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Post by copperpipe on Feb 9, 2016 7:31:49 GMT -5
Threads like this are a reminder of why people on other forums laugh at Emotiva fans. You say that like we should actually care  Nobody here does, sorry bud. Emotiva makes some really great products. If you can't hear it and you want to pay "mercedes" money, then by all means do so, knock yourself out. Just don't come on here and try and insult us, that's not going to work. A lot of us are fans of many other (sometimes high end) products as well, not just Emotiva; check the sigs. And finally, many of the Emotiva products are very favourably receieved by those who review them, sometimes even becoming a reference in their test systems (audioholics). |
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Post by rtg97229 on Feb 9, 2016 10:28:36 GMT -5
Threads like this are a reminder of why people on other forums laugh at Emotiva fans. You say that like we should actually care Nobody here does, sorry bud. Emotiva makes some really great products. If you can't hear it and you want to pay "mercedes" money, then by all means do so, knock yourself out. Just don't come on here and try and insult us, that's not going to work. A lot of us are fans of many other (sometimes high end) products as well, not just Emotiva; check the sigs. And finally, many of the Emotiva products are very favourably receieved by those who review them, sometimes even becoming a reference in their test systems (audioholics). Congratulations on adding nothing to the conversation. I am glad you don't care because you are what people are laughing at. As for checking sigs, look at mine, I have plenty of Emotiva equipment. |
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Post by copperpipe on Feb 9, 2016 12:28:27 GMT -5
You say that like we should actually care Nobody here does, sorry bud. Emotiva makes some really great products. If you can't hear it and you want to pay "mercedes" money, then by all means do so, knock yourself out. Just don't come on here and try and insult us, that's not going to work. A lot of us are fans of many other (sometimes high end) products as well, not just Emotiva; check the sigs. And finally, many of the Emotiva products are very favourably receieved by those who review them, sometimes even becoming a reference in their test systems (audioholics). Congratulations on adding nothing to the conversation. I am glad you don't care because you are what people are laughing at. As for checking sigs, look at mine, I have plenty of Emotiva equipment. You're on a thread titled "Stealth DC-1 out of stock". What on earth gives you the idea that your recent posts in this thread have any more value to the thread than mine?  Emotiva is not about absolute's, like "cheap" or "world class"; Emotiva is about value; you pay less and get more, relative to other choices available. Nice that you have some Emotiva stuff, glad to hear. Don't get so worried by people laughing at your choices. Name the product / company, you will find some people need to laugh at it; it's either too cheap, too expensive, too plain, too gaudy, too simple, too advanced... get the picture? People who laugh at the purchases of others are most often insecure about their own. Either educate them or move on, not worth giving those kind of people the time of day. |
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Post by KeithL on Feb 9, 2016 12:38:03 GMT -5
I would suggest that terms like "world class" have a lot of different meanings to different people. Rolex makes really beautiful mechanical watches; yet a typical $25 quartz Casio will actually probably keep more accurate time than a $25,000 mechanical Rolex. (it's simply impossible to make mechanical gears as accurate as even a cheap quartz oscillator.) So which is really "world class"? I guess that all depends on what you're buying it for  (The Rolex is a really nice piece of jewelry, but, if I wanted to time a precise trajectory burn to get me back from Mars, I'd absolutely take the Casio.) In the world of design and production, things change very rapidly, and custom components and short production runs raise the price by often astronomical amounts. Yes, surface mount resistors cost only a few cents each; but they are generally at least as accurate, and often more well matched, than other types. So, then, why DO some "world class" companies persist in using larger, less accurate, and massively more expensive ones instead? We make no apologies for using a $12 chip that delivers the same or better performance as a board full of parts that someone else paid $500 (or $5000) for. (I guess, if someone really wants one, we could work up something in a DC-1 with a solid gold, diamond encrusted, face plate  ) Eww, that thing upsample, that is a easy way to destroy the music... The DC-1 is world class, the volume control inside the DC-1 is worth $20,000 if you buy it from Pass Labs.... The DC-1 also got a reclocker inside it that's worth another $700 if you buy it from pro audio makers. You mean the resistor ladder? You do know that surface mount resistors cost a fraction of a cent each right? Calling anything Emotiva has ever made world class must be a bad joke. When I buy anything Emotiva it is for one reason, its cheap. |
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Post by rtg97229 on Feb 9, 2016 12:40:56 GMT -5
Congratulations on adding nothing to the conversation. I am glad you don't care because you are what people are laughing at. As for checking sigs, look at mine, I have plenty of Emotiva equipment. You're on a thread titled "Stealth DC-1 out of stock". What on earth gives you the idea that your recent posts in this thread have any more value to the thread than mine? Emotiva is not about absolute's, like "cheap" or "world class"; Emotiva is about value; you pay less and get more, relative to other choices available. Nice that you have some Emotiva stuff, glad to hear. Don't get so worried by people laughing at your choices. Name the product / company, you will find some people need to laugh at it; it's either too cheap, too expensive, too plain, too gaudy, too simple, too advanced... get the picture? People who laugh at the purchases of others are most often insecure about their own. Either educate them or move on, not worth giving those kind of people the time of day. When people laugh on other forums it is usually over how fervent and persistent some EmoFans can be. I use the products and enjoy them, I even recommended the DC-1 in this very thread, but when I point of any lack of perfection such as the lack of masking and floating shield for example people freak out or want to debate the definition of the word cheap when context of cost is already given. |
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Post by novisnick on Feb 9, 2016 12:50:25 GMT -5
You're on a thread titled "Stealth DC-1 out of stock". What on earth gives you the idea that your recent posts in this thread have any more value to the thread than mine? Emotiva is not about absolute's, like "cheap" or "world class"; Emotiva is about value; you pay less and get more, relative to other choices available. Nice that you have some Emotiva stuff, glad to hear. Don't get so worried by people laughing at your choices. Name the product / company, you will find some people need to laugh at it; it's either too cheap, too expensive, too plain, too gaudy, too simple, too advanced... get the picture? People who laugh at the purchases of others are most often insecure about their own. Either educate them or move on, not worth giving those kind of people the time of day. When people laugh on other forums it is usually over how fervent and persistent some EmoFans can be. I use the products and enjoy them, I even recommended the DC-1 in this very thread, but when I point of any lack of perfection such as the lack of masking and floating shield for example people freak out or want to debate the definition of the word cheap when context of cost is already given. With your statemen, " I point of any lack of perfection" then yes, your definition of cheap applies ! Perfection, or even approaching it, does cost much more.  |
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Post by rtg97229 on Feb 9, 2016 13:02:29 GMT -5
I would suggest that terms like "world class" have a lot of different meanings to different people. Rolex makes really beautiful mechanical watches; yet a typical $25 quartz Casio will actually probably keep more accurate time than a $25,000 mechanical Rolex. (it's simply impossible to make mechanical gears as accurate as even a cheap quartz oscillator.) So which is really "world class"? I guess that all depends on what you're buying it for (The Rolex is a really nice piece of jewelry, but, if I wanted to time a precise trajectory burn to get me back from Mars, I'd absolutely take the Casio.) In the world of design and production, things change very rapidly, and custom components and short production runs raise the price by often astronomical amounts. Yes, surface mount resistors cost only a few cents each; but they are generally at least as accurate, and often more well matched, than other types. So, then, why DO some "world class" companies persist in using larger, less accurate, and massively more expensive ones instead? We make no apologies for using a $12 chip that delivers the same or better performance as a board full of parts that someone else paid $500 (or $5000) for. (I guess, if someone really wants one, we could work up something in a DC-1 with a solid gold, diamond encrusted, face plate ) You mean the resistor ladder? You do know that surface mount resistors cost a fraction of a cent each right? Calling anything Emotiva has ever made world class must be a bad joke. When I buy anything Emotiva it is for one reason, its cheap. I don't disagree with any of this really. I think we both know why some companies persist on using less accurate and more expensive methods though. I stand by Emotiva making very utilitarian products for the cause of making sound happen though my speakers. Hence my comment; I buy Emotiva products because they are cheap, as in they don't cost very much. Or to quote Emotiva's own marketing, you don't have to get a second mortgage to afford it. |
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Post by monkumonku on Feb 9, 2016 13:23:44 GMT -5
You're on a thread titled "Stealth DC-1 out of stock". What on earth gives you the idea that your recent posts in this thread have any more value to the thread than mine? Emotiva is not about absolute's, like "cheap" or "world class"; Emotiva is about value; you pay less and get more, relative to other choices available. Nice that you have some Emotiva stuff, glad to hear. Don't get so worried by people laughing at your choices. Name the product / company, you will find some people need to laugh at it; it's either too cheap, too expensive, too plain, too gaudy, too simple, too advanced... get the picture? People who laugh at the purchases of others are most often insecure about their own. Either educate them or move on, not worth giving those kind of people the time of day. When people laugh on other forums it is usually over how fervent and persistent some EmoFans can be. I use the products and enjoy them, I even recommended the DC-1 in this very thread, but when I point of any lack of perfection such as the lack of masking and floating shield for example people freak out or want to debate the definition of the word cheap when context of cost is already given. I don't think Emo fans are any more fervent than fans of other brands. And people who laugh on the other forums about Emo fans are often just as fervent and persistent in their attempts at mocking Emo so it goes both ways. I have to agree with Copperpipe that in many cases this is because people who laugh at others are insecure about themselves. That said, I'm a fan of Emo because of their cheap prices as well. "Cheap" in my mind connotes not just pricing but quality but in this case I'm using it based on the way you define it.. which fits the bill for me. I'm glad to have such nice gear at affordable prices! |
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Post by rtg97229 on Feb 9, 2016 13:53:31 GMT -5
monkumonku Not to further derail this DC-1 thread but how are you liking the Bifrost? I have not gone down the Schiit path yet but their products also look like a great value.
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Post by rtg97229 on Feb 9, 2016 14:04:39 GMT -5
Has anyone checked this DAC/Preamp from Essence? It looks to be a direct competitor to DC-1 at $499 with Analog and Digital inputs. It has balanced outputs and also a HDMI 1.3 in/out. HDMI adds more flexibility to the mix even though v1.3 is old. www.essenceelectrostatic.com/product/hdacc/Eww, that thing upsample, that is a easy way to destroy the music... The DC-1 is world class, the volume control inside the DC-1 is worth $20,000 if you buy it from Pass Labs.... The DC-1 also got a reclocker inside it that's worth another $700 if you buy it from pro audio makers. I have not used the essence DAC or any of their products but it does seem to be well regarded by reviewers and the upsampling is user defeatable. This from a user on head-fi. I don't know if it is a good product or not but at its price point it seems insulting for Emo fans to just dismiss it as junk without further investigation. I am not going to give up my DC-1 on a gamble but more information would be nice. |
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Post by monkumonku on Feb 9, 2016 14:29:20 GMT -5
monkumonku Not to further derail this DC-1 thread but how are you liking the Bifrost? I have not gone down the Schiit path yet but their products also look like a great value. Well first off, I'm not one who hears big differences between DAC's or amps. Normally my preferences arise from just listening to something and then finding that I prefer one gear over another without being able to specifically say why (most often it's just one seems to sound better than the other). So keep that in mind for whatever it is worth. I like the Bifrost Multibit (or "Bimby" as it has been nicknamed). I had the original Uber version of it which I sent back for an upgrade to the multibit version. It sounds good to me and I really don't remember the original version well enough to declare there's any significant difference. I just thought it would be cool to have the multibit version. In comparing it to the XMC-1's DAC's, the main difference between the two is that the Bifrost locks onto the signal faster and I don't experience any delays, whereas at times the XMC-1 will miss the first second or so of a recording while it is locking onto the signal. Sound-wise, I don't notice anything offhand when switching back and forth between the two, though. Like I can't say oh, this one has much wider soundstage or I hear more air with this one, etc. and I've certainly never heard anything on a recording with one that I didn't hear with the other. Honestly, if I used the XMC-1 DAC I would be just fine with it except for the annoyance of missing the first part of a song as I mentioned above. Also, very rarely do I play anything with higher resolution than CD quality (44/16) so maybe the advantages of one DAC over the other aren't being brought out due to the source material resolution. Schiit makes products that offer great value, same as Emo. They are well built and their service is excellent. To my ears the sound quality is excellent as well. |
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Post by Axis on Feb 9, 2016 15:25:27 GMT -5
The Emotiva DC-1 Rocks ! I would not trade it for any Schiit no matter what they say or who laughs.
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Post by listener on Feb 9, 2016 16:21:38 GMT -5
rtg97229,
You bad mouth Emotiva and the people who like it. Every post is filled with put-downs. Why don't you find a forum where you can say positive things about something? You are just forum pollution here.
For the record, I own one piece of Emotiva gear and like it. Emotiva makes several products that interest me but it's all about rational choices when I buy something.
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Post by rtg97229 on Feb 9, 2016 16:32:00 GMT -5
The Emotiva DC-1 Rocks ! I would not trade it for any Schiit no matter what they say or who laughs. To be fair I am sure they are both great DACs at their given price points. With amplifiers the case is simple, buy the low cost item with sufficient capabilities unless you want jewelry / extra services / status or whatever else. DACs can be different because you can actually hear the difference between them in systems that are fully functioning as intended. Also personal preference does not always follow the path of more expensive. I have an old Marantz CDP that for some reason sounds wonderful to me. Whatever is making me prefer it over the oppo is probably a bad thing from a measurement perspective but I don't yet know. Maybe someday I'll borrow an audio precision analyzer from work and measures to see what is going on. |
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Post by rtg97229 on Feb 9, 2016 16:35:29 GMT -5
rtg97229, You bad mouth Emotiva and the people who like it. Every post is filled with put-downs. Why don't you find a forum where you can say positive things about something? You are just forum pollution here. For the record, I own one piece of Emotiva gear and like it. Emotiva makes several products that interest me but it's all about rational choices when I buy something. Well I disagree with your assessment but if you are going to get all emotional about the things I have to say you do have the option of not reading my posts. |
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Post by audiobill on Feb 9, 2016 17:15:25 GMT -5
Rtg, you really are acting poorly.
Let everyone make their own calls, we all have different priorities.
No problem advocating yours, but the put downs are uncalled for.
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Post by Cogito on Feb 9, 2016 17:46:36 GMT -5
Eww, that thing upsample, that is a easy way to destroy the music... The DC-1 is world class, the volume control inside the DC-1 is worth $20,000 if you buy it from Pass Labs.... The DC-1 also got a reclocker inside it that's worth another $700 if you buy it from pro audio makers. You mean the resistor ladder? You do know that surface mount resistors cost a fraction of a cent each right? Calling anything Emotiva has ever made world class must be a bad joke. When I buy anything Emotiva it is for one reason, its cheap. Well, resistor ladders are typically more expensive to implement on a circuit board and vastly superior to potentiometers in reliability. I can tell you that much of Emotiva gear offers world class performance. Is it the best? Nope, but you'll be hard pressed to tell any difference between Emotiva gear and similar gear costing MANY times more in blind tests. I'd bet if Emotiva had introduced their gear at three or four times the current prices, they would have gotten a whole lot more respect from the "high-end" folks. Instead, these "high-end" find themselves in a tough position justifying why their products command such exorbitant prices. |
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Post by rtg97229 on Feb 9, 2016 17:54:44 GMT -5
Rtg, you really are acting poorly. Let everyone make their own calls, we all have different priorities. No problem advocating yours, but the put downs are uncalled for. Did you actually read my posts? I don't remember forcing anyone to do things my way. I do remember recommending the DC-1 and some people seeming to think I did not do so loud enough. |
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Post by rtg97229 on Feb 9, 2016 17:57:11 GMT -5
You mean the resistor ladder? You do know that surface mount resistors cost a fraction of a cent each right? Calling anything Emotiva has ever made world class must be a bad joke. When I buy anything Emotiva it is for one reason, its cheap. Well, resistor ladders are typically more expensive to implement on a circuit board and vastly superior to potentiometers in reliability. I can tell you that much of Emotiva gear offers world class performance. Is it the best? Nope, but you'll be hard pressed to tell any difference between Emotiva gear and similar gear costing MANY times more in blind tests. I'd bet if Emotiva had introduced their gear at three or four times the current prices, they would have gotten a whole lot more respect from the "high-end" folks. Instead, these "high-end" find themselves in a tough position justifying why their products command such exorbitant prices. I don't disagree with any of this. I actually strongly agree about long term reliability. |
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Post by rtg97229 on Feb 9, 2016 18:00:40 GMT -5
The point about the resistor ladder though is that many people can and have done it and it is cheap (as in cost) to implement. I have not seen an implementation of it personally that I consider bad. World class, to me no. Does it make for a good product, absolutely.
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Nobody here does, sorry bud. Emotiva makes some really great products. If you can't hear it and you want to pay "mercedes" money, then by all means do so, knock yourself out. Just don't come on here and try and insult us, that's not going to work. A lot of us are fans of many other (sometimes high end) products as well, not just Emotiva; check the sigs.
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