XPR-2 vs. SA-250

[sqitis]

Hello All,

I'm interested in hearing about the two compared and what their characteristics are. Looking to voice with XMC-1 & B&W 801 of course & mostly 2ch listening. Let me know what you guys think, feel, know, & hear!

Thanks,
Ben

[leonski]

I see some measured data for the 801 series 2 which indicates it is a reasonable load for any competent amp. No wacky low impedance / high phase angle points to worry about. Reasonable sensitivity at 87db/.
The SA250 should do the job!
Or a pair of the 1L, even.
I'd add the XPR-1 or -2 except they both require a 20 amp service for Max Power.
Chances are? At beneath clipping you'll be hard-pressed to tell the difference. Especially if you do NOT have the 20 amp circuit for the XPR-2.

[DavidR]

I don't think any of the R series amps are left.

I have an SA-250 and love it. I'm considering another to replace a modified Carver M500t MkII.

[leonski]

They will be available 'pre-loved' for several years to come. If they reach 'classic' status? who knows?

I'd be very reluctant to buy a XPR-1 without guaranteed Pallet Shipping. which is $$$$$. The darn thing goes near 100lb. and you'll need TWO OF "EM.

I owned an M400t for decades, from NEW and can safely say my current Parasound A23 (x2, for biamp) is vastly better. Quicker, better dynamics and quiet.
I liked the 'cube' well enough to even get it fixed once, when the power company Zapped it. They paid for the fix.

I suspect the SA-250 is a better amp than your Carver.

[DavidR]

Mar 6, 2016 23:29:32 GMT -5 leonski said:

They will be available 'pre-loved' for several years to come. If they reach 'classic' status? who knows?

I'd be very reluctant to buy a XPR-1 without guaranteed Pallet Shipping. which is $$$$$. The darn thing goes near 100lb. and you'll need TWO OF "EM.

I owned an M400t for decades, from NEW and can safely say my current Parasound A23 (x2, for biamp) is vastly better. Quicker, better dynamics and quiet.
I liked the 'cube' well enough to even get it fixed once, when the power company Zapped it. They paid for the fix.

I suspect the SA-250 is a better amp than your Carver.

The MkII conversion does a lot but you are correct. You also may have helped me finalize my decision.

[leonski]

Enjoy: whatever you end up with:

[garbulky]

If it was me buying and those were my only two choices it would be XPR-2. It's got double the power supply. If I had other choices I would consider two XPA-1 gen 2s. They have some GREAT pirces on them used on the emporium right now.

[DavidR]

Mar 7, 2016 16:26:06 GMT -5 garbulky said:

If it was me buying and those were my only two choices it would be XPR-2. It's got double the power supply. If I had other choices I would consider two XPA-1 gen 2s. They have some GREAT prices on them used on the emporium right now.

It may just come down to what speakers you are driving. I currently don't have room for either of those amps.

I have a pair of Acoustic Research AR91 for my fronts and Bose 901_II for the rears. Right now the Carver M500t MkII (395w rms 8ohm) is driving the 901s and XPA-2 G2 (500w rms 4ohm) on the AR91s. I'd rather have those switched but the M500t sucks on bass with 4 ohm speakers. I think the XPA-2 would do better on the 901s (way more damping factor for tighter bass).

[leonski]

DF is vastly overrated, especially once you get over maybe 50 or so. I'd investigate SETUP before junking out that old Carver.

[DavidR]

Mar 7, 2016 20:19:56 GMT -5 leonski said:

DF is vastly overrated, especially once you get over maybe 50 or so. I'd investigate SETUP before junking out that old Carver.

The M500t DF is only 30.
There's a big following for Carver gear; especially for MkII modded amps. I can get $600 for it. I will  miss those VU meters.

[leonski]

Some speakers, not the 901s, I don't think, do NOT respond well to high DF. When stuff like Klipsch Corner Horns were The Best, or maybe Altec or Bozak, they'd all run WELL on <10 watts. TUBE watts with a DF sometimes dipping below 1.

IOW? Your speaker / amp must match in the DF department. My panels? Work well with anything from the SS or Tube camps.

I'd suggest, if you have a lack of bass, to check SETUP. Starting with relative speaker phase. That's the easy way to do a bass suckout. Than on to physical placement. Swap 'em L/R. Check the Cardas pages on speaker setup. Corner load them or even get 'em closer to another room boundary.
I remember my Cube was NOT common ground between channels. So to run it as a mono bloc / bridged, you connected the speaker from + to + leaving the - terminals out completely.

[DavidR]

IIRC, Bose recommends >40 DF for the series 2. Klipsch are very efficient speakers, AR speakers are not. The M500t is known for not being that good sounding on 4 ohm loads. It is one of the better sounding M series Carver amps along with those 400 Cubes. The 500t is bridged in the same manner. I rotate my AR91s out with my AR90s and run them with the XSP-1 G2 + SA-250 so I know what the sound is like. I've also used the XPA-2 on some series 6 901s that I had used with the M500t. Big difference. However, the series 6 and 2 901s are completely different animals.

[leonski]

Be careful with that DF stuff. Do you include the speaker wires?

I'm not into Bose 901 minutia. Neighbor has some Ancient 301s which I find actually fine for the intended use. They've got 'em UP on a plant shelf and they provide nice, room filling background sound.

Yes, the Klipsch ARE very sensitive. Over 100db 1-watt/1-meter. A good transistor radio driving one will put you out of the room.
But don't forget…….speakers changed around the time of the First solid state. This is the start of the 'Cheap Wattsl and Acoustic Suspension eras. My point was that speaker design materially influences the need for high or low DF.
I do NOT know any of the TS (thiel-small) parameters for the 901s and can't guess at the real 'damping' needed by those guys.

I remember LUSTING after AR3a or even the 'lesser' AR2ax speakers at the 'dawn' of the 'suspension era.

Any way to experiment with placement before writing that Carver off?