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Post by Uncle Taiji on Oct 24, 2015 14:51:32 GMT -5
I suppose it qualifies as a certain sort of audio-porn to have just purchased six of the closeout XPA-1L amps to replace the undistinguished amps in my existing active-filtered, tri-amped stereo system. Yet when you're almost age 70 and your significant other tells you that you're not spending enough money on her and she dumps you, then it is 'time' to kick prudence out-the-door and go for the fantasy. Hoping for the "Soylent Green" scenario where the elderly get eaten by the younger.
What I'm looking for is advice and guidance on how to make/acquire a sequencing device to apply the 12V turn-on signal to the amps with an interval delay between each amp being turned on.
The amps are to be 'fed' from dedicated 10G A/C wiring direct to the service box, on a 30A circuit breaker. Yet turning on six XPA-1L amps simultaneously, each with its 90,000 uF of capacitance, seems imprudent. Manual control is always an option, but it would be nice to have an automatic sequencing 12V system.
And yes, with the nominal 200W dissipation for each amp in the Class A mode, I'm intending on using the system to heat my living room this winter ... come next summer there might be a problem. Here in Long Beach, California last year was the hottest on record. Six blistering heat waves over 100F last year, some lasting more than a week long. But I'm hoping to stay 'Class A' warm this winter with the nominal 1200W of 'heating' in the room.
... something about Nero fiddling while Rome burned.
John |
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Post by audiosyndrome on Oct 24, 2015 16:13:35 GMT -5
John- I don't know if you have an XMC but if you do, use one trigger out to daisy chain three of the amps. Use a second trigger out to daisy chain the other three amps (or use three of the triggers and daisy chain two amps on each trigger). The amps on each chain will go on sequentially although the two chains can overlap somewhat.
Russ
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Post by cheapthryl on Oct 24, 2015 16:46:46 GMT -5
when you're almost age 70 and your significant other tells you that you're not spending enough money on her and she dumps you, then it is 'time' to kick prudence out-the-door and go for the fantasy. I LOVE THIS !!! still laughing. And as for the room heaters in the summer, just flip the switch to run a/b full time. They will burn with a little less heat. WELCOME ABOARD
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Post by Uncle Taiji on Oct 24, 2015 16:58:06 GMT -5
John- I don't know if you have an XMC but if you do, use one trigger out to daisy chain three of the amps. Use a second trigger out to daisy chain the other three amps (or use three of the triggers and daisy chain two amps on each trigger). The amps on each chain will go on sequentially although the two chains can overlap somewhat. Russ Thank you Russ for your reply,
I'd thought of that ... I have the XPS-1 pre-amp with its 12V trigger output.
But I have no clue as to any delay time built into the 'trigger out' of the amps. I'd very much like to avoid having 540,000uF of capacitance come 'online' all at once. It seems that without any built-in delay that the cascade of the six amp's 'trigger out/trigger in' would bring all six amps online in a very close approximation to 'all at once.'
I fear that might even blow the 30A circuit breaker under those circumstances. Some time delay between turn-ons will be required methinks?
John
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Post by Uncle Taiji on Oct 24, 2015 17:05:46 GMT -5
when you're almost age 70 and your significant other tells you that you're not spending enough money on her and she dumps you, then it is 'time' to kick prudence out-the-door and go for the fantasy. I LOVE THIS !!! still laughing. And as for the room heaters in the summer, just flip the switch to run a/b full time. They will burn with a little less heat. WELCOME ABOARD
Yes Cheapthryl,
A while back I'd sent out an extended email series to 'interested parties' titled "Spending Holly's Face Lift Money" - it went over real big as you might imagine. These amps represent a condition well past the Face Lift Money stage.
Without home A/C indoor temperatures broke 90F on a number of occasions this past summer/fall. Even with the amps in the 'A/B' mode, at what, a nominal 70W dissipation per amp, that's going to be a >420W 'heater' in a very hot room. I'm exploring fan cooling augmentation for the amps, thinking that I'll have the winter to get matters worked out.
Thank you for your welcome. These amps are my 4th through 10th Emotiva purchases.
John
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Oct 24, 2015 17:08:12 GMT -5
John,
First, just try switching on all amps in an 'all at once' manner. See if that does trip the circuit breaker. That'll at least confirm that you have a problem that warrants solving. Otherwise it may not matter.
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DYohn
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Posts: 18,485
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Post by DYohn on Oct 24, 2015 17:29:51 GMT -5
A couple of these could help...  |
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Post by Uncle Taiji on Oct 24, 2015 17:54:16 GMT -5
A couple of these could help... Thanks Dyohn,
Amps numbers 3-6 don't arrive until Tuesday and Wednesday next week. So I'll have to wait for Hemster's 'Circuit Breaker Blowing Test' until then or later. There are new equipment racks on the way, supposedly by the end of the week. So it may be prudent to wait until I can get all the amps conveniently placed in two side-by-side racks. Hoping the Magic Smoke stays inside each amp upon testing.
The ET-3 could prove convenient; but, it doesn't advertise any delay time between activating its outputs. It would simplify setup for the Hemster Circuit Breaker Blowing Test though. It is clear that two of the three amps intended for each rack could be daisy-chained from the third amp's 12V trigger output - or if close enough, 5 amps could be daisy-chained from the sixth amp's trigger output.
I'll report results in the fullness of time. I have located several DIY projects and/or kits online in the meantime which would provide time delay for 12V outputs. I'd rather buy something inexpensive than build it myself.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch ....
John
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Post by Loop 7 on Oct 24, 2015 17:56:14 GMT -5
You need to turn them because you need warming plates for a buffet?
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Post by jlafrenz on Oct 24, 2015 18:50:09 GMT -5
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Post by lhracing on Oct 24, 2015 19:32:51 GMT -5
I only have 2 in a Stereo system, they are daisy chained and they power up sequentially. I am sure that if you had 2 daisy chains with 3 amps in each the 120v line circuit would only see 2 at a time power up.
By the way they are sweet amps, I love mine....ENJOY.
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Post by Uncle Taiji on Oct 24, 2015 19:38:54 GMT -5
Thanks jlanfrez,
The SurgeX line doesn't really qualify as 'low cost' with the 9 outlet version, via a quite google search, costing between $695 and $859. Additionally, since the 12V On/Off trigger in and out lines are already built-in to the amps, it seems a shame to waste their functionality.
I found this $20 sequencer kit online via a ham radio website: www.eham.net/reviews/detail/7489
Not sure yet whether it is exactly what is needed, but I'm going to send an email to its designer (referenced in the sales review) and ask him. Of course us DIYers (or I used to be) know that 'the box' to put the PC board in is usually the hardest part of any project.
Elliot Sound Products DIY website has this: sound.westhost.com/project144.htm which is precisely what is needed but doesn't seem to be available as a full-kit.
Sometimes easy solutions are not to be found; but, I'd welcome further information on 'inexpensive' solutions (having shot my wad on the amps and the new racks for the amps).
Yours in prudence, John
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Post by vcautokid on Oct 24, 2015 19:40:03 GMT -5
If memory serves me, most especially recent Emotiva Amplifiers are equipped with "in rush" protection, meaning they will not suck your current out of your wall when powered on. That is at least what I understood, so there should be no worries.
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Post by Gary Cook on Oct 24, 2015 19:41:33 GMT -5
I have 2 x XPA-1L's, an XPA-100 and an XPA-5 and they turn on daisy chain from the UMC-200, there is more than sufficient delay between each to avoid circuit breaker tripping.
Cheers
Gary
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Post by Uncle Taiji on Oct 24, 2015 19:45:00 GMT -5
I only have 2 in a Stereo system, they are daisy chained and they power up sequentially. I am sure that if you had 2 daisy chains with 3 amps in each the 120v line circuit would only see 2 at a time power up. By the way they are sweet amps, I love mine....ENJOY. A really big thank you lhracing,
This is exactly the in-use information I was hoping to elicit.
To extrapolate from what you've written is sounds as if the amp you first power up via the power (standby) switch delays raising its 12V Trigger Out line for some duration. Great news! I could see daisy-chaining all six amps given your experience. And I'm ever so glad for your 'sweet' review. My gamble has been large, as there is NO Return on the close-out amps.
John
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Post by garbulky on Oct 24, 2015 19:59:43 GMT -5
BTW the XPA-1 L's have a slow rush turn on to prevent large drains on the power supply. Though I do agree I don't know how all six turning on at once will work.
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Post by Gary Cook on Oct 24, 2015 20:14:59 GMT -5
BTW the XPA-1 L's have a slow rush turn on to prevent large drains on the power supply. Though I do agree I don't know how all six turning on at once will work. Wit daisy chained triggers they don't turn on all at once, hang on and I'll go and time them....................grab iPhone, select stopwatch. After turning on the UMC-200; 1. the XPA-100 turns onto standby at around 2 seconds 2. the first XPA-1L turns onto standby 1 second later 3. the XPA-100 turns on fully 1 second later 4. the second XPA-1L turns onto standby 1 second later 5. the first XPA-1L turns on fully 1 second later 6. the XPA-5 turns onto standby 1 second later 7. the second XPA-1L turns on fully 1 second later 8. the XPA-5 turns on fully 1 second later Total time for turn on fully of all amplifiers is slightly less than 10 seconds i.e., sound comes out of all speakers. Cheers Gary |
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Post by novisnick on Oct 24, 2015 20:25:07 GMT -5
 My experience when trying this feat!
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Post by jasong7319 on Oct 24, 2015 22:09:29 GMT -5
Interesting. I have the UMC-200 also daisy chained to 3 UPA-1's, UPA-2 and a XPA-200. They seem to all attempt to power on, go off, and then come on fully one and stay on the second time around. I'm going to try daisy chaining 2 of the UPA-1's to the 2nd trigger and see if the problem still occurs. I never had this issue when it was just powering on the XPA-200 and UPA-2. Once I had all 5 amps chained the problem presented itself.
Any advice of why this is perhaps happening would kindly be appreciated.
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Post by wizardofoz on Oct 24, 2015 22:21:16 GMT -5
The Emotiva TR-3 is NOT what you want, as all 3 outputs trigger simultaneously. Just daisy chain the lot of one output on the xsp-1 and you will be fine. The amps all have a small delay as the 12v output is only enabled after the trigger input is activated, so they will cascade on nicely. I have done this for many years with multiple mono setups with my upa-1's and xpa-1's
The TR-3 is better for adding trigger to things like projectors and bluray players etc when you only have one ht trigger available or your devices have no trigger in and out option. Some older Emotiva amps didn't have trigger out but I think all the newer do. I can't confirm the timing on the older amps but maybe my power didn't trip anyway. I only have 32A 240V for the whole house!!!
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