Another "Should I buy the XMC-1?" Thread - UMC vs XMC vs XSP

[greenpsycho]

First off: sorry.  I'm pretty torn right now and I guess I'm just looking for someone to talk me into it.

Right now I'm running everything through my UMC-200, and its good, but not great - I find the DAC portion not very good, and the Mix out is noisy for whatever reason (I tried Mix out into my X7 for some headphone LP listening and needle drops, and it wasn't good - the zone 2 out is much better, but its a pain with multiple volume controls at that point).

Anywho, I picked up a UMIK-1 and ran the Dirac trial on my computer to see if what the experience would be like. I've been playing around with it for a few days, and honestly, I have a hard time discerning the difference (granted this is coming through my computer, off Google Play music - because I can't get anything else to work with Dirac pretty terrible software). Don't get me wrong, I can tell the difference (bigger sound stage, a bit more clarity and ever so slightly less haze, but the differences I'm hearing are ever so slight and not necessarily better, just different (hope that makes sense).

I'm 95% onboard with the XSP, however, I have a few digital inputs I just can't do without and I'm not sure how I would handle those with the XSP (chromecast, computer video in, bluray in, video out to monitor and projector)

Long story long: is there any reason my experience with dirac would be any different on the XMC than through my computer?  I think I read the analog portion is on par with the XSP, but wanted to confirm. I'm really a stereo guy, and don't have room for a full 5.1 setup right now, which  makes the $2000 a pretty steep investment when I'm not really using all the capabilities. Additionally, I could spend the same amount on something else that would really make a difference (just not sure what that is )

[hemster]

Given your caveats above, if I were you, I would certainly spring for the XMC-1 (even if for 2 channel). Dirac Full is excellent at taming your room and that is priceless, IMHO. I can say this based on my own 2-channel experience in my theater. Music is of paramount importance to me with movies a close second. 

I don't have the XSP-1 myself but have auditioned it in friends' rooms. I can say that for an all-analog application, this is a great unit. But many of us (including you) have at least some digital inputs. Besides, that gorgeous OLED display on the XMC-1 is amazing!  

[brutiarti]

The xmc-1 is a side move from the xsp-1 + dc-1 for 2ch IMO. The advantage of the xmc-1 is Dirac. If you are running only 2 channel you need to evaluate if it is worth the extra cash only for Dirac.

[sidvicious]

Based off of the Four Main Points of what you stated 1) That Stereo was number one with you. 2) You didn't want a full 5.1 set of speakers. 3) You were not sure what Dirac could fully do for you and there are certain parts of Dirac that you aren't totally happy with. 4) The cost of purchase for you with the XMC is steep, I would have to say get the XSP, as I think it would be an upgrade over the UMC-200. The XSP also has a built in phono preamp (for Vinyl Records), which is something you would have to buy extra for the XMC-1, but Emotiva sells one. For a two channel only set-up and based off reviews and specs (I have never owned the XSP), it sounds like the XMC-1 would be a lateral move and overkill for a two channel only set up for you. The XMC-1 is meant to ring every bit of performance out of a Home Theater set-up with tons of options in the menu for subs (two) and speakers (The XMC-1 does have a good Dac).

I currently own the XMC-1, but I don't use it for two channel music, but I have and it's great at this as well and anyone would be proud to own it. I have a two channel set-up for Audio Only upstairs with the Theater being in the basement, so I understand you perfectly with two channel only set-up being your priority (when I want to listen to stereo there is no substitute and when I want to listen to movies there is no substitute, I have tried combining the two in the past and it doesn't work for me). My two channel set-up for music is better than my home theater set up for music only, but I wouldn't trade the XMC-1 for anything, I'm very pleased with it. Save your money and enjoy the XSP, I think you will probably be very happy with it.

[Percussionista]

Well... Although I don't have the XMC-1 it is by pretty well most people's opinions to be top-top-top. But if it's too much coin, I don't think the XSP-1 is going to be enough for you. You said you needed digital inputs and that means yet another box. The DC-1 is very nice but it only has one each of the various digital inputs. If you need two toslink inputs (e.g.) you're screwed again. By the time you keep adding boxes, the XMC-1 would have been the much better deal, and it offers possibility to expand beyond stereo.

Having said all that, the promised Emersa processor is under $1000, or in the same price range as the XSP-1, and is supposed to have stellar sonics, has Dirac, both analog and digital inputs, and covers the surround field if you ever go that route - they are comparing it favorably to the XMC-1 but at less than half the coin. They promise its really good. But we don't know. I'm personally really interested in what it can do myself (re 4K TV universe), but I wait and wait ;-)

They might not be released for some months, but if you can be patient, it might be the way to go. I sure hope Dan & Co. can post full specs pronto! And, it would not surprise me if Emo had a summer sale too, if you had to wait for final comparisons, by which time I would imagine the XMC-1 would be updated with the new board for all new purchases.

Good luck with your decision!

Jan 8, 2016 20:25:00 GMT -5 greenpsycho said:

First off: sorry.  I'm pretty torn right now and I guess I'm just looking for someone to talk me into it.

Right now I'm running everything through my UMC-200, and its good, but not great - I find the DAC portion not very good, and the Mix out is noisy for whatever reason (I tried Mix out into my X7 for some headphone LP listening and needle drops, and it wasn't good - the zone 2 out is much better, but its a pain with multiple volume controls at that point).

Anywho, I picked up a UMIK-1 and ran the Dirac trial on my computer to see if what the experience would be like. I've been playing around with it for a few days, and honestly, I have a hard time discerning the difference (granted this is coming through my computer, off Google Play music - because I can't get anything else to work with Dirac pretty terrible software). Don't get me wrong, I can tell the difference (bigger sound stage, a bit more clarity and ever so slightly less haze, but the differences I'm hearing are ever so slight and not necessarily better, just different (hope that makes sense).

I'm 95% onboard with the XSP, however, I have a few digital inputs I just can't do without and I'm not sure how I would handle those with the XSP (chromecast, computer video in, bluray in, video out to monitor and projector)

Long story long: is there any reason my experience with dirac would be any different on the XMC than through my computer?  I think I read the analog portion is on par with the XSP, but wanted to confirm. I'm really a stereo guy, and don't have room for a full 5.1 setup right now, which  makes the $2000 a pretty steep investment when I'm not really using all the capabilities. Additionally, I could spend the same amount on something else that would really make a difference (just not sure what that is )

[bolle]

How do you come to know that what you are listening to and not liking is the DAC? Did you make a comparison with different DAC, analog and digital Input, Level matched?

[greenpsycho]

Jan 9, 2016 4:28:11 GMT -5 bolle said:

How do you come to know that what you are listening to and not liking is the DAC? Did you make a comparison with different DAC, analog and digital Input, Level matched?

I have a series of go to tracks when listening to new stuff. I think level matching is most important when doing a/b/x tests and switching back and forth, but I'm VERY familiar with these particular tracks so I'm listening for specific things. When I first got everything setup, I had no head amp or external dac and was using optical from my computer into the UMC. Then I added a schiit modi and I was shocked at how much better the sound was (same optical out from the computer, analog into the UMC and out to headphones/speakers). Since then I've tested my idac2 and the X7, and the conclusion I've come to is that the DAC portion of the UMC is just not very good. Fine for watching shows via chromecast, but just not my preference musically.


Thanks for all the help everyone, still going back and forth. I guess I should have mentioned that because I need at least 2 HDMI inputs (for video switching and D/A conversion if going with the XSP), the alternative to the XMC is the XSP + BDP-105D (which really doesn't provide any sort of cost savings). I'm just not sure how else to get decent d/a conversion for my HDMI stuff

SO really the question is, for similar amounts of money: XMC-1 vs XSP-1 + oppo BDP-105D

[klinemj]

I had the xsp-1 and still have an Oppo 105 and an xmc-1.

My choice was the xmc-1 over the xsp-1, and in my setup it was not close. I found the xmc-1 did a lot better with sub integration than the xsp-1. That was using just the manual setup,not DIRAC. When I added DIRAC on top, I got a noticeable increase in clarity.

As far as the Oppo, I personally don't like its DAC over the DC-1. A friend was able to pick it out blind over and over also. And, given I was using the dc-1 with the XSP, it is fair to say I have not given up anything by taking both out of my system and using just the XMC...in fact, as noted above I have gained.

I will find the link to my review and post it here.

Mark

[klinemj]

Here is my review. All my main thoughts are in the first post.

Klinemj's review

[greenpsycho]

Definitely interesting. Like you stated in your review, I had always had this gut feeling that analog sound should stay analog, but as you noted: "And now, I added the XPS-1 so I can play vinyl again. Anyone wondering how the XPS-1 sounds converted back to digital for DIRAC and bass mgmt...? Well, fantastic, thank you! (Even if it seems sacrilegious to convert vinyl to digital...)"

[Priapulus]

I have both xmc-1 and xsp-1 (having bought the XSP-1 first); and am using both (see sig below). I would certainly choose the XMC-1 for audio quality, dirac, video switching and dac all rolled into one.

The XSP-1 is excellent in the analogue domain, but redundant in my setup (I use it, because I have it; I like it's analogue purity for the record player).

Sincerely
/blair

[brutiarti]

If you see the CES pictures, Emotiva used the bdp-105 for their demo. A lot of other manufacturers use it too as reference source/dac.

[klinemj]

Jan 9, 2016 9:23:50 GMT -5 greenpsycho said:

Definitely interesting. Like you stated in your review, I had always had this gut feeling that analog sound should stay analog, but as you noted: "And now, I added the XPS-1 so I can play vinyl again. Anyone wondering how the XPS-1 sounds converted back to digital for DIRAC and bass mgmt...? Well, fantastic, thank you! (Even if it seems sacrilegious to convert vinyl to digital...)"

I think that was my biggest surprise with the xmc.

Mark

[frenchyfranky]

Hi greenpsycho

I myself let go the XSP-1 only because I don't have any other use for and also because the XMC-1 do everything as good as the XSP-1 in the analog domain. For me the big advantage of the XMC-1 is the Dirac room correction, let me explain it, my 1974 (worst decade for construction regulations in Quebec) bungalow living room is maybe the worst environment for a listening room I had ever seen, first the room is very small 12' X 18' and the construction materials are very cheap (wall of 2" X 4" Studs and outside aluminum clapboard, floor of 2" X 10" strut and not enough thick plywood and not enough rigid and strong), it results in a too flexible room to obtaining a good sound. Imagine that you try to listening music in a cardboard shoe's box, all that you hear come from vibrating box's. It is practically and physically impossible to tune correctly the room. There's the Dirac change the game, even for 2 channel stereo critical listening session, I never think that it could be possible in my living room environment, and I never had good results in the past with all the room correction software in my past AVR ( Anthem MRX-700 with ARC and before Denon AVR-3803 with Audyssey ) or my last pre-pro UMC-1 with Emo Q, they all failed to make my room sounds good, I usually prefer living with my room problem without corrections, habitually the corrections results in a worst sounding, except with Dirac software, it is so powerful, sophisticated and precise that I couldn't believe what I heard. Like any other software it not only correcting frequencies but also timings for each frequencies, bouncing, decay, reverb, dynamic etc etc, every aspect intering in room sounding results. Wow! In critical sweet spot stereo listening the results is astonishing, I now believe that I'm listening in a reference room every down aspects of my bad house have now gone. In 7.1 cinema mode, listening a movie or a DVD concert is now unbelievably good, I feel like I'm physically in action on place, nothing less.

I hope this helps

[greenpsycho]

Wanted to thank everyone for the help. I think the info from frenchyfranky and klinemj really did it for me: if the analog on the XMC is every bit as good as the XSP, I really have no reason not to. I like the concept of the xsp + 105D, but I think in practice it will start getting annoying trying to use the 105D as a hdmi switcher and DAC for chromecast (effectively its another preamp).

XMC-1 order placed, thanks again for the fantastic help as always (best community on the internet!)

[LCSeminole]

Jan 10, 2016 20:59:47 GMT -5 greenpsycho said:

Wanted to thank everyone for the help. I think the info from frenchyfranky and klinemj really did it for me: if the analog on the XMC is every bit as good as the XSP, I really have no reason not to. I like the concept of the xsp + 105D, but I think in practice it will start getting annoying trying to use the 105D as a hdmi switcher and DAC for chromecast (effectively its another preamp).

XMC-1 order placed, thanks again for the fantastic help as always (best community on the internet!)

Klinemj gave you solid advise as you've already said, all I can add is "Good Choice"!