just got my big ego, a little confused

[copperpipe]

I just got my big ego in the mail. The hardware itself looks nice, smaller than I thought though size isn't a concern for me since it will be a permanent plug-in.

But I plugged the usb cable into my computer, and then a rca cable from the line-out of the ego to the line-in on my mini-x's.

The sound works, but changing the system volume level has no effect for me, in either linux (where I'll be using it) or windows 7 (a test machine to make sure it's not a linux bug )

From reading the description in the manual, it appears that only the headphone output is affected by the system volume control, whereas the line-out is mentioned in combination with "external headphone amplifiers, and powered monitors that have their own volume controls".

So it looks like the line out is permanently "100%" volume level with no way to change that, is that correct?

And if so, what kind of quality reduction am I getting by using the headphone out into my mini-x's? The manual says "the analog line out ... provides the best possible sound quality for connection to the line in on ... "

My intent is to purchase the volume knob doo-hicky from E once they are back in stock (apparently many weeks / months away yet); at that point I could use the line-out again, but wondering if it's safe to use headphone out for now into the mini line-in, and if there is any reduction in sound quality etc.

Even though I have volume knobs on my minix's, I can't use them as volume knobs because they are vertically bi-amping my speakers, so they are "set and forget" knobs, I can't change them up and down easily without throwing the stereo balance out all the time.

[garbulky]

You can use the system volume within the applications. Even if the regular system volume doesn't work. I think to make the system volume work you have to install the driver downloaded from the web site. I dobut they have a linux driver

[copperpipe]

I did download and install the driver for windows, but linux doesn't need one (it has out of the box support for generic usb audio 2 channel sound cards, just like the mac does).

But I'm using VLC as my media player, and on windows, adjusting VLC volume is just adjusting it's own internal volume, it doesn't adjust windows volume.

So right now the Ego works exactly the same on linux as it does on windows, I'm just wondering if my understanding of the lineout (no volume control there) is correct as changing the system volume only appears to affect the headphone out jack.

[Gary Cook]

I use a MacMini with a Big Ego and volume control on iTunes controls the BigEgo's output volume to a pair of Airmotive 4's. My understanding is similar should happen using Windows on a PC with the right drivers installed.

Happy New Year
Gary

[audiobill]

Perhaps the volume control operates in the digital doman, an inferior solution compared to a well implemented control in the analog domain.

So, the rca outs are fixed at 100% and depend an external analog volume control.

Maybe the DC-1 is a better choice.

I don't know this, just speculating.

[copperpipe]

Jan 6, 2016 19:02:05 GMT -5 Gary Cook said:

I use a MacMini with a Big Ego and volume control on iTunes controls the BigEgo's output volume to a pair of Airmotive 4's. My understanding is similar should happen using Windows on a PC with the right drivers installed.

Happy New Year
Gary

Thanks Gary, my question though is a little different; does the volume control in your computer change both the "line out", and the "headphone out"? Or does the "line out" always stay fixed at 100% volume?

[copperpipe]

Jan 6, 2016 19:56:59 GMT -5 audiobill said:

Perhaps the volume control operates in the digital doman, an inferior solution compared to a well implemented control in the analog domain.

So, the rca outs are fixed at 100% and depend an external analog volume control.

Maybe the DC-1 is a better choice.

I don't know this, just speculating.

My understanding is that the volume control on the Ego is a digitally controlled, analog lossless volume control. So even though the operating system is digitally sending the volume up / down, the volume is adjusted in the analog domain, just like the DC-1 and XDA-2 etc.

[Gary Cook]

Jan 6, 2016 20:12:43 GMT -5 copperpipe said:

Jan 6, 2016 19:02:05 GMT -5 Gary Cook said:

I use a MacMini with a Big Ego and volume control

Thanks Gary, my question though is a little different; does the volume control in your computer change both the "line out", and the "headphone out"? Or does the "line out" always stay fixed at 100% volume?

I use the headphones out on my BigEgo as it uses the analogue ladder for volume control, the volume is controlled by the master volume in the MacMini. Whereas the iTunes volume control is bit reducing. So I set the iTunes volume at maximum and then the master volume at the desired listening level. BTW the Airmotive 4's are set at about 50% volume.


Happy New Year
Gary

[audiobill]

Gary, do you know if itunes is limiting bits to reduce volume?

Same outcome as limiting bits in ego?

Tks

[copperpipe]

Not having used a mac in over a year; does itunes control the mac osx system volume (so all beeps / dings from the OS are adjusted up and down as you adjust itunes volume up / down)? If it doesn't, then I don't think you're adjusting the line-out volume, just the intensity of the volume in itunes (which is what I do in VLC). It works to adjust it that way, but then you don't get the lossless volume adjustment that the Ego has.

I'm a little suspicious that you might just be adjusting itunes volume, not big-ego volume, due to the wording in the usermanual:

"You can also connect the Headphone Output on your Big Ego to a pair of powered monitors that don't have their own volume control".

and

"The analog Line Output bypasses the headphone amplifier, and provides the best possible sound quality for connection to the line level inputs in preamps, pre/pros, external headphone amplifiers, and powered monitors that have their own volume controls."

To me that suggests the line out is not affected by volume control in the OS, since the intent of the line out is to feed devices that come with their own volume control (at which point you don't need another one on the DAC / Ego).

[geebo]

Jan 7, 2016 9:30:29 GMT -5 copperpipe said:

Not having used a mac in over a year; does itunes control the mac osx system volume (so all beeps / dings from the OS are adjusted up and down as you adjust itunes volume up / down)? If it doesn't, then I don't think you're adjusting the line-out volume, just the intensity of the volume in itunes (which is what I do in VLC). It works to adjust it that way, but then you don't get the lossless volume adjustment that the Ego has.

I'm a little suspicious that you might just be adjusting itunes volume, not big-ego volume, due to the wording in the usermanual:

"You can also connect the Headphone Output on your Big Ego to a pair of powered monitors that don't have their own volume control".

and

"The analog Line Output bypasses the headphone amplifier, and provides the best possible sound quality for connection to the line level inputs in preamps, pre/pros, external headphone amplifiers, and powered monitors that have their own volume controls."

To me that suggests the line out is not affected by volume control in the OS, since the intent of the line out is to feed devices that come with their own volume control (at which point you don't need another one on the DAC / Ego).

That's what I thought as well. Have you tried the headphone output?

[copperpipe]

Jan 7, 2016 9:47:15 GMT -5 geebo said:

That's what I thought as well. Have you tried the headphone output?

I have, and the system volume control does change the headphone line out volume. It just "feels" wrong, though, to use the headphone output into the mini's. I don't have any engineering / substantial reason why I don't want to do that, and even the manual suggests it's OK, I just think the reference wording in the manual "best possible sound quality" suggests I should be using line out.

I've put an ad up in the emporium for a control freak, maybe some kind soul will offer me one for a decent price, at which point I could use line-out to the control freak to the line in on the mini's. I actually like the idea of a physical knob on my desk, one of the features I got used to on my focusrite and would like to have again with this new Ego.

[garbulky]

There's also this. Which I consider a little nicer looking.
schiit.com/products/sys
boomzilla may have something for you in terms of the control freak....

[KeithL]

Easy answer

Trying to "reason out" how the volume is being controlled by different programs can be tricky; some programs use their own internal digital volume control, some use the O/S system volume control, some link the two together, and jRiver lets you choose to use whichever one you like. Some programs may even use one or the other depending on what options you have enabled - like whether you've enabled fade or gapless playback - and various settings in the O/S itself may also affect which way it's done. However, there's a really easy way to figure it out. The digitally controlled high quality analog volume control on the Big Ego ONLY affects the Headphone output (we expect you to connect the Line out to something like a preamp or pre/pro - which has its own volume control). Therefore, if whatever program and method you chose ONLY affects the level of the Big Ego's Headphone output, then it is using the Big Egos internal volume control; and, if it affects both the Headphone and Line outputs on the Big Ego, then it is controlling the volume digitally.

Two important things you should note, though:

1) The difference in sound quality between the Headphone output and the Line output on the Big Ego is pretty slight. Therefore, if you want to use the Big Ego's internal volume control with the Big Ego connected to your pre/pro or headphone amp, and you can configure your software to do so, you can just use the Headphone output instead of the Line output; it's very doubtful you'll hear a difference.

2) Most of the bad things people say about digital volume controls, and about how, when you turn them way down, they reduce the resolution of digital audio so drastically that it becomes audible, are really mostly associated with digitally controlling the volume of a 16 bit audio file without first upsampling the bit depth to avoid rounding errors. While Windows or Apple may do this in their operating system under some circumstances, and some low-end programs may still do it, MOST modern programs these days, including jRiver, internally upscale the audio to a higher bit depth before attenuating it digitally, which makes the errors introduced by digitally reducing the volume much less significant. (In other words, while the Big Ego's internal volume control is technically better than the internal digital volume control in jRiver, it's very doubtful you'd actually hear a difference; likewise for most "audiophile music players".)  

[geebo]

Jan 7, 2016 9:57:46 GMT -5 copperpipe said:

Jan 7, 2016 9:47:15 GMT -5 geebo said:

That's what I thought as well. Have you tried the headphone output?

I have, and the system volume control does change the headphone line out volume. It just "feels" wrong, though, to use the headphone output into the mini's. I don't have any engineering / substantial reason why I don't want to do that, and even the manual suggests it's OK, I just think the reference wording in the manual "best possible sound quality" suggests I should be using line out.

I've put an ad up in the emporium for a control freak, maybe some kind soul will offer me one for a decent price, at which point I could use line-out to the control freak to the line in on the mini's. I actually like the idea of a physical knob on my desk, one of the features I got used to on my focusrite and would like to have again with this new Ego.

Have you also set the Ego as the default sound device in Windows?

[copperpipe]

Thanks Keith for your explanation, that makes sense to me. I'm a VLC guy so I'll have to figure out what it does in terms of volume adjustment, pretty sure it's its own internal volume though.

[copperpipe]

Jan 7, 2016 10:25:25 GMT -5 geebo said:

Have you also set the Ego as the default sound device in Windows?

Yes I did, I even made VLC use the Ego directly in the VLC audio driver settings and not just relying on the default windows sound output.

[Gary Cook]

Thanks Keith that clarified a few things, on my MacMini I set the iTunes volume at maximum and then the master volume at the desired listening level. With the iTunes volume at 100% and the Airmotive 4's volume at 50%, the master volume varies between ~40% and ~80% depending on the desired listening level.


Happy New Year
Gary