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Post by 2muchht on Dec 29, 2015 21:45:24 GMT -5
PLEASE! Let’s try to keep this thread about the HDMI board’s specs and capabilities. Whether you think that is a bargain or over-priced there are only two real sides to that. On is that Dan can and apparently will charge what he thinks is the right price. At the end of the day, whether he makes money, loses money or just breaks even on it, that’s for him to decide. The other is “If you need it/want it/think it’s worth the money, buy it. If not, well, don’t. Can we PLEASE talk about the specs and other NON-PRICE aspects of this.
That said: We now know all too painfully well that “the” board will have one HDMI 2.0 input with HDCP 2.2 and one matching output. That’s what it is for better or worse.
However, equally important, is what we still do NOT know.
? Are the “before the port processor” and “after the port processor” chips simply going around the ADI chip on the existing PCB. If that is the case, then it will be limited to 300MHz, some of us may have a problem with it. Yes, you can certify for HDMI 2.0 at 300MHz, but that will ONLY allow a maximum of 2160p/60fps/4:2:0/8-bit signals. Is the new board capable of more than what the ADI chip delivers? Why is that important?
* Current digital cinema cameras are more than capable of capturing RAW image files that may be graded out at 10-bit or 12-bit color. As we see many more 10-bit capable panels this coming year don’t you think that the studios will create content to take advantage or that?
* Dolby Vision will allow 12-bit color. Anything with 10-bit or 12-bit color at 60fps requires 600MHz capability.
* There is a push for 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 color sampling in some places. That, too, requires 600 MHz, even at 8-bit color.
* Yes, film transfers to 4K and some of the current content shot on 4K (House of Cards, Black List, Transparency and more – all available NOW via various streaming services) are shot at 30fps or “fractional” frame rates for the “film look” some directors and DP’s prefer. OTOH, sports such as the Olympics and similar will want to take advantage of 60fps and one way or another, that content will be available in Europe (probably first) and North America MUCH sooner than later.[/li]
? May we please have an answer about HDMI 2.0a availability. HDR will be a HUGE draw for “4K/UHD” displays this year. For three of the four HDR schemes, namely the generic HDR-10, Philips HRD and Technicolor CRI require it. HDR-10 is shaping up to be the “lowest common denominator” with some brands (Samsung and others) already offering it NOW). Without the “2.0a” version of HDMI, you may well miss out on an aspect of “UHD” that may be more critical for the viewer than the resolution, itself.
If I’ve missed anything, please do correct me. But, again, PLEASE, let’s leave the issue of the board’s cost and all that has come out of that to be discussed elsewhere. Haven’t we had MORE than enough of that discussion? I surely have, and clearly Dan has, as well to the point where we’re just repeating the same thing.
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Post by JNieves on Dec 29, 2015 22:52:15 GMT -5
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Dec 30, 2015 7:34:26 GMT -5
Glad we have people far smarter than me here to ask these questions...it helps me learn more as I read the responses. Net, on this one I will sort here and watch for answers to learn!
Mark
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Dec 30, 2015 8:36:27 GMT -5
I'm going to sound like a conspiracy nut but there will always be a new HDMI standard around the corner. lets look at some history: HDMI 1.0 was released December 9, 2002 HDMI 1.1 was released on May 20, 2004 HDMI 1.2 was released August 8, 2005 HDMI 1.2a was released on December 14, 2005 HDMI 1.3 was released June 22, 2006 HDMI 1.3a was released on November 10, 2006 HDMI 1.3b was released on March 26, 2007 HDMI 1.3b1 was released on November 9, 2007 HDMI 1.3c was released on August 25, 2008 HDMI 1.4 was released on May 28, 2009 HDMI 1.4a was released on March 4, 2010 HDMI 1.4b was released on October 11, 2011 HDMI 2.0 was released on September 4, 2013 HDMI 2.0a was released on April 8, 2015 So based on the average life span of the HDMI spec we should see another one announced by Q4 2016. Sound like OEM product life cycles (who BTW make up the HDMI forum) to you?  So whatever we pick today is virtually guarantied to be "obsolete" in a year. That said a small OEM needs to design a product that will meet the current needs of its target audience. |
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Post by cwt on Dec 30, 2015 11:26:10 GMT -5
They really should nail down some specs for HDR as theres too many proprietary ones atm . I believe hdr10 is in the uhd bluray specs but we dont want a situation like hd dvd vs bluray again  4k.com/news/the-uhd-alliance-is-setting-the-high-quality-specs-for-the-future-of-4k-uhd-in-a-ces-2016-unveiling-11366/Perhaps because of led tvs much higher nit levels [compared to projectors] with their localised multizone backlighting level dimming it should be the best by concensus it seems ie dolby vision . Its no coincidence that the high lumen output and great on/off contrast of this years jvc's have attracted those who see those attributes helping HDR compared to other technologies I personally will be happy with hdmi2.0a for quite a while as I cant see needing better than 4k - 60p gets rid of 24p judder ; 10bit gives a great colour gamut and its capable of handling the object codecs - as is bluray of course . I dont sit close enough to want 8k  |
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Post by copperpipe on Dec 30, 2015 12:06:18 GMT -5
So whatever we pick today is virtually guarantied to be "obsolete" in a year. Just a little nitpick, pet peeve of mine: I wish you guys would stop using "obsolete" (and I realize you did you use quotes around it), because that word doesn't mean what you think it means in that context. I like Keith's definition, "no longer performs it's intended function", or directly from google: "no longer produced or used; out of date". 5.1 channel is not yet obsolete. VCR's, yes. Beta, yes. Cassette tapes, yes. But just because something new comes out, that doesn't immediately obsolete everything that comes out before it. And as a bonus, if you stop thinking in terms of obsolescence and more in terms of "latest and greatest designed to separate you from your cash", you may enjoy your own system a little longer. Obsolete is often hyperbole, a term that is highly abused, and only exaggerates something that doesn't need to be exaggerated. I'll get off my soap box now... |
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Post by donnbauer on Dec 30, 2015 12:24:22 GMT -5
It's important to remember that at most large electronics companies the marketing department is several orders of magnitudes larger than the R&D department. The tail often wages the dog when it comes to "new tech". The cycle of bringing new products to market simply to have "new products" is well entrenched and designed to part fools from their money.
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Post by copperpipe on Dec 30, 2015 12:32:37 GMT -5
It's important to remember that at most large electronics companies the marketing department is several orders of magnitudes larger than the R&D department. The tail often wages the dog when it comes to "new tech". The cycle of bringing new products to market simply to have "new products" is well entrenched and designed to part fools from their money. Agreed, though I might not use the word "fools"  Just think of the 3d glasses thing, sure paid off to wait that one out! |
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Dec 30, 2015 12:41:10 GMT -5
So whatever we pick today is virtually guarantied to be "obsolete" in a year. Just a little nitpick, pet peeve of mine: I wish you guys would stop using "obsolete" (and I realize you did you use quotes around it), because that word doesn't mean what you think it means in that context. I like Keith's definition, "no longer performs it's intended function", or directly from google: "no longer produced or used; out of date". 5.1 channel is not yet obsolete. VCR's, yes. Beta, yes. Cassette tapes, yes. But just because something new comes out, that doesn't immediately obsolete everything that comes out before it. And as a bonus, if you stop thinking in terms of obsolescence and more in terms of "latest and greatest designed to separate you from your cash", you may enjoy your own system a little longer. Obsolete is often hyperbole, a term that is highly abused, and only exaggerates something that doesn't need to be exaggerated. I'll get off my soap box now... I fully agree and you caught my use of quotes correctly. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Dec 30, 2015 12:56:44 GMT -5
HDMI 1.0 was released December 9, 2002 HDMI 1.1 was released on May 20, 2004 HDMI 1.2 was released August 8, 2005 HDMI 1.2a was released on December 14, 2005 HDMI 1.3 was released June 22, 2006 HDMI 1.3a was released on November 10, 2006 HDMI 1.3b was released on March 26, 2007 HDMI 1.3b1 was released on November 9, 2007 HDMI 1.3c was released on August 25, 2008 HDMI 1.4 was released on May 28, 2009 HDMI 1.4a was released on March 4, 2010 HDMI 1.4b was released on October 11, 2011 HDMI 2.0 was released on September 4, 2013 HDMI 2.0a was released on April 8, 2015 This is scary...not having followed it myself, I was unaware of the number and frequency of changes. This convinces me of one thing...if I am not in a hurry for better video quality, then it behooves me to wait longer for HDMI 2/hdcp 2.2! And, really...I am not in a hurry. Mark |
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Post by wizardofoz on Dec 30, 2015 13:16:17 GMT -5
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 30, 2015 14:18:26 GMT -5
"Full service by 2020", I'll have had at least 1 maybe 2 processor updates by then. That being the UMC-200 replacement and then possibly its replacement, or I might skip the first one if the update isn't enticing enough. For the 3 X UMC-200's I will have spent less than 1 X XMC-1 let alone it's update boards. The constantly moving standards and their unpredictability is the main (but not the only) reason why I chose not to move to the premium processor (ie; currently XMC-1) line. In regards to this board update, if I had an XMC-1 I personally wouldn't be taking it. I currently have no need for 4K at 60 fps and I have only limited access to minimal content at 4K 30 fps that the current board can handle. I have 3 sources, BD player, cable box and ATV4. Oppo don't have a player and won't for another year it seems. The thought of our (monopoly) cable / satellite service providing 4K any time soon is ridiculous, look up "Foxtel IQ3" if you want a recent example of their incompetence in regards to technology updates. As far as streaming goes I have the speed (100 Mbps +) for 4K but once again I am stuck with a monopoly supplier (Telstra / NBN) and that means pricing structures on volume that would make your nose bleed. As a result I'd be waiting until the multiple HDMI 2.0 / HDCP 2.2 board became available, an option suggested by Dan. By then I might have at least a new Oppo to provide the 4K content. The other 2 sources I don't hold out much hope for before 2020, but at least I'll be ready if some miracle happens. Happy New Year Gary |
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Post by cwt on Dec 31, 2015 2:19:31 GMT -5
Japan is already into 8k broadcast plans for 2016 testing Meanwhile back in Aus we are on the cusp of mpeg4 for our 1080i channels ; woo hoo  |
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Post by wizardofoz on Dec 31, 2015 13:01:08 GMT -5
Just sayin' despite some wanting it now and others on the fence it's starting to appear here and there already, nothing for me that's going to manage jumping on the next upgrade but for some it might make a difference
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marko
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Post by marko on Dec 31, 2015 19:04:06 GMT -5
I feel lucky I'm not cursed with the upgrade bug too often. This is a picture of the pre pro ive been using since 1999! Along with the Amp which I'm still using With My New XMC-1. Thank you Emotive for a great product. The XMC-1's pricing allowed me to upgrade earlier than expected at the high level of performance I wanted.  |
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Post by richardrc on Jan 1, 2016 6:40:23 GMT -5
Even the Kiwis got that one right first go! Edit for our American friends: The vast majority of our free to air programming is in SD (576 lines) due to legislation. Makes the sale of 4K TVs a joke since we haven't caught up with the old standard. That coupled with our pathetically slow internet and data caps will ensure that the vast majority will never watch in higher resolutions. Long live blurry TV. Japan is already into 8k broadcast plans for 2016 testing Meanwhile back in Aus we are on the cusp of mpeg4 for our 1080i channels ; woo hoo |
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Post by 2muchht on Jan 1, 2016 19:02:48 GMT -5
RE: HDMI Changes
Let's not completely put down the changes to HDMI. HDMI changes not for the sake of change itself to make our collective lives more problematic. Rather, the advancements do, perhaps at the price of an upgrade, bring us new capabilities made possible by advancements elsewhere in the industry. Sure, they could have stayed with versions longer, but then you'd be unable to do things such as SACD, ARC, CEC, 4K and similar. Change isn't always easy, and there is often a price to pay.
Similarly, can you fault content owners for wanting to have a secure means of protecting their investment in programming? The incredible investments required to produce movies, TV and music have to be paid back though some measure of content control. That's what HDCP is all about. Is it sometimes a pain? YOU BET. Is it, something similar required to keep the business model moving? Unfortunately, yes. Could it work better? Of course. Think about it: Do you have a lock (or two) on the doors to your home, office, factory or other building? When the locks are compromised do you change them? I hope so.
I'm not shilling for either HDMI or HDCP, but we can't ignore that they are needed and sometimes need to be updated. That's just how life is. Both we, as consumers, and suppliers such as the chip companies, software guardians, and, yes, equipment brands, have to keep up with the changes. No way around it, and sometimes paying for it as long as what we pay for is up to date and reasonably prices. If not, stick with the old technology if it works for you.
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Just think of the 3d glasses thing, sure paid off to wait that one out!
