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Post by randallwhite on Apr 28, 2015 1:52:02 GMT -5
I've been trying to decide which amp I need/want to buy. Leaning towards the XPA-200 but have a couple questions.
What is the XPA-200 rated for 6 ohm speakers? Specifically NHT Classic Fours.
How far back are the feet on the XPA-200? My wife just bought a entertainment center and the depth is 17" but I can remove the back panel to make some more room. I'm hoping the feet aren't all the way at the back.
My plan is to have this amp power the L/R speakers and let me 3313ci power the other speakers. I have (4) NHT Threes and a ThreeC. The Fours are on order and I want to buy an amp to power them when they get here. My Denon receiver powers my current 5 speakers with no problems but I think the Fours deserve more power to get the most out of them.
Thanks for any help.
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Post by garbulky on Apr 28, 2015 2:07:54 GMT -5
There is no information available here on 6 ohm power. Maybe Emotiva can help you out. It is more than its 8 ohm rating though  Now most speakers will change their impedance over the frequency range so your 6 ohm speaker will be 4 ohms sometimes and 8 ohms other times. Though I can't be exact, I'm eyeballing it here, the feet start about an inch and a half to two inches from the back. If you are wondering if they are enough power. The answer is yes. However, that doesn't mean that a bigger amp like the XPA-2 won't do better. Just that, yes, when you get it, it will have enough power on tap for pretty much whatever it is you are planning to do with it. The XPA-200 is a solid power amp You won't be dissapointed with it. The gains to be go from going to a larger amp is there and in the right circumstances is audible but not the huge amount that you would expect. Basically you get what you spend...but at Emotiva, you get a whole lot for what you spend - regardless of the model - even their cheaper units. |
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Post by jackpine on Apr 28, 2015 2:23:53 GMT -5
The power should be about halfway between the 4 and 8 Ohm ratings, so about 195W. The XPA-200 should be very good. If your room is very large and you like really loud something a little bigger would be even better. I can't comment as to the feet location as I don't have an Emotiva amp.
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Post by yves on Apr 28, 2015 5:44:42 GMT -5
On my XPA-2 the back sides of the back feet are at 2¾" distance from the back side of the amp's housing (housing, not binding posts).
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Post by yves on Apr 28, 2015 6:00:39 GMT -5
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 28, 2015 9:31:43 GMT -5
I'm the heretic in the bunch - Excessive power is WAY overrated. The XPA series can power just about any speaker on the market with room to spare at reasonable levels and in a normal sized room. If (like novisnick) you want live performance levels and/or you listen in a cathedral sized room, then (and only then) will you need additional power. garbulky is also a fan of louder levels, hence his recommendation for higher power. I'm not saying that higher-powered amplifiers can't sound as good as lower-powered ones, only that it costs exponentially more money and engineering to make them do it. Some of the best sounding amps I've owned were lower powered ones that used fewer output devices. Getting a flock of output devices (transistors or tubes) to sing in chorus is like trying to herd cats. It can be done, but it isn't easy. There is a "purity" of sound in very low powered amplifiers that you just don't (usually) get in higher powered ones. That said, low powered amplifiers are more demanding in terms of high loudspeaker sensitivity, so you pays your money, you takes your choice. Since your speakers are already a settled choice, I'm of the opinion that ANY XPA-series amp will be more than sufficient. In fact, you might also consider the Mini-X or even the (now discontinued) UPA series amplifiers. I predict that you'll hear a significant difference with ANY of these choices over your Denon. Happy shopping! Boomzilla |
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Post by brubacca on Apr 28, 2015 9:53:50 GMT -5
At 86dB efficient, I have to say that your speakers are quite inefficient. It all depends on the levels you want to list at. If you are listening or concerned about mostly music at reasonable levels, then that XPA-200 is probably all you need/want. If you want 1980's Van Halen Levels or Action Movie THX loud then you probably would be better served going up to the XPA-2.
I have two pairs of 85dB efficient speakers (or as it should be said inefficient speakers). For regular music/TV listening my UPA-200 is really fine. But every 3dB is Double the power. So 88dB efficient speakers would play twice as loud on the same amp. I always feel that for big dynamic swings in movies or in music, that I'd like to have the extra power to see how much better it may be.
I did clip a pair of my speakers and blow the tweeter with really putting the hammer down on some Pearl Jam once. That would be with my upa-200. I had put it LOUD, I mean concert loud.
Good Luck.
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Post by garbulky on Apr 28, 2015 10:15:11 GMT -5
I would reccomend the XPA-200. More power will get you more mininmal improvements in compared to what you get with the XPA-200. Not that some people don't like that, but I would rather replace your Denon with a standalone processor than get a larger amp. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 28, 2015 11:20:10 GMT -5
I think that garbulky makes a good point. The usual way to improve SQ is at the two opposite ends of the chain - sources & speakers. Having a good processor will likely make more difference in your sound quality (all other things being equal) than a good power amp. That said, your AVR is probably doing a passable (but just) job on both signal processing and on power amplification. AVRs (and Denon is one of the worst) are famous for rating their receivers with only two channels driven and only at 1KHz (instead of 20 to 20K). This makes their receivers look far more powerful than they really are and helps sell to consumers who don't know any better. What the AVR manufacturers also don't tell you is that to stay ahead of the features curve, they have to sacrifice most everything else. All the bells & whistles that come with the AVR are usually at the expense of good engineering and quality parts (which usually DO make an audible difference) in the actual audio chain. Yes, you get "Hall, Club, Concert Hall, and Outer Space" sound processing effects, but most listeners (for good reason) never use those. So to summarize - Prioritize what you're trying to accomplish. Do you just want louder sound? If so, then maybe amplifiers (or speakers) would cure that itch. But if what you want is BETTER sound, then there may be more cost-efficient ways to accomplish that. Boom |
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Post by chaosrv on Apr 28, 2015 12:39:48 GMT -5
I think that garbulky makes a good point. The usual way to improve SQ is at the two opposite ends of the chain - sources & speakers. Having a good processor will likely make more difference in your sound quality (all other things being equal) than a good power amp. That said, your AVR is probably doing a passable (but just) job on both signal processing and on power amplification. AVRs (and Denon is one of the worst) are famous for rating their receivers with only two channels driven and only at 1KHz (instead of 20 to 20K). This makes their receivers look far more powerful than they really are and helps sell to consumers who don't know any better. What the AVR manufacturers also don't tell you is that to stay ahead of the features curve, they have to sacrifice most everything else. All the bells & whistles that come with the AVR are usually at the expense of good engineering and quality parts (which usually DO make an audible difference) in the actual audio chain. Yes, you get "Hall, Club, Concert Hall, and Outer Space" sound processing effects, but most listeners (for good reason) never use those. So to summarize - Prioritize what you're trying to accomplish. Do you just want louder sound? If so, then maybe amplifiers (or speakers) would cure that itch. But if what you want is BETTER sound, then there may be more cost-efficient ways to accomplish that. Boom Outer Space? Does the AVR shut off or something?  |
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Post by garbulky on Apr 28, 2015 12:59:36 GMT -5
Of course not! It just gets a bit quieter because of the vacuum.
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Post by randallwhite on Apr 28, 2015 16:01:44 GMT -5
Wow! Thank you. I was looking at the UPA-200 but was told that it wouldn't be enough power. So I started looking at the XPA-3 and was told that I should just end up powering all my speakers with standalone amps or buy a massive one. My room is decent sized 20x19 with 8-10' sloped ceilings. For my listening levels my receiver powers my speakers just fine, never clipped or anything like that. From reading on NHT, to make them really shine, they require power. I really like my Three's but my wife said I need to buy towers because we are expecting a little one here soon. So that is why I'm buying the Four's. My wife also loves these speakers, so with the OK to buy new ones I'm all for it.
Listening levels for movies is -10 to -20 (depending on the movie and wifes mood)
Music is about the same. Some songs we really crank it up but never to ear bleeding levels.
So from what I've read above. The XPA-200 will be plenty of power for those speakers. Only thing next is, making sure the feet will fit on the stand.
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Post by dougport on Apr 28, 2015 16:09:22 GMT -5
I didn't measure but just looking at my XPA-200 I would say both the front and back feet are recessed in around 2 1/2"
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Post by randallwhite on Apr 28, 2015 16:15:30 GMT -5
^^^ That's good to know. I believe my stand is only 16-17" deep, but has a removable panel in the rear. I'm not worried about over hang, just want it on the stand itself.
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Post by garbulky on Apr 28, 2015 16:53:07 GMT -5
BTW, despite the ratings, I am inclined to believe that the UPA-200 will push pretty much about as much power as the XPA-200. They are both competent amps but the choice is that the xpa-200 has more build quality. Here are the differences: The UPA-200 has a fan (which almost never turns on). The XPA-200 does not need a fan (it has large heat sinks). THe XPA-200 has two amp blades. The UPA-200 has one. THe XPA-200 has 80,000 mf of capacitance, the upa-200 has less. The XPA-200 can take XLR inputs - though keep in mind, like nearly most power amps in the less than $1500 price range, they are not fully balanced XLR. It just has them. The XPA-200 has I think a slightly larger power supply. Both happen to also sound fabulous But in terms of grunt and power, I would be surprised if the XPA-200 was audibly louder. This is because once you get into the hundreds of watts range, you need a HUGE amount of more power to get an audible difference. For instance the difference between the XPR-1 and say an XPA-2 is I think something like 3db of volume. So really the choice is simply an either or both will get you to about the same place, the xpa-200 may be slightly more refined at the same volume than the upa-200. As for an XPA-3, it is a beast. And also...most of the unused power from say the third channel will be channeled towards the stereo channels giving you significantly higher than its rated output. This is true of all emotiva amps. For instance the old upa-500 I think is rated at 80 watts per channel. But it will do 160 watts per channel when only two channels are used. The XPA-1 is rated 500 watts @ 8 ohms. But it can put out a mind bogglingly 18000 watts @ a 2 ohm load limited mainly by the voltage sag on a 15 amp line. The XPA-5 does 200 watts per channel, but can do 350 watts per channel in just stereo 2 channel mode. Also the amps are also designed with a certain amount of headroom. So for a very short amount of time needed for musical bursts the amps will deliver a much larger amount of power than they are rated for. Why? Because Emotiva churns out some good quality stuff! |
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Post by deltadube on Apr 28, 2015 17:21:20 GMT -5
I've been trying to decide which amp I need/want to buy. Leaning towards the XPA-200 but have a couple questions. What is the XPA-200 rated for 6 ohm speakers? Specifically NHT Classic Fours. How far back are the feet on the XPA-200? My wife just bought a entertainment center and the depth is 17" but I can remove the back panel to make some more room. I'm hoping the feet aren't all the way at the back. My plan is to have this amp power the L/R speakers and let me 3313ci power the other speakers. I have (4) NHT Threes and a ThreeC. The Fours are on order and I want to buy an amp to power them when they get here. My Denon receiver powers my current 5 speakers with no problems but I think the Fours deserve more power to get the most out of them. Thanks for any help. hey welcome to the forum .. I using the 3313ci.. get the xpa 5 instead or the 3.. and a set of mono blocks in the future... cheers |
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Post by randallwhite on Apr 28, 2015 21:24:46 GMT -5
I've been trying to decide which amp I need/want to buy. Leaning towards the XPA-200 but have a couple questions. What is the XPA-200 rated for 6 ohm speakers? Specifically NHT Classic Fours. How far back are the feet on the XPA-200? My wife just bought a entertainment center and the depth is 17" but I can remove the back panel to make some more room. I'm hoping the feet aren't all the way at the back. My plan is to have this amp power the L/R speakers and let me 3313ci power the other speakers. I have (4) NHT Threes and a ThreeC. The Fours are on order and I want to buy an amp to power them when they get here. My Denon receiver powers my current 5 speakers with no problems but I think the Fours deserve more power to get the most out of them. Thanks for any help. hey welcome to the forum .. I using the 3313ci.. get the xpa 5 instead or the 3.. and a set of mono blocks in the future... cheers Thanks! It took about a week to get approved. I always popped over here for information but never registered. I wanted to send a PM so had to join finally. I would love to buy a XPA-5 BUT with the addition coming to the family our funds will be focused on our little girl. Maybe in the future when I can build a dedicated space I'll buy a larger amp. Once I start buying amp(s), my next upgrade is to replace my receiver. |
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Post by frisco on Apr 28, 2015 22:57:35 GMT -5
This is a very helpful discussion. I'd like to get XPA-100s but I've been staring at my furniture and can't see a place for two amps, particularly with a preamp without serious redecorating. It sounds like the XPA 200 will get me the lions share of sound improvement compared to my Denon avr.
but what about a preamp? A XSP would take up space and I don't need all the balanced circuitry. I have a dc1-1 downstairs in the study, moving it would create a hole in my study system. Buy a second dc1? Look for a used usp 1? other options?
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Post by Gary Cook on Apr 28, 2015 23:04:06 GMT -5
Bring the DC-1 upstairs and replace it with an Ego.
Cheers
Gary
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Post by frisco on Apr 28, 2015 23:13:06 GMT -5
Alas, I'm using the dc1 as a pre for a min x, so I'm still be short a pre amp.
The big ego is intriguing though
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Now most speakers will change their impedance over the frequency range so your 6 ohm speaker will be 4 ohms sometimes and 8 ohms other times. Though I can't be exact, I'm eyeballing it here, the feet start about an inch and a half to two inches from the back. 
