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Post by Kent on May 14, 2015 23:26:09 GMT -5
Hello All, My system is dead quiet I'm pleased to say. The amps I'm using are XPR-1's for front L&R and a Audio Refinement Multi 5 for centre and surrounds. I've had systems where I've had to work for it by tracking down and eliminating ground loops. Even routing wires a different way has helped reduce noise in some cases. One system required the only ac ground to be through the pre amp. If my tube monoblocks cords were grounded it was unlistenable. When I was using my Multi 5 to power my entire home theatre at another house I had noise issues until I tracked down the source and fixed it. Same amp is used today and everything is silent. I completely understand how frustrating this can be but it may not be the amp's fault so I urge you not to pass judgement too fast on Emotiva?  I sincerely wish you the best of luck resolving this issue so you can enjoy your system again. Kent |
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Post by stanlee on May 15, 2015 1:06:15 GMT -5
I completely understand how frustrating this can be but it may not be the amp's fault so I urge you not to pass judgement too fast on Emotiva? I sincerely wish you the best of luck resolving this issue so you can enjoy your system again. Kent Well the first I thing did was call Emotiva and they said it was normal for an amp that powerful (albeit their reference amp) to make some noise especially less than a feet away......so naturally I assumed that this is a known factor and Emotiva choose to live with the problem and call it normal. If it wasn't normal, they would've trouble shoot it with me. |
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Post by geebo on May 15, 2015 7:05:11 GMT -5
I completely understand how frustrating this can be but it may not be the amp's fault so I urge you not to pass judgement too fast on Emotiva? I sincerely wish you the best of luck resolving this issue so you can enjoy your system again. Kent Well the first I thing did was call Emotiva and they said it was normal for an amp that powerful (albeit their reference amp) to make some noise especially less than a feet away......so naturally I assumed that this is a known factor and Emotiva choose to live with the problem and call it normal. If it wasn't normal, they would've trouble shoot it with me. Is it less than a foot away as indicated in the 2nd post or less than a few feet away? |
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Post by stanlee on May 15, 2015 10:32:28 GMT -5
Less than a feet. But distance should not matter, It's a reference amp, NOT some $300 Yamaha or Sony receiver from bestbuy.
If you're gonna call it a "reference amp", than the only thing that should be coming out of it is music. Nothing else.
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Post by monkumonku on May 15, 2015 10:39:12 GMT -5
Less than a feet. But distance should not matter, It's a reference amp, NOT some $300 Yamaha or Sony receiver from bestbuy. If you're gonna call it a "reference amp", than the only thing that should be coming out of it is music. Nothing else. As has been mentioned by others in the thread, low level noise from amps at close range is not considered abnormal or some sort of defect. My XPA-5 has a low level hiss, and so did my XPA-1's, but I couldn't hear them from more than a foot away and they never interfered with my enjoying the music. Given all the things in a normal house that can cause electrical interference or noise, there may be something in the circuitry of your house that is causing what you hear; those things can't be ruled out until everything is tested. It seems if this bothers you so much the ideal solution would be to make use of Emo's 30 day trial/return period so that you can sleep at night.  |
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on May 15, 2015 11:41:22 GMT -5
Less than a feet. But distance should not matter, It's a reference amp, NOT some $300 Yamaha or Sony receiver from bestbuy. If you're gonna call it a "reference amp", than the only thing that should be coming out of it is music. Nothing else. The funny thing is that the $300 yamahas or onkyos were quieter than my xpa-5. I couldn't believe how loud the hiss was out of that one. Gen 1. But running it via onkyo receiver at the time, the sound at my listening position was 1000x better. Also like you, I reached out to my buddy concerned about the hiss and he said it was normal. Took a bit to digest it. My xpa-5 was noisier than my XPR-5 but then remembered that I only had unbalanced in that setup vs balanced now with the XMC-1 and the gain was higher. And please remember the "reference" amp was $2k. I accept that you get what you pay for. In my case, my XPR-2 sounds no worse than McIntosh monoblocks. |
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Post by jlamo on May 15, 2015 12:41:11 GMT -5
When I had my two dedicated 20a circuits for my home theater installed a couple of years ago, the electrician that came made a comment about some of the other circuits in my panel that were sharing neutrals, and that he wouldn't have either of my dedicated circuits sharing neutrals. Well I'm no expert in electricity, nor do I want to be, but he did say something to the effect that by not sharing neutrals that this would keep "electrical noise" on these two dedicated circuits to a bare minimum and that if I had noticed a hiss/buzz from my speakers before, that most likely they would be diminished to the point that I wouldn't notice them anymore. Anyhow, this is how I interpreted his explanation of what he did as he did ask initially what I'd be using these dedicated circuits for. Well I did notice a difference of the "electrical" noise in the shared 15a circuits I had been using before and now the dedicated 20a circuits. There is no introduced noise from turning on lights, HVAC, refrigerator, etc., etc., etc., now and there was before. I guess what I'm trying to say is there is a difference in having dedicated circuits in my case as the noise floor of my XPR-2 & XPR-5 are dead quiet with my extremely efficient Klipsch speakers and hardly noticeable with my ears within millimeters of the tweeters. I completely agree with the idea that separate neutrals help. I worked in and around electrical for a period of time (father is a retired electrician, and worked with him years ago) and neutrals are commonly overlooked and treated by some as inferior to the hot leg. |
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Post by stanlee on May 16, 2015 6:13:06 GMT -5
I will look into the neutral wiring issue. I hope that's what it is and hopefully it's an easy fix.
If I lived in TN, I would drive the XPR personally back to Emotiva and return it. Shipping it back from California is not economical. It'll be penny wise to simply tolerate this less than "reference" amp until I get my hands on something better. At this point, it's simply a place holder.
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Post by jcam2881 on May 16, 2015 6:45:46 GMT -5
I will look into the neutral wiring issue. I hope that's what it is and hopefully it's an easy fix. If I lived in TN, I would drive the XPR personally back to Emotiva and return it. Shipping it back from California is not economical. It'll be penny wise to simply tolerate this less than "reference" amp until I get my hands on something better. At this point, it's simply a place holder. How does it sound to you listening to music ? anyway to try out another amp to compare ? Curious. |
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Post by guzz46 on May 16, 2015 7:18:40 GMT -5
The source can play a role too, I used to have an Oppo BDP93-NXE, and when I plugged it direct into my XPA-1's there was massive hiss, I'm talking levels that would easily interfere with movies from my listening position, I had to buy a passive preamp and keep it halfway on the volume in order to keep the hiss to a normal level (a very quiet hiss in a very quiet room from less than a foot away)
Now I have a Cambridge 752, and I can plug it direct into my XPA-1's and have the same noise level as the NXE with the passive preamp, so I got rid of the passive preamp.
I'm no expert, but I believe it's a combination of things, like amp, speakers, source, preamp etc... which could be why some people have some quiet hiss from less than a foot away, and others have none.
I also have slightly more hiss from my center and rears which are powered by my XPA-3 than from my mains which are powered by my XPA-1's.
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Post by vneal on May 16, 2015 7:22:47 GMT -5
Sorry for your trouble. Personally I would not settle for an amp that audibly has humming at the speaker. I am not convinced it is the amp completely. Try it with a different preamp. Add source units one at a time.This should find the trouble. I once had some slight hum-culprit was a cheap phono preamp with the plug in transformer. I will have none of these cheapo items in my system. Amps should be dead quiet in a system IMHO or that is not the amp for me
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Post by stanlee on May 16, 2015 8:48:40 GMT -5
I did trouble shoot it by disconnecting everything to the XPR and left only the speaker cables. I still heard the hiss and buzz. I'm gonna look into the neutral wiring phenomena and try to separate it if it's indeed shared with another breaker.
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Post by stanlee on May 16, 2015 8:51:02 GMT -5
When I hook up my speakers back to my trusted work horse, the anthem integrated 225, no noise. Zero. Nada. Zilch.
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Post by dennis99 on May 16, 2015 11:03:35 GMT -5
When I had my two dedicated 20a circuits for my home theater installed a couple of years ago, the electrician that came made a comment about some of the other circuits in my panel that were sharing neutrals, and that he wouldn't have either of my dedicated circuits sharing neutrals. Well I'm no expert in electricity, nor do I want to be, but he did say something to the effect that by not sharing neutrals that this would keep "electrical noise" on these two dedicated circuits to a bare minimum and that if I had noticed a hiss/buzz from my speakers before, that most likely they would be diminished to the point that I wouldn't notice them anymore. Anyhow, this is how I interpreted his explanation of what he did as he did ask initially what I'd be using these dedicated circuits for. Well I did notice a difference of the "electrical" noise in the shared 15a circuits I had been using before and now the dedicated 20a circuits. There is no introduced noise from turning on lights, HVAC, refrigerator, etc., etc., etc., now and there was before. I guess what I'm trying to say is there is a difference in having dedicated circuits in my case as the noise floor of my XPR-2 & XPR-5 are dead quiet with my extremely efficient Klipsch speakers and hardly noticeable with my ears within millimeters of the tweeters. Not quite sure if I was reading your post correctly, and I understand you're not an expert, if you google this info, there is only 1 neutral in a panel and it also share with earth ground. Every single breakers in that panel will share neutral on same bar inside that panel box. Not quite understand when your electrician by saying not sharing neutral, so where does he get neutral from?. I assume he eliminate the ground wire or commonly use "aka" cheat adapter 3 to 2 prong to eliminate noise. If that the case, I would be cautious when touching outer metal jacket of your amp or any related equipment that is plug into that outlet. |
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on May 16, 2015 12:36:19 GMT -5
When I had my two dedicated 20a circuits for my home theater installed a couple of years ago, the electrician that came made a comment about some of the other circuits in my panel that were sharing neutrals, and that he wouldn't have either of my dedicated circuits sharing neutrals. Well I'm no expert in electricity, nor do I want to be, but he did say something to the effect that by not sharing neutrals that this would keep "electrical noise" on these two dedicated circuits to a bare minimum and that if I had noticed a hiss/buzz from my speakers before, that most likely they would be diminished to the point that I wouldn't notice them anymore. Anyhow, this is how I interpreted his explanation of what he did as he did ask initially what I'd be using these dedicated circuits for. Well I did notice a difference of the "electrical" noise in the shared 15a circuits I had been using before and now the dedicated 20a circuits. There is no introduced noise from turning on lights, HVAC, refrigerator, etc., etc., etc., now and there was before. I guess what I'm trying to say is there is a difference in having dedicated circuits in my case as the noise floor of my XPR-2 & XPR-5 are dead quiet with my extremely efficient Klipsch speakers and hardly noticeable with my ears within millimeters of the tweeters. Not quite sure if I was reading your post correctly, and I understand you're not an expert, if you google this info, there is only 1 neutral in a panel and it also share with earth ground. Every single breakers in that panel will share neutral on same bar inside that panel box. Not quite understand when your electrician by saying not sharing neutral, so where does he get neutral from?. I assume he eliminate the ground wire or commonly use "aka" cheat adapter 3 to 2 prong to eliminate noise. If that the case, I would be cautious when touching outer metal jacket of your amp or any related equipment that is plug into that outlet. From my understanding a neutral is connected directly to the ground connection at the circuit breaker panel, thus directly connected to the ground wire. So this means that two of the three wires at a wall receptacle are actually ground wires, one for power flow and the other for exposed metal on equipment(the neutral wire). This leads to dedicated circuits that keeps other loads from sharing the same power wires, thus not allowing a voltage drop on the dedicated line. This also keeps other loads from sharing the same grounding wire, which if shared could allow electrical noise in the shared connection, and causing a different voltage at the load as opposed to the panel. Thus the whole point of a dedicated line. Hopefully my understanding of neutrals and grounds are premised correctly(like you said I said I'm no expert  ) as I do understand that there are lots of mis-conceptions of neutrals and grounds. I'm also hoping that at least one of our Lounge members, "solarrdadd" (an electrician by trade if I remember correctly), might be able to explain the possible electrical noise that can find it's way in to circuits and if this might be a possible factor in the OP's problem. |
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Post by dennis99 on May 16, 2015 13:15:17 GMT -5
Not quite sure if I was reading your post correctly, and I understand you're not an expert, if you google this info, there is only 1 neutral in a panel and it also share with earth ground. Every single breakers in that panel will share neutral on same bar inside that panel box. Not quite understand when your electrician by saying not sharing neutral, so where does he get neutral from?. I assume he eliminate the ground wire or commonly use "aka" cheat adapter 3 to 2 prong to eliminate noise. If that the case, I would be cautious when touching outer metal jacket of your amp or any related equipment that is plug into that outlet. From my understanding a neutral is connected directly to the ground connection at the circuit breaker panel, thus directly connected to the ground wire. So this means that two of the three wires at a wall receptacle are actually ground wires, one for power flow and the other for exposed metal on equipment(the neutral wire). This leads to dedicated circuits that keeps other loads from sharing the same power wires, thus not allowing a voltage drop on the dedicated line. This also keeps other loads from sharing the same grounding wire, which if shared could allow electrical noise in the shared connection, and causing a different voltage at the load as opposed to the panel. Thus the whole point of a dedicated line. Hopefully my understanding of neutrals and grounds are premised correctly(like you said I said I'm no expert ) as I do understand that there are lots of mis-conceptions of neutrals and grounds. I'm also hoping that at least one of our Lounge members, "solarrdadd" (an electrician by trade if I remember correctly), might be able to explain the possible electrical noise that can find it's way in to circuits and if this might be a possible factor in the OP's problem. Fun part of this story is " the electrician that came made a comment about some of the other circuits in my panel that were sharing neutrals, and that he wouldn't have either of my dedicated circuits sharing neutrals ". I would be questioning this guy license because it the first I heard in years, but there are some out there. In an average home, a single 15amp breaker at the panel run to a room by a 14g wire are commonly share with many other (outlets and lights) are normal nothing wrong or strange about it, but pulling 2 dedicated lines with receptacle next to each other and share neutral between the two that would absolutely make no sense, since it already a dedicated line from beginning. |
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Post by dennis99 on May 16, 2015 13:37:52 GMT -5
I did trouble shoot it by disconnecting everything to the XPR and left only the speaker cables. I still heard the hiss and buzz. I'm gonna look into the neutral wiring phenomena and try to separate it if it's indeed shared with another breaker. The hiss and buzz is a pain to diagnose. The first thing you need to do is find an outlet that is not share with others is time consuming, because they usually all share unless previous owner or yourself pull a dedicated line at that location. The only place to find a dedicated line quickly is your bathroom receptacle or in your kitchen. I would start looking at those 2 places first and run an extension cable to your rig, unless you want to carry the amp and speaker to that location, also makes sure your power cable and speaakers wire are not near of each other, and last...if possible try heavy gauge speaker wire (at least 12g) since this is a high current amp. This will give you a clear final answer quickly. |
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Post by pedrocols on May 16, 2015 13:44:07 GMT -5
Ditch the amps if you re not completely happy. End of story.
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on May 16, 2015 14:09:33 GMT -5
From my understanding a neutral is connected directly to the ground connection at the circuit breaker panel, thus directly connected to the ground wire. So this means that two of the three wires at a wall receptacle are actually ground wires, one for power flow and the other for exposed metal on equipment(the neutral wire). This leads to dedicated circuits that keeps other loads from sharing the same power wires, thus not allowing a voltage drop on the dedicated line. This also keeps other loads from sharing the same grounding wire, which if shared could allow electrical noise in the shared connection, and causing a different voltage at the load as opposed to the panel. Thus the whole point of a dedicated line. Hopefully my understanding of neutrals and grounds are premised correctly(like you said I said I'm no expert ) as I do understand that there are lots of mis-conceptions of neutrals and grounds. I'm also hoping that at least one of our Lounge members, "solarrdadd" (an electrician by trade if I remember correctly), might be able to explain the possible electrical noise that can find it's way in to circuits and if this might be a possible factor in the OP's problem. Fun part of this story is " the electrician that came made a comment about some of the other circuits in my panel that were sharing neutrals, and that he wouldn't have either of my dedicated circuits sharing neutrals ". I would be questioning this guy license because it the first I heard in years, but there are some out there. In an average home, a single 15amp breaker at the panel run to a room by a 14g wire are commonly share with many other (outlets and lights) are normal nothing wrong or strange about it, but pulling 2 dedicated lines with receptacle next to each other and share neutral between the two that would absolutely make no sense, since it already a dedicated line from beginning. I could've easily mis-interpreted what he said about my panel and about what he was going to do and how it would help in my case with my home theater. I just know that he had an electrical contractors license from the DBPR in the state of Florida(as I looked online in their database to make sure) and that by code in my county of residence a licensed electrician was required. Again my knowledge of the NEC is quite limited and I would never trust myself or want to do any work in a panel except changing the actual breaker itself. |
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Post by stanlee on May 17, 2015 0:34:58 GMT -5
I did trouble shoot it by disconnecting everything to the XPR and left only the speaker cables. I still heard the hiss and buzz. I'm gonna look into the neutral wiring phenomena and try to separate it if it's indeed shared with another breaker. The hiss and buzz is a pain to diagnose. The first thing you need to do is find an outlet that is not share with others is time consuming, because they usually all share unless previous owner or yourself pull a dedicated line at that location. The only place to find a dedicated line quickly is your bathroom receptacle or in your kitchen. I would start looking at those 2 places first and run an extension cable to your rig, unless you want to carry the amp and speaker to that location, also makes sure your power cable and speaakers wire are not near of each other, and last...if possible try heavy gauge speaker wire (at least 12g) since this is a high current amp. This will give you a clear final answer quickly. Dennis I hired a electrician to pull a dedicated 12 awg wire from the panel to the XPR's location with a 20 amp breaker to a 20 amp outlet just as recommended by Emotiva. And yes the neutral wire is dedicated as well. Not shared. And yes speaker wires are heavy gauge quad mogami cables. |
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) as I do understand that there are lots of mis-conceptions of neutrals and grounds.
