on amps!) These speakers can REALLY perform. Thank you for the recommendations! I'm leaning towards DC-1. I also read reviews for mini-x. They are good! The only concern is if the claimed 50 w per channel is inflated. My speakers have 6.5in woofer, which indicates 60 w per channel without much distortion. the mini-x is on the edge. The 50 w is kind of bothering me. Do you think in terms of power, the mini-x can handle well with my speakers? |
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Post by pallpoul on Apr 14, 2015 20:28:09 GMT -5
the mini x will more then handle ur speakers
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