Newbie

[AudioBear]

Sept 21, 2015 14:38:07 GMT -5 drtrey3 said:

Welcome! You have found a great place to hang out! Heck, you can upgrade your speakers in a magnificent way just trying out the speakers that Boomzilla is done with!

Trey

If I had unlimited space and funds I imagine a room with speakers selectable by mood and genre. 

[klinemj]

AudioBear

Welcome! It looks like you have a very good start at your system. Enjoy it as you have it, and beware the upgrade bug...it is not curable. Trust me on that!

Mark

[highfihoney]

Sept 21, 2015 11:06:10 GMT -5 AudioBear said:

Hi all, newbie to the lounge here.  I'm from Michigan and have been interested in hifi audio for some years, but it wasn't until recently that I was able to afford anything really nice.  I'm pretty happy with my setup now, choosing speakers has always been the hardest for me as there really isn't anywhere locally to audition things, so it's a lot of reading reviews online and making educated decisions.  I haunt a few forums but this is my first time registering on one.   

Howdy Neighbor , im in Frankenmuth half the year & then in Bloomfield Hills the other half , if you dont mind logging some miles Michigan has some fantastic high end audio shops with the best speaker brands .

In Rochester there is a Premire Mcintosh audio dealer ( My dealer ) , Premire dealers must cary the entire top of the line Mc gear so they have speakers from $100,000 down to $2,000 , there is another dealer in Rochester who carrys the B & W premire line as well as Krell , both dealerships allways have tons of used gear taken in trade from various well known brands.

In the Detroit area there are a half a dozen high end shops on Woodward alone ranging from Mcintosh & Klipsch to Levinson & Magnepan , Lansing & Grand Rapids are also full of high end shops where you can audition great gear & speakers , once they get to know you some will allow you to demo gear & speakers in your home for a fee , my dealer is the best in the state for in home auditions where if you own your home he'll bring $100 grand speakers to your home ( for a large fee refundable if you buy ) , i didnt drop any business names because its tacky but if interested i can give you some names .

On a side note my son has a pair of very high end high performance Mcintosh XRT-22 line arrays that will be going on the market as soon as i get all 4 woofers & both mids back , i just sent them in to Mcintosh for him to have rebuilt from the basket up with new everything , they have been in our family since we bought all 4 pairs in 1987 for our home theaters & are the solid oak models , no veneer , the XRT-22 is a very special speaker that cost $12,000 new & rivals the performance of $50,000 speakers & bests many of them , he's thinking around $4,000 for the pair which will have all brand new woofers & mids installed , all 44 one inch tweeters in the arrays have been bench tested by our Mc dealer & are in working order & within factory specs , the only reason he is selling them is because he's buying both pair of our JBL K-2's to build a HT in his new home in the Flint area after our new speakers arrive, these are great speakers you could audition as his place in Flint or at our home in Bloomfield Hills once we leave Frankenmuth Nov 1st , sooner if it snows , if you are interested drop me a pm & i'll let you know when they are ready to audition , you can see the outstanding performance of the line arrays by googling XRT-22 specs or clicking on my friends link who designed them .

www.roger-russell.com/xrt22pg.htm

[highfihoney]

Sept 21, 2015 17:14:53 GMT -5 klinemj said:

AudioBear

Welcome! It looks like you have a very good start at your system. Enjoy it as you have it, and beware the upgrade bug...it is not curable. Trust me on that!

Mark

Truer words have never been spoken buddy ,there is allways a new speaker to try just for fun, im just lucky i have a wife who's fascinated with hifi & home theater like i am .

[klinemj]

Lucky man!!! Mine tolerates my addiction,but I tolerate hers also...

Mark

[Deleted]

Sept 21, 2015 11:06:10 GMT -5 AudioBear said:

Hi all, newbie to the lounge here.  I'm from Michigan and have been interested in hifi audio for some years, but it wasn't until recently that I was able to afford anything really nice.  I'm pretty happy with my setup now, choosing speakers has always been the hardest for me as there really isn't anywhere locally to audition things, so it's a lot of reading reviews online and making educated decisions.  I haunt a few forums but this is my first time registering on one.   

Welcome to the NutHouse Lounge  I'm not from Michigan but my sister lives in Adrian.  

"choosing speakers has always been the hardest for me as there really isn't anywhere locally to audition things, so it's a lot of reading reviews online and making educated decisions."

You have reached the most difficult part of choosing speakers.  IMO one must audition the speakers in your own room!  This means you either buy from a dealer who lets you take the speakers home and test them out, with the promise that if you are unhappy you can return them for a full refund, no questions asked.  This can be very difficult to get many dealers to agree with this.  One trick I have used if they resist this is to request that they let you take home at shop closing time a demo pair or open box with the promise you will return it the next morning when they open, with no damage.  If they are serious about making a sale they will let you do this.  You must use a credit card only for your protection (no debit cards).  The second way is to buy online after you have done extensive homework reading all available reviews.  Sometime if the exact model has no reviews you can look for test reviews for the model just below or just above in the series you are considering.  Many times the main difference will be in the bass extension with the mid and treble performance being almost identical, especially if the different size models use the same mid and high drivers.  Many reputable online dealers like Emotiva will give you 30 days return privileges.  Online speakers will generally offer a higher value for the buck.

Listening to a speaker in a dealers room, if you know what to listen for, can give you a fairly good impression of the overall sound quality especially in the vocal range and treble.  However the bass performance can vary greatly depending how they are placed in the room.  Be sure and listen off axis unless you have one sweet spot listening seat as some speaker beam the highs and if you move to the side it varies greatly.  Making a final buying decision for your room based on how the speaker sound in a dealers, friends or used seller's room or from a published review is questionable at best. 

I not sure from your posts whether the PSB Image T's are new or used and if you can return them if you're not happy.  PSB has a fine reputation.  So my post here might just be for your future reference or just for general reference for others reading this thread.  In general I prefer tweeters that are silk dome or the new folded ribbon tweeters.  These to my ears tend to be more smooth, natural and flat in the higher range.  Many of the metal tweeters tend to my ears to be peaked in the higher range (which at first sounds more clear), but somewhat edgy and many times fatiguing over extended listening.  Some of the finest metal tweeters are excellent.  Be sure to audition them over many hours from sources with extended highs.  I own speakers from Emotiva with both silk dome and folded ribbons and they both are ultra smooth, natural and non-fatiguing.

Towers are fine but my experience with bookshelf and a sub are in many ways superior.  However, there is a must condition.  That is the bookshelf model must have the same mid and treble drivers as the tower models.  For example I have the smallest bookshelf in the former Emotiva Reference line.  It has the exact same two mid drivers and the same tweeter as the top of the line tower.  This means that both speakers are nearly identical in sound performance and power handling from the upper bass and higher.  The bookshelf has the advantage of a smaller enclosure for somewhat cleaner sound with less cabinet reflections.  It also requires somewhat less power because the powered sub has its own dedicated amp.  Mated it with an excellent sub makes for a great 2.1 system.  The bookshelf speakers are considerably cheaper but do require stands and a sub (which can be moved around for the best lower bass if necessary).  Unfortunately many brands place lesser quality mid/tweeter drivers in the bookshelf models even in the same series.  So I recommend trying bookshelf/sub setups only if the brand/series meets my above requirements.    

You've got a best bang for the buck preamp, power amp, CD player and turntable, great choices!  I hope you are super happy with your speakers.
 

[vcautokid]

Hi AudioBear, welcome to our forum of music, and movie lovers. You are delving into what has to be the most fun, or vexing part of our hobby. What speaker do I pick? Floor standing, Stand Monitor type? Powered Monitor? Passive? What do I get?

These are just a few basic considerations. Hundreds of loudspeaker to chose from, and many have different requirements to have sound their best for you.

I would consider the basics first. What is the room like that they will be in. In other words the considerations to placement, the acoustic character of the room. Is it live as in almost echo like in sound, or rather dead, much which means dense carpet lot of furniture, not allot of windows etc. The Size of the room, listening area distance etc. come into play also.

Also, of course your audio components. Some play nice with many speakers, some not so much. Amplification and Speaker combinations ultimately are the final word in your system. How much power will be available relative to the speakers being driven, their efficiency and so on. A happy marriage I like to call them. Just some things to contemplate.

[AudioBear]

Sept 21, 2015 17:14:53 GMT -5 klinemj said:

AudioBear

Welcome! It looks like you have a very good start at your system. Enjoy it as you have it, and beware the upgrade bug...it is not curable. Trust me on that!

Mark

I am already learning this the hard way, that's for sure!

[AudioBear]

Sept 21, 2015 17:27:57 GMT -5 highfihoney said:

Sept 21, 2015 11:06:10 GMT -5 AudioBear said:

Hi all, newbie to the lounge here.  I'm from Michigan and have been interested in hifi audio for some years, but it wasn't until recently that I was able to afford anything really nice.  I'm pretty happy with my setup now, choosing speakers has always been the hardest for me as there really isn't anywhere locally to audition things, so it's a lot of reading reviews online and making educated decisions.  I haunt a few forums but this is my first time registering on one.   

Howdy Neighbor , im in Frankenmuth half the year & then in Bloomfield Hills the other half , if you dont mind logging some miles Michigan has some fantastic high end audio shops with the best speaker brands .

In Rochester there is a Premire Mcintosh audio dealer ( My dealer ) , Premire dealers must cary the entire top of the line Mc gear so they have speakers from $100,000 down to $2,000 , there is another dealer in Rochester who carrys the B & W premire line as well as Krell , both dealerships allways have tons of used gear taken in trade from various well known brands.

In the Detroit area there are a half a dozen high end shops on Woodward alone ranging from Mcintosh & Klipsch to Levinson & Magnepan , Lansing & Grand Rapids are also full of high end shops where you can audition great gear & speakers , once they get to know you some will allow you to demo gear & speakers in your home for a fee , my dealer is the best in the state for in home auditions where if you own your home he'll bring $100 grand speakers to your home ( for a large fee refundable if you buy ) , i didnt drop any business names because its tacky but if interested i can give you some names .

On a side note my son has a pair of very high end high performance Mcintosh XRT-22 line arrays that will be going on the market as soon as i get all 4 woofers & both mids back , i just sent them in to Mcintosh for him to have rebuilt from the basket up with new everything , they have been in our family since we bought all 4 pairs in 1987 for our home theaters & are the solid oak models , no veneer , the XRT-22 is a very special speaker that cost $12,000 new & rivals the performance of $50,000 speakers & bests many of them , he's thinking around $4,000 for the pair which will have all brand new woofers & mids installed , all 44 one inch tweeters in the arrays have been bench tested by our Mc dealer & are in working order & within factory specs , the only reason he is selling them is because he's buying both pair of our JBL K-2's to build a HT in his new home in the Flint area after our new speakers arrive, these are great speakers you could audition as his place in Flint or at our home in Bloomfield Hills once we leave Frankenmuth Nov 1st , sooner if it snows , if you are interested drop me a pm & i'll let you know when they are ready to audition , you can see the outstanding performance of the line arrays by googling XRT-22 specs or clicking on my friends link who designed them .

www.roger-russell.com/xrt22pg.htm

Despite my searching I had no idea there were shops around, I could only find one or two and they didn't look like they had too much.  I would really be interested in getting the names of some of them, specifically anything around Lansing as that is not too far of a drive for me.  I really appreciate the heads up on that.    

[AudioBear]

Sept 22, 2015 1:40:04 GMT -5 @chuckienut said:

Sept 21, 2015 11:06:10 GMT -5 AudioBear said:

Hi all, newbie to the lounge here.  I'm from Michigan and have been interested in hifi audio for some years, but it wasn't until recently that I was able to afford anything really nice.  I'm pretty happy with my setup now, choosing speakers has always been the hardest for me as there really isn't anywhere locally to audition things, so it's a lot of reading reviews online and making educated decisions.  I haunt a few forums but this is my first time registering on one.   

Welcome to the NutHouse Lounge  I'm not from Michigan but my sister lives in Adrian.  

"choosing speakers has always been the hardest for me as there really isn't anywhere locally to audition things, so it's a lot of reading reviews online and making educated decisions."

You have reached the most difficult part of choosing speakers.  IMO one must audition the speakers in your own room!  This means you either buy from a dealer who lets you take the speakers home and test them out, with the promise that if you are unhappy you can return them for a full refund, no questions asked.  This can be very difficult to get many dealers to agree with this.  One trick I have used if they resist this is to request that they let you take home at shop closing time a demo pair or open box with the promise you will return it the next morning when they open, with no damage.  If they are serious about making a sale they will let you do this.  You must use a credit card only for your protection (no debit cards).  The second way is to buy online after you have done extensive homework reading all available reviews.  Sometime if the exact model has no reviews you can look for test reviews for the model just below or just above in the series you are considering.  Many times the main difference will be in the bass extension with the mid and treble performance being almost identical, especially if the different size models use the same mid and high drivers.  Many reputable online dealers like Emotiva will give you 30 days return privileges.  Online speakers will generally offer a higher value for the buck.

Listening to a speaker in a dealers room, if you know what to listen for, can give you a fairly good impression of the overall sound quality especially in the vocal range and treble.  However the bass performance can vary greatly depending how they are placed in the room.  Be sure and listen off axis unless you have one sweet spot listening seat as some speaker beam the highs and if you move to the side it varies greatly.  Making a final buying decision for your room based on how the speaker sound in a dealers, friends or used seller's room or from a published review is questionable at best. 

I not sure from your posts whether the PSB Image T's are new or used and if you can return them if you're not happy.  PSB has a fine reputation.  So my post here might just be for your future reference or just for general reference for others reading this thread.  In general I prefer tweeters that are silk dome or the new folded ribbon tweeters.  These to my ears tend to be more smooth, natural and flat in the higher range.  Many of the metal tweeters tend to my ears to be peaked in the higher range (which at first sounds more clear), but somewhat edgy and many times fatiguing over extended listening.  Some of the finest metal tweeters are excellent.  Be sure to audition them over many hours from sources with extended highs.  I own speakers from Emotiva with both silk dome and folded ribbons and they both are ultra smooth, natural and non-fatiguing.

Towers are fine but my experience with bookshelf and a sub are in many ways superior.  However, there is a must condition.  That is the bookshelf model must have the same mid and treble drivers as the tower models.  For example I have the smallest bookshelf in the former Emotiva Reference line.  It has the exact same two mid drivers and the same tweeter as the top of the line tower.  This means that both speakers are nearly identical in sound performance and power handling from the upper bass and higher.  The bookshelf has the advantage of a smaller enclosure for somewhat cleaner sound with less cabinet reflections.  It also requires somewhat less power because the powered sub has its own dedicated amp.  Mated it with an excellent sub makes for a great 2.1 system.  The bookshelf speakers are considerably cheaper but do require stands and a sub (which can be moved around for the best lower bass if necessary).  Unfortunately many brands place lesser quality mid/tweeter drivers in the bookshelf models even in the same series.  So I recommend trying bookshelf/sub setups only if the brand/series meets my above requirements.    

You've got a best bang for the buck preamp, power amp, CD player and turntable, great choices!  I hope you are super happy with your speakers.
 

Thank you for all the tips, it is stuff like that from experienced folks that is always the most helpful.  Originally, I had tried the bookshelf and sub combo but it just wasn't working well for me, something felt off.  After a lot of research I went with the PSB's, and I'm hoping they will be what I am looking for.  They were a demo set from a store, so I got a really good price.  I hounded the guy with questions before deciding.  I can return them within 15 days but of course I would have to cover the return shipping.  I ordered from Pennsylvania so it isn't too far shipping wise, I really tried to plan ahead as I have never spent over $1000 on speakers before, but I also realized that I probably wasn't going to be happy with the sound of anything entry level, but then I also tend to nitpick as well.  I can get incredibly anal about things like that.  I won't settle for anything until it is precisely what I want.  I'm really happy with my pre and amp, my Emotiva equipment has been the best gear I've ever owned.

[AudioBear]

Sept 22, 2015 7:35:50 GMT -5 vcautokid said:

Hi AudioBear, welcome to our forum of music, and movie lovers. You are delving into what has to be the most fun, or vexing part of our hobby. What speaker do I pick? Floor standing, Stand Monitor type? Powered Monitor? Passive? What do I get?

These are just a few basic considerations. Hundreds of loudspeaker to chose from, and many have different requirements to have sound their best for you.

I would consider the basics first. What is the room like that they will be in. In other words the considerations to placement, the acoustic character of the room. Is it live as in almost echo like in sound, or rather dead, much which means dense carpet lot of furniture, not allot of windows etc. The Size of the room, listening area distance etc. come into play also.

Also, of course your audio components. Some play nice with many speakers, some not so much. Amplification and Speaker combinations ultimately are the final word in your system. How much power will be available relative to the speakers being driven, their efficiency and so on. A happy marriage I like to call them. Just some things to contemplate.

It definitely requires a lot of research and learning new things, but that is something that I thrive on.  There are many, many choices, like you said, but that is also a good thing in a way since there are no limitations and ultimately you can tailor the sound to your liking.  I prefer hobbies that always offer something new and give you new things to try.  Eventually, I would like to have a hand at doing some DIY, but that is down the road a bit yet. 

[highfihoney]

Sept 22, 2015 8:45:42 GMT -5 AudioBear said:

Sept 21, 2015 17:27:57 GMT -5 highfihoney said:

Howdy Neighbor , im in Frankenmuth half the year & then in Bloomfield Hills the other half , if you dont mind logging some miles Michigan has some fantastic high end audio shops with the best speaker brands .

In Rochester there is a Premire Mcintosh audio dealer ( My dealer ) , Premire dealers must cary the entire top of the line Mc gear so they have speakers from $100,000 down to $2,000 , there is another dealer in Rochester who carrys the B & W premire line as well as Krell , both dealerships allways have tons of used gear taken in trade from various well known brands.

In the Detroit area there are a half a dozen high end shops on Woodward alone ranging from Mcintosh & Klipsch to Levinson & Magnepan , Lansing & Grand Rapids are also full of high end shops where you can audition great gear & speakers , once they get to know you some will allow you to demo gear & speakers in your home for a fee , my dealer is the best in the state for in home auditions where if you own your home he'll bring $100 grand speakers to your home ( for a large fee refundable if you buy ) , i didnt drop any business names because its tacky but if interested i can give you some names .

On a side note my son has a pair of very high end high performance Mcintosh XRT-22 line arrays that will be going on the market as soon as i get all 4 woofers & both mids back , i just sent them in to Mcintosh for him to have rebuilt from the basket up with new everything , they have been in our family since we bought all 4 pairs in 1987 for our home theaters & are the solid oak models , no veneer , the XRT-22 is a very special speaker that cost $12,000 new & rivals the performance of $50,000 speakers & bests many of them , he's thinking around $4,000 for the pair which will have all brand new woofers & mids installed , all 44 one inch tweeters in the arrays have been bench tested by our Mc dealer & are in working order & within factory specs , the only reason he is selling them is because he's buying both pair of our JBL K-2's to build a HT in his new home in the Flint area after our new speakers arrive, these are great speakers you could audition as his place in Flint or at our home in Bloomfield Hills once we leave Frankenmuth Nov 1st , sooner if it snows , if you are interested drop me a pm & i'll let you know when they are ready to audition , you can see the outstanding performance of the line arrays by googling XRT-22 specs or clicking on my friends link who designed them .

www.roger-russell.com/xrt22pg.htm

Despite my searching I had no idea there were shops around, I could only find one or two and they didn't look like they had too much.  I would really be interested in getting the names of some of them, specifically anything around Lansing as that is not too far of a drive for me.  I really appreciate the heads up on that.    

I'll pop a few Business names here starting with the best hifi shop in the state of Michigan & the dealer who built our home theater at our main house .
thesoundadvantage.com/

If you truly want to hear what the best sounding speakers made sound like start there , call ahead & ask for an appointment with Leo , the shop is open to all but unless Leo is there you wont have access to the premire audio room where he has well several million in totl gear , the B & W Krell dealer is right across the street from Sound Advantage so both are an hour from Davidson , these shops are at the most expensive end of the hifi spectrum but i believe its best to hear the best gear possible before worrying about budget , that way you have a reference point of how far your budget is going .

Next i'll give you a dealer in the Detroit area who carries more moderate priced gear as well as high end gear .
www.almashifi.net/

Almas Hifi is a user friendly shop where you can walk the whole shop & check most of the gear out unsupervised , there are 4 other high end & mid level audio shops within sight of Almas parking lot & one shop 5 doors down .

In Lansing there is Contemporary Audio & The Stereo shoppe , i havent been to either shop in a few yrs but last i was they carried more moderately priced mid level gear & speakers , they only order high end gear & dont stock any .

In Saginaw there is a shop called The Listening Room & they cary high end as well as mid level gear .

In Ann Arbor ive only been to one shop called Paragon Sight & Sound , they cary mid level gear & some low level gear like PBS & Klipsch if memory serves me .

If your fairly new at this dont do the internet direct deal with speakers & dont be in a rush , take the time to visit shops & listen to various speakers at all price points , then use a site called Audiogon.com & use their ad's to go hear private sellers used high end speakers in person & get a pair of true full range high end speakers that dont require subs for not much more than internet direct floor standers & sub combos , if 2 channel is your main interest a sub & tower/bookshelf combo will never equal a good full range speaker system , even one's that are 10 to 20 yrs old .

[Geronimo]

welcome to emotiva audiobear! awesome group with awesome deals at the emporium if you dig for used stuff.

[Geronimo]

Sept 21, 2015 15:15:32 GMT -5 AudioBear said:

Sept 21, 2015 14:38:07 GMT -5 drtrey3 said:

Welcome! You have found a great place to hang out! Heck, you can upgrade your speakers in a magnificent way just trying out the speakers that Boomzilla is done with!

Trey

If I had unlimited space and funds I imagine a room with speakers selectable by mood and genre. 

for me, if sky's the limit for space and funds, i'll probably be having two music rooms. one for jazz and classical music and the other for the rest of the genres. although i'll play those live acoustic gigs on the jazz and classical music room. that room will definitely have a Steinway & Sons baby grand! DREAMER!!!!!

[Boomzilla]

Hi AudioBear -

Welcome to the Lounge. We argue & fuss like the contrary curmudgeons we are, but it's relatively civilized. Don't hesitate to ask stupid questions (or educated ones). You'll get good feedback either way.

Cheers - Boomzilla

[novisnick]

I'm digging your a Avitar!!

[cheapthryl]

Welcome Audiobear, I was born and raised in Grand Rapids but moved south in the late 70's. Anyway, Jim Salk from Salk Sound is in Pontiac. He is a very well regarded speaker designer. Give him a call to audition. The Song Towers are on my list of things I need to do. Happy hunting.
Ron

[AudioBear]

Oct 6, 2015 3:45:25 GMT -5 cheapthryl said:

Welcome Audiobear, I was born and raised in Grand Rapids but moved south in the late 70's. Anyway, Jim Salk from Salk Sound is in Pontiac. He is a very well regarded speaker designer. Give him a call to audition. The Song Towers are on my list of things I need to do. Happy hunting.
Ron

Cool, thanks for the heads up!