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Post by deviate2112 on Mar 11, 2016 20:40:55 GMT -5
Just a quick question, I did a search but couldn't really find what I wanted. What is the best way to send 2 channel audio out of a HTPC to the XMC-1 for the best sound quality? Is there any reason one would be better over the other?
Thanks
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Post by novisnick on Mar 11, 2016 23:19:10 GMT -5
I can't answer your question but I like the sound of the USB into the XMC-1, not sre theres a difference but it's convenient to me since i use Iremote for JRivers on my IPad.
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Post by repeetavx on Mar 12, 2016 0:39:17 GMT -5
ALL of our current DACs have asynchronous USB inputs - including the XDA-2, the DC-1, the USB Stream input on the XMC-1, and the Egos. And you are correct; an asynchronous USB input means that the DAC provides the data clock, which eliminates any jitter on that input. The XMC-1 also has an ASRC between its DSP stages - which both eliminates jitter on its digital audio inputs and serves some other purposes. I say only you can tell. Listen and tell us what worked best. |
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Post by paintedklown on Mar 12, 2016 3:44:50 GMT -5
This topic is talked about quite a bit on another forum and USB always emerges the winner for various reasons. HDMI was invented for easy connectivity, not the best SQ. Sure, USB was not invented for audio, but the advancement made for audio over USB have been substantial.
If you are playing 2 channel audio from your PC, I would recommend to go USB. If you need multichannel audio (SACD, DVD-A, BD audio, etc) then you'll have to use HDMI.
IMO, YMMV, etc. Good luck with whatever way you decide to go.
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Post by yves on Mar 12, 2016 5:32:29 GMT -5
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Post by deviate2112 on Mar 22, 2016 18:53:02 GMT -5
Bringing this alive again. Has anyone compared the XMC-1 to outboard DACs? I have a older Little Dot Dac 1 that I've been playing with /comparing to the XMC-1, but it's quite a few years old now. I'm thinking about trying something like the PS audio Digital link 3 or a Wyred 4 sound dac, I'm just wondering if anyone's tried or uses something.
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Post by fbczar on Mar 24, 2016 10:43:28 GMT -5
Bringing this alive again. Has anyone compared the XMC-1 to outboard DACs? I have a older Little Dot Dac 1 that I've been playing with /comparing to the XMC-1, but it's quite a few years old now. I'm thinking about trying something like the PS audio Digital link 3 or a Wyred 4 sound dac, I'm just wondering if anyone's tried or uses something. I have been experimenting with outboard DACs because I would like to play DSD files. Although it is a portable unit the Oppo HA-2 sounds very good with DSD, but cannot match the XMC-1's 1796DSD DACs for PCM. I suspect it has as much to do with the power supply as the DAC since the Oppo uses a Sabre DAC. I think the Oppo HA-1 might be a killer choice if you want an outboard DAC to play PCM and DSD. The Teac UD501 is really good too. I use a lot of high resolution downloads. I think an upgrade of Dirac to allow it to play high res files without down-sampling would help more than anything. |
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Post by audiosyndrome on Mar 24, 2016 14:09:04 GMT -5
Hi yves- interesting link but five years old. The XMC has an asynchronous sample rate converter (ASRC) that operates on all the digital inputs making jitter no longer relevant. Theoretically there should be no difference in sound quality amongst any of the inputs as they all go through the same circuit. Russ |
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Post by yves on Mar 24, 2016 16:36:20 GMT -5
Hi yves- interesting link but five years old. The XMC has an asynchronous sample rate converter (ASRC) that operates on all the digital inputs making jitter no longer relevant. Theoretically there should be no difference in sound quality amongst any of the inputs as they all go through the same circuit. Russ The suggestion that ASRC (Asynchronous Sample Rate Converter) makes jitter no longer relevant is just a little bit overreaching TBH. The best way to get rid of input jitter, or interface jitter is still to use the DAC clock to drive the clock in the source, i.e. asynchronous transfer modes (asynchronous USB being only one example). This is something that isn't technically possible without having some kind of link from DAC to source. The HDMI ARC (Audio Return Channel) capability introduced in HDMI 1.4 still falls short in this regard, specifically because it can still only be used to achieve a loosely coupled clocking solution, as the now 5 years old document still correctly explains. But I agree that the ASRC solution is technologically superior to the PLL solution. The latter merely filters the interface jitter in order to provide a cleaner version of the clock reconstructed from the interface to the DAC. By contrast, the former is used to manipulate the data such that it "fits" in the two clock domains. Whereas the entire purpose of using asynchronous transfer modes, such as asynchronous USB, is simply to stop any and all interface jitter from occurring, right off the bat (!) — albeit I should add that interface jitter is not the only sort of jitter that exists in a DAC. DAC jitter can only be measured at the analog outputs of the DAC. The better asynchronous USB DACs have very extremely impressive jitter performance. It goes without saying that jitter is not the only electronic artefact that impedes accuracy. Personally, I, would rather listen to a well engineered HDMI 1.4 DAC than an asynchronous USB DAC the asynchronous USB interface of which has been engineered poorly, for example. It [asynchronous USB on a DAC] is not superior by design, but by implementation. The asynchronous USB input interface in the DAC draws current from the power supply in the DAC. This then generates electric noise patterns the pattern-like characteristics of which might not interact well with certain sensitive analog parts in the DAC. Other things can still go wrong in trying to meet the design goals of a DAC product. Most DAC manufacturers also have to keep an open mind with regards to specific target audience subjective preferences. But if an async USB DAC has close to zero jitter AND can manage to stop the electric noise generated by the async USB input interface of the DAC, sufficiently before it can propagate into the rest of the DAC. Then IMHO this is something that DAC engineers should probably strive for. HDMI 2.0 audio appears like what must be one important step in the right direction. |
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Post by audiosyndrome on Mar 24, 2016 18:48:42 GMT -5
Was just trying to point out that ALL digital inputs go through the same pipe, the ASRC. In a response to a post several months ago Keith indicated that "the HDMI inputs see the ASRC too". And then I believe he said that "jitter is minimized to inconsequential" by Emotiva's implementation of the ASRC circuit.
Russ
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Post by millst on Mar 25, 2016 9:36:16 GMT -5
The USB is better for the following reasons:
No need to disable monitor power saver on computer while playing audio
No EDID negotiation and all the hassles it creates with PCs
Can watch video from an HDMI input while playing music
The difference in SQ is going to be small to none, depending on your setup, so I think Repeetavx's advice is what to follow.
-tm
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Post by yves on Mar 25, 2016 13:48:08 GMT -5
Was just trying to point out that ALL digital inputs go through the same pipe, the ASRC. In a response to a post several months ago Keith indicated that "the HDMI inputs see the ASRC too". And then I believe he said that "jitter is minimized to inconsequential" by Emotiva's implementation of the ASRC circuit. Russ Well, even if the jitter is minimized to inconsequential, manipulation of the data such that it "fits" in the two clock domains clearly is NOT inconsequential, so........ |
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Post by audiosyndrome on Mar 25, 2016 19:40:55 GMT -5
Your certainly entitled to your opinion. But I'll go with what Keith posted and I'm also not seeing (hearing) any consistent difference between reference stereo mode and HDMI direct mode for two channel listening.
Russ
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Post by vcautokid on Mar 25, 2016 22:06:45 GMT -5
I use both, but the HDMI more. It is just more convenient since I stream both audio and video. I am happy either way really.
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