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Post by gr8erimage on Dec 11, 2015 12:11:09 GMT -5
Emotiva announced a new line of Class-D amps using ICEpower. emotiva.com/whats-new/audio-gets-immersive-emotiva-re-thinks-contemporary-high-end-market-ces-2016-introductionI'm trying to gather more information on the specific series of ICE used ( ASC, ASX, ASP, ICEtheater). I'm planning a purchase in the next 1-2months and I'm torn between purchasing the XPA-5 gen2 or taking the leap into class-d. I'm afraid it could be the last chance to purchase Emotiva class-AB multi-channel amps for under $1k. I would like to hear others thoughts, plans, or opinions on the matter. $799 for an XPA-5 gen2 with 200watts x 5 $999 for an EDA-7 125watts x 7 Thanks, Gr8erimage |
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Post by dougport on Dec 11, 2015 12:32:25 GMT -5
You're off on the XPA-5, it's 200 watts per channel at 8 ohms
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Post by gr8erimage on Dec 11, 2015 12:37:17 GMT -5
Thanks for catching that. Fixed.
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Post by garbulky on Dec 11, 2015 13:04:33 GMT -5
I think you answered your own question.  |
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Post by brubacca on Dec 11, 2015 13:24:13 GMT -5
Personally i would get the XPA-5. It is a known commodity and known to sound good. A little exra power is always a good thing.
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Dec 11, 2015 14:12:41 GMT -5
Your question is hard to answer because we are trying to compare a very well known amp (which many feel is the best deal on a 5 channel amp around and is an amazing amp) to an unknown quantity.
The only known is that if size/weight of an xpa-5 is an issue, the new series would be better. Other than thàt...nothing is certain.
Mark
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2015 14:16:15 GMT -5
I really enjoy Emotiva products lets just hope they don't take the same road as Carver, Definitive Technology, Sunfire, BSR et al.. But if they do...We can all say "remember when" and "I was there". Let's hope we don't have to include Dan Laufman in the same [remember when] conversations like we do when we talk about (Bob) Carver Amps, (Sandy Gross) Definitive Technology and (Andrew Jones) TAD.
If Economic expansion is the goal for the "new" Emotiva their first priority should be their "retail partners" they (at least the ones here in Florida) are not a good first foot forward into Brick and Mortar retail...They have no inventory and worse have no idea how to promote and "sell" the attributes of Emotiva Gear Hell one didn't even know how to pronounce Emotiva.
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Post by gr8erimage on Dec 11, 2015 16:17:48 GMT -5
I think I would rather live with the cons of the XPA-5 (size/consumption/heat) than chance it on the only pros of the EDA-7 (size/consumption/heat).
Unless Emotiva can somehow make their class-D sound better than their XPA line and turn the audio world upside down.
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Dec 11, 2015 16:45:46 GMT -5
I think I would rather live with the cons of the XPA-5 (size/consumption/heat) than chance it on the only pros of the EDA-7 (size/consumption/heat). Unless Emotiva can somehow make their class-D sound better than their XPA line and turn the audio world upside down. This is a possibility, but I think the v3 xpa's will stay a step ahead thanks to the borrowing of XPR technology for them. Mark |
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Post by tchaik on Dec 11, 2015 17:35:15 GMT -5
I think I would rather live with the cons of the XPA-5 (size/consumption/heat) than chance it on the only pros of the EDA-7 (size/consumption/heat). Unless Emotiva can somehow make their class-D sound better than their XPA line and turn the audio world upside down. This is a possibility, but I think the v3 xpa's will stay a step ahead thanks to the borrowing of XPR technology for them. Mark agreed…….. |
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Post by etc6849 on Dec 16, 2015 8:59:38 GMT -5
Sandy Gross has no engineering background, so I really wouldn't include him in the same sentence as Bob Carver and Andrew Jones. He is a good business man though! He is one of those folks who thinks horns are honky, etc... It is clear he doesn't know what he is talking about and lacks any scientific education or real knowledge with statements like this. I really enjoy Emotiva products lets just hope they don't take the same road as Carver, Definitive Technology, Sunfire, BSR et al.. But if they do...We can all say "remember when" and "I was there". Let's hope we don't have to include Dan Laufman in the same [remember when] conversations like we do when we talk about (Bob) Carver Amps, (Sandy Gross) Definitive Technology and (Andrew Jones) TAD. If Economic expansion is the goal for the "new" Emotiva their first priority should be their "retail partners" they (at least the ones here in Florida) are not a good first foot forward into Brick and Mortar retail...They have no inventory and worse have no idea how to promote and "sell" the attributes of Emotiva Gear Hell one didn't even know how to pronounce Emotiva. |
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Post by leonski on Dec 17, 2015 16:07:22 GMT -5
The EDA-7 is not a COMPLETELY unknown quantity.
MANY amp makers use ICE modules. The 7 channel Icetheater amp is a SINGLE SMPS with 7 amps on a SINGLE board. Perfect for HT stuff with 120x7 at 1khz all channels driven.
Full bandwidth power for ALL SEVEN at once is maybe 3db lower.
Now, that being said, you ARE after all dealing with an ICE amp. It is going to sound much like OTHER ICE amps. Nothing radically different unless the INPUT and switching / preamp circuitry is
really messed up. Or you are driving into distortion.
For speakers of 88 to 90 db sensitivity and ABOVE, in a reasonable space, I don't see the hangup. Unless you like it REAL loud.
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Post by nickwin on Dec 23, 2015 15:37:58 GMT -5
Emotiva announced a new line of Class-D amps using ICEpower. emotiva.com/whats-new/audio-gets-immersive-emotiva-re-thinks-contemporary-high-end-market-ces-2016-introductionI'm trying to gather more information on the specific series of ICE used ( ASC, ASX, ASP, ICEtheater). I'm planning a purchase in the next 1-2months and I'm torn between purchasing the XPA-5 gen2 or taking the leap into class-d. I'm afraid it could be the last chance to purchase Emotiva class-AB multi-channel amps for under $1k. I would like to hear others thoughts, plans, or opinions on the matter. $799 for an XPA-5 gen2 with 200watts x 5 $999 for an EDA-7 125watts x 7 Thanks, Gr8erimage I think that very well might be the case. Keep in mind the the advantage(s) of class D is not sound quality (or reliability of that matter), its efficiency, weight/size and cost. If weight and current draw are not big considerations for you my vote would be XPA5. Class A and A/B designs with toriodal's have certainly passed the test of time. Happy Holidays Nick |
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Post by nickwin on Dec 23, 2015 15:43:14 GMT -5
I think I would rather live with the cons of the XPA-5 (size/consumption/heat) than chance it on the only pros of the EDA-7 (size/consumption/heat). Unless Emotiva can somehow make their class-D sound better than their XPA line and turn the audio world upside down. This is a possibility, but I think the v3 xpa's will stay a step ahead thanks to the borrowing of XPR technology for them. Mark Which technology? Yes they are class H like the XPRs which should improve efficiency over the gen 1 and 2s. This makes sense for the huge XPRs because otherwise they would have issues tripping even 20a breakers. That said has anyone had any problems with XPA gen 1 & 2s tripping breakers? Unlike the XPRs, the XPA gen 3s use SMPS's which IMHO are a step backwards in terms of performance compared to linear power supplies. |
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Post by vneal on Dec 23, 2015 15:51:42 GMT -5
Go for the Emotiva
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Post by leonski on Dec 23, 2015 16:01:15 GMT -5
Linear VS SMPS is one of those 'third rail' topics. However, one thing IS certain. It would appear that SMPS does not have the dynamic power capability of a good linear. I also would guarantee that the design of a GOOD SMPS is more difficult with problems possible with HF hash distributed thru the audio band being one of several 'possibles'. People ALSO simply parrot the 'high efficiency' claim. This is TRUE, but at full power where Plug to Speaker efficiencies can easily exceed 80%. (W/SMPS) The output section ALONE can be in the 90s since it is either ON or OFF and the On-Resistance of the devices used is very small. This is one way to get (besides NFB) a good damping factor. At 'realistic' powers, the efficiency of the entire amp from plug to speaker is really not much better than a well executed A/B design. www.ecnmag.com/article/2010/01/exploding-efficiency-myth-class-d-amplifiersMore complex solutions CAN yield higher efficiency at realistic power levels, but cost goes up fairly quickly and possible problems multiply. It is simply a guess on my part, but bringing in an EMOTIVA amp with a sophisticated SMPS AND using non-PS included modules from B&O would be quite a challenge at prices Emotiva Customers would be willing to pay. Jeff Roland, who makes some wacky expensive 'd' amps would have NO such problem. And I believe he uses N-Core from Hypex. If I was an HT kind of guy, I'd for sure look at the XPA-5 which for the 800$ 'ask' is verging on 'bargain'. Even using 4 of the 5 channels to BiAmp a stereo pair of speakers would be a good use of such an amp. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Dec 23, 2015 16:28:14 GMT -5
FWIW, Emotiva says the gen 3 are even lower noise/hum that the gen 2. This article is a subject of a thread in the amplifiers section: Audioholics ReviewMark |
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Post by leonski on Dec 23, 2015 17:01:28 GMT -5
I would SUSPECT that the 'downside' to a highly regulated PS is that of POOR dynamic power. Headroom for those in Peoria.
Don't forget that 'class 'H'' is NOT an amplifier design but rather deals with Power Supply. It is, I think several RAILS which are at ever higher voltages. 2 rails is the minimum while 3 rails might provide some benefit at the cost of additional complexity.
The highest voltage(s) of the PS remain 'untouched' until demand for power dictates.
The Gen3 amp IS just a conventional A/B design which has been optimized and given a new front-end PS in the form of a railed switcher. The OUTPUT stage will STILL be the main drive on a measure of plug-to-speaker efficiency. the only number that counts.
This is true since the PS or the AMP are each USELESS without the other. I'd be surprised at ANY efficiency OVER about 60% at full power. I wouldn't mind being wrong, but would ALSO like to see the full disclosure of efficiency VS power @3db increments starting at 1 watt.
My ancient Carver Cube had a 25v and a 50v rail. But a wacky PS design. I think the OUTLAW M-2200 monobloc is also such a design, but I don't see the reference at a casual glance at the paperwork.
A clue is what was said in one of the threads about SHIPPING DAMAGE of the Big MONOBLOC amps. Lighter is better from that aspect AND you don't have to get a couple friends over to help move a pair of amps, one of which would give a normal person a Hernia.
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Post by etc6849 on Dec 27, 2015 12:07:49 GMT -5
Unfortunately, most of the Emotiva buyers are bargain hunters who think they'll get the same sound out of a 7 channel amp versus the XPR-1 and XPR-2's. I too have high doubts these switching power supplies can put out the power the XPR-1's power supply is capable of. These XPR-1's and an XMC-1 made my setup sound fabulous. Hands down, it's the best setup I've ever heard. It's interesting Emotiva is going the same route for the XPA as what ATI does for their fully differential multi-channel amps. My guess is an ATI AT3007 or AT2007 is better as it has dual toroidal transformers that are wound at their facility in CA. Of course, ATI is at a different price point, but used units can be picked up for much much less, are made in the US too, etc... I've bought several XPR's from Emotiva, and one was damaged, but Cathy took great care of me, probably at the expense of losing whatever margin they had on the deal. A clue is what was said in one of the threads about SHIPPING DAMAGE of the Big MONOBLOC amps. Lighter is better from that aspect AND you don't have to get a couple friends over to help move a pair of amps, one of which would give a normal person a Hernia. |
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Post by leonski on Dec 27, 2015 13:28:17 GMT -5
ATI HeadQuarters is up in Montebello, the SemiValley of the South.
Do they assemble modules or do they use an original design?
One more serious point, however. Does Emotiva 'voice' the amps during testing and preproduction to a 'house' sound? To that extent, I'd say that ALL EMO or Most, anyway, when run under clipping should pretty much
sound the same.
The same has been said about Magnepan, of which I'm an owner for 35 years or more. When you start with the 'baby' panel, the MMG and move UPLine, what you get is MORE. The New .7 is a BIG taste of the 1.7 at maybe a 35% or 40% reduction in cost.
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