DYohn
Emo VIPs
Posts: 18,353
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Post by DYohn on Aug 1, 2015 13:20:07 GMT -5
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Post by jmilton on Aug 1, 2015 13:38:12 GMT -5
Boom, I never expect obsequies from you. Never.
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Post by garbulky on Aug 1, 2015 13:53:32 GMT -5
jmilton - taking puns to the next level.
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Post by knucklehead on Aug 1, 2015 14:46:11 GMT -5
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Post by garbulky on Aug 6, 2015 15:13:06 GMT -5
Ok it looks like I'm settling in on used XPA-1 gen 2's being my next upgrade. I have looked at some audi gd amps that look appealing as well as some ATI amps but their price prevents me from jumping on them. Right now I can't find another 60 watt class A fully balanced monoblock anywhere near the price.
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Post by Boomzilla on Aug 6, 2015 16:44:57 GMT -5
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Post by bluemeanies on Aug 6, 2015 17:18:05 GMT -5
Don't know where you are at musically Garbulky but if you are heavy into R&R by all means the bigger the better since a lot of people here like it LOUD! I was always into more power the better and playing music loud does not make it sound better, it just makes it LOUDER. I have B&W 804S speakers and was told even from the sales person that I had known for 20+ years that I needed POWER! 250watts or better. B&W thirst for power, I was told. Now to my surprise and happiness I am driving my 804S speakers with 35 watts per channel with tubes amplifiers from Bob Latino. I am not telling you to buy tubes but what I am telling you is that for me personally I could not be happier with the clarity, deminision, and depth I have with my 2channel system in a room that is 25' long 13' wide with and average ceiling hieght of 6'4".
Good hunting Garbulky
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Post by garbulky on Aug 6, 2015 17:21:52 GMT -5
However, one thing holding me back is the home theater hi fi review of the XPA-1 gen 2. They mentioned tweeter hiss, and repeatedly low SNR values. They didn't mention much about sound quality other than it had lots of power. According to them most of this was due to the thermal noise and something to do with input impedance which I had no idea what they meant. Anyway, I want to know if any XPA-1 gen 2 owners specifically can give me their subjective impressions. Do you feel that there is anything in terms of detail that the amps are holding back? Would I be better off with two XPA-1 L's? My speakers are slightly higher than 90 db efficient. However they are demanding of amplifers. For instance I have heard the Crowns and several not so robust amps cry uncle and drop the bass and mid bass on these units. Not so much with Emo amps though.
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Post by Boomzilla on Aug 6, 2015 18:23:16 GMT -5
Well... We KNOW that XPA-2, XPR-2, XPA-1L, and even A-100 Mini-X amps work just fine with speakers up to & including the Axiom M80s... No tweeter hiss is audible (or has been with any of these amps) even with one's ears against the tweeters... So my conclusion is that maybe the HTHF folks tested a defective sample? It's unfortunate, but it does happen... A follow up test might be appropriate? My advice is simple - Believe less of what you read and even less of what others claim that they "measure." Not to say that you can't read for fun, but when your $$ are on the table, believe your own EARS. It IS hard to let go of your hard earned cash on components that the press claims aren't so great. It's even harder, though, to buy a product that's been consistently RAVE reviewed & then find that it's a sonic stinker. It DOES happen. I don't judge products anymore on their reviews. Nor do I automatically equate price with performance. The one metric I consider valid is "how long has this product been in production?" If it's decades or more, then the product may be good. The McIntosh MC-275 tube amplifier, for example, has had a relatively LONG product run & is probably a superior product. The Klipschorn speaker has been in continuous production since the 1940's and is STILL the lowest-distortion loudspeaker commercially available in the world. The Magnepan speakers are another superior product with a long history.. If the manufacturer brings out a "newest & greatest" every year, then I've got to wonder "What was wrong with the old one?" That said, NONE of my equipment is "classic." I did, however, listen carefully. And I continuously compare to whatever other equipment rolls through the place. If something is bested by another component, then I'll "upgrade" in a heartbeat, but once a certain level of performance is found, upgrades become significantly less likely. Or, said another way, eventually you pay more and more money for less and less improvement in sound. IMHO, your system would benefit from the following improvements (in order of magnitude): 1. Get a bigger room with room treatment 2. Add a preamp 3. Add a subwoofer 4. Add a second one 5. Add a turntable 6. Upgrade the DAC 7. Upgrade the amplifiers And as always, I could be wrong...
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Post by Gary Cook on Aug 6, 2015 20:21:43 GMT -5
Would I be better off with two XPA-1 L's? Financially, hell yes, as a lot of guys have said, the XPA-1L is about the sweat spot in the value for money Emotiva monoblocks. But that said I tend to agree with boom, personally I'd get a sub first. That takes a lot of the load off the FL and FR speakers and amplification. To do that I'd suggest a pre amp with analogue bass management, like an XSP-1. Once you have the pre amp and sub in place you may find that a power amp upgrade isn't required. If it is, then a pair of XPA-1L's will do the job. Cheers Gary
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Post by garbulky on Aug 6, 2015 21:19:14 GMT -5
Thanks Gary Cook and BoomzillaA pre amp upgrade is definitely in the works. And so are subs. No doubt about it. Unless I somehow find that I really don't want subs after the amp and pre amp upgrade (shared walls with neighbors). However I've got my eyes stuck on the amps first. I know that it will probably be the least improvement but when you've got to scratch an itch you gotta do it! Besides I am completely enamored with idea of fully balanced - even if you don't really have an audible increase. Now I have seriously thought about XPA-1 L's . I've heard them. They sound good. I am drawn by the small form factor and the bi amping capability with independent power supplies. But I keep thinking....am I going to keep wondering about the big boy XPA-1 amp? Last time I seriously upgraded was quite some time ago. And usually when I upgrade I don't go about re-upgrading for some time. So I figure spend the pocket money now rather than wringing my hands for the better part of a decade! B'zilla: The room change is as you can imagine pretty hard to do. I could likely get more space turning the room around on its side. But I hesitate blocking the hallway area to the kitchen with my recliner. But not impossible. Just may really be rough on aesthetics. The turn table is likely never going to happen though I was quite impressed with Nick's Rega TT. Mostly because I'll have to go buy records. And I like my digital having spent lots of time with it I'm hoping the schiit yggdrassil will scratch the itch for a more analog sound. As that's essentially what reviews are trying to say it does. However down the road, I plan to get some bad boy headphone amps, wire my HD600 with a balanced cable and go to town. But that will be quiet a long ways off. I've always thought about Little Dot amps. Likely this www.littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=871&sid=fc41d613111126c9c88f43757b56c0c2Or maybe one of schiits uber tube amps. Who knows!
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Post by brutiarti on Aug 6, 2015 21:22:50 GMT -5
We only live once, Sometimes is just better pull the trigger, hehe
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Post by Gary Cook on Aug 6, 2015 22:12:49 GMT -5
But I keep thinking....am I going to keep wondering about the big boy XPA-1 amp? Last time I seriously upgraded was quite some time ago. And usually when I upgrade I don't go about re-upgrading for some time. So I figure spend the pocket money now rather than wringing my hands for the better part of a decade! My view, keeping in mind that there is no bad decision here, it's all good. If you get a pair of XPA-1's they may well be the appropriate choice when you have no sub and no analogue bass management. But when you do have a sub and analogue bass management a pair of XPA-1L's may well have been the appropriate choice. Let's face it for the additional cost of a pair of XPA-1's over a pair of XPA-1L's you could buy a pretty decent sub. And I'll bet that the sub would add more to your listening enjoyment than the XPA-1's would over the XPA-1L's. Tubes, sorry I can't contribute there, I gave up on tubes 30+ years ago and I've not found any reason to change or regret that decision Cheers Gary
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Post by ottaone on Aug 6, 2015 23:23:35 GMT -5
Ijumped from page 1 to 5 so I'm not sure if it's been suggested. Since you seem to like biamp, how about stealth 6 or 8? Sale of axiom plus cost of XPAs are probably equal to the Stealth 6s. Small format factor to boot.
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Post by garbulky on Aug 6, 2015 23:59:16 GMT -5
@ottatone. I've only heard the airmotivs. I thought they had exceptional value. However if I change speakers, I will go upstream in price. But no plans on speaker changing. Thanks for a good suggestion though. I did consider it. I am not sure if it will necessarily be an upgrade to what I've got though something tells me it will sound very good.
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Post by Boomzilla on Aug 7, 2015 16:30:56 GMT -5
Speakers to consider: Revel Performa F206 Magneplanar 3.7 QR Avalon Symbol (discontinued & need a sub or two) Or even these (need no introduction) And I might consider... or else
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Post by garbulky on Oct 8, 2015 20:02:08 GMT -5
As I iiiiinnnnnchhh my way towards my first big purchase - still a ways away, I just wanted to update the forum on what it's going to be. It''s going to be a pair of XPA-1 gen 2's. And they will be used! I REALLY should be getting the ridiculously fantastic XSP-1 gen 2 from novisnick who has it on sale right now. But The heart wants wants what it wants. I have longed for a fully balanced setup since the first time I got my UPA-2. And I believe the XPA-1 gen 2's will be just the ticket. Combine it with the amazing 60 watts of class A it will bring...drool city! Granted it's not what will give me the most value for money - the XSP-1 and the schiit yggy will be it. But this is the first step to producing a fully balanced product from end to end. Then I can add on to it step by step keeping it fully balanced the whole way. Did I mention fully balanced?
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Post by vneal on Oct 8, 2015 20:07:49 GMT -5
If you consider the Thiel CS3.7s you need at least 250-400 clean watts. I know
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Post by garbulky on Dec 4, 2015 1:26:23 GMT -5
***AHEM***** So I have some news....... More to come!!
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