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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 12, 2016 17:07:47 GMT -5
I got it from my better half, who put herself through college working at TG&Y and had SAVINGS when she graduated. I've learned a great deal from her thrifty ways. OTOH, I sometimes have to nag her to spend money. We'll have a shindig to go to and she (as always) never has the right dress. We go shopping and she likes what she sees until she sees the price tag. Then it's "GASP - I could make that for pennies on the dollar!" To which I reply - "You don't have TIME to make a dress - buy the darned thing!"
Sometimes I prevail and sometimes not. Her thrift is now a habit - not a necessity, and therefore it can be fun. She's been a real blessing to me over the years as there have been times (buying a house, raising a child) when we really needed to be thrifty. We're no longer at that point in our lives, but we've made it a habit to always live below our means. If we can't afford it, we don't buy it. We've also learned the difference between "wants" and "needs." Some never do...
That said, we DO spend more than the minimum on things we plan to use often or keep long. Houses, appliances, cars, etc.
But I digress...
Yes, Nick, I've been VERY lucky with my audio scavenging. And even now, I'm loathe to spend on a new item if I can find the same used. In my current system, however, everything but the preamp was bought new. How wonderful & strange! LOL
Boomzilla
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Post by knucklehead on Mar 12, 2016 17:58:33 GMT -5
the road to hell is paved with good intentions. It is a super generous offer. Boomzilla is being a phenomenal friend in offering this up to you, but... What happens if you love it and can't afford it? Now you will chase that sound or have to wait until. Trust me I am still living with the memory of the sound I can not afford. A dealer did this to me with a $7,000 CD player that I didn't realize I was listening to. That was about 4 years ago now. I have been chasing that sound since. I have come close, but not achieved it. Sometimes it haunts me. I'm not saying this to take away from Boom's offer, just consider what is the next step if you love it. Well the consolation for Nick is if he really likes that McIntosh but can't yet afford it, he can just live at Boom's house for a while.  And besides, he can always borrow the money. Pursuing stuff we can't afford but getting it anyway is the American way! And that 'American way' is usually by way of a credit card! I seldom buy with a card any longer. Its too easy to get what I want but then the bank gets what they want - their money back with interest. |
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Post by novisnick on Mar 12, 2016 18:35:47 GMT -5
Well the consolation for Nick is if he really likes that McIntosh but can't yet afford it, he can just live at Boom's house for a while. And besides, he can always borrow the money. Pursuing stuff we can't afford but getting it anyway is the American way! And that 'American way' is usually by way of a credit card! I seldom buy with a card any longer. Its too easy to get what I want but then the bank gets what they want - their money back with interest. I don't pay interest on money! "Thus endeth the lesson", that said,,,,,when Paradigm anounced the last run of Studio CC-690 center channels I got out the 18 month no interest Offer. I do have a couple more payments and ill be well short of ever paying them any interest. That my friend is a huge win for the novisnick household!!! My once happy to oblige Mrs. Says we have all the gear we need, ie; all that she wants,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, or is willing to pay for at this time! I have planted the seed for an Oppo 4K player but thats HT and not the same priority as two channel.  HT is great and is an experience in itself but its not an LP that I'd spin over and over to enjoy the nuances of each note, gasp and brush of the drum as the bow slides up and down the strings of the upright bass,,,,,,,,,,,oh! and smell the room as the quartet plays in front of me. Ive gotten carried away, most likely because Im listening to a new LP that Ill post in another thread. |
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Post by vinylfreak on Mar 12, 2016 18:41:52 GMT -5
Well the consolation for Nick is if he really likes that McIntosh but can't yet afford it, he can just live at Boom's house for a while. And besides, he can always borrow the money. Pursuing stuff we can't afford but getting it anyway is the American way! And that 'American way' is usually by way of a credit card! I seldom buy with a card any longer. Its too easy to get what I want but then the bank gets what they want - their money back with interest.  |
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Post by novisnick on Mar 12, 2016 18:46:39 GMT -5
I got it from my better half, who put herself through college working at TG&Y and had SAVINGS when she graduated. I've learned a great deal from her thrifty ways. OTOH, I sometimes have to nag her to spend money. We'll have a shindig to go to and she (as always) never has the right dress. We go shopping and she likes what she sees until she sees the price tag. Then it's "GASP - I could make that for pennies on the dollar!" To which I reply - "You don't have TIME to make a dress - buy the darned thing!" Sometimes I prevail and sometimes not. Her thrift is now a habit - not a necessity, and therefore it can be fun. She's been a real blessing to me over the years as there have been times (buying a house, raising a child) when we really needed to be thrifty. We're no longer at that point in our lives, but we've made it a habit to always live below our means. If we can't afford it, we don't buy it. We've also learned the difference between "wants" and "needs." Some never do... That said, we DO spend more than the minimum on things we plan to use often or keep long. Houses, appliances, cars, etc. But I digress... Yes, Nick, I've been VERY lucky with my audio scavenging. And even now, I'm loathe to spend on a new item if I can find the same used. In my current system, however, everything but the preamp was bought new. How wonderful & strange! LOL Boomzilla Well stated my friend. My sister inlaws swear that the Mrs still has her "milk money"! The older guys, please explain to the younger guys,,,,,,he,,,,,he,,,,,,he,,,,,, Biggest splurge in my life I think was the set of XPR-1s,,,,,,,and I haggled like hell!!! Not sure it helped, but it never hurts to ask. Never spent what we didn't have, I don't think anyone should be required to pay for someone elses poor decision! You make your mess, you should be required to clean it up, hence we've never lived above our means. And in the restaurant business, every penny is accounted for. The payoff is the people and eventually friends that grace the door of our business. Can buy anything with it but its a blessing from God! Like friends, a few of which are on this forum and I wouldn't hesitate to offer any of them anything they wanted or needed. You guys know who you are, and I love each and every one of you. Nick |
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Post by audiobill on Mar 12, 2016 18:46:52 GMT -5
If you owe the bank $100,000, they own you.
If you owe them $100,000,000 you own them......
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Post by novisnick on Mar 12, 2016 18:54:47 GMT -5
If you owe the bank $100,000, they own you. If you owe them $100,000,000 you owe them...... Yes,,,,,Too big to fail!! Im not him!  |
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Post by valgolfs on Mar 12, 2016 20:11:53 GMT -5
I feel everyone should try tubes one way or another. Amp, preamp, phono stage somewhere in the chain.
My past equipment in the 80s included lots of tubes and I loved them.
Preamps-Audio Research SP6B, MFA Magus, VTL
AMPS-Quicksilver and MFA monoblocks.
I was very fortunate and fickle to have had those experiences. Went through a lot of cash, and now I have all those glorious 3D liquid memories to enjoy, and attempt to bring back in my new cave.
Cheerz
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Post by 509Paul on Mar 12, 2016 20:52:59 GMT -5
I have always wanted tube gear but not ready to fall down that rabbit hole.
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Post by novisnick on Mar 12, 2016 20:58:16 GMT -5
I have always wanted tube gear but not ready to fall down that rabbit hole. Its very enticing!!  |
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Post by milsap195 on Mar 12, 2016 22:17:19 GMT -5
Stay away from tube gear that sounds "tubey", or overbearing and stay away from it regardless of whether it's made in China. That said, I highly recommend the Eastern Electric MiniMax tube gear, i.e. both the tube phono stage and the tube preamp — as well as the DAC Supreme, and in fact the M156 monoblocks sound quite spectacular too, BTW... but then again tube power amps typically are very picky about which speakers you use. Phono preamp:  Preamp:  I have been looking for over a year for a minimax preamp. The US distributor does not stock them any more. |
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Post by yves on Mar 13, 2016 4:27:21 GMT -5
I have been looking for over a year for a minimax preamp. The US distributor does not stock them any more. Talk Big Dan into putting it in the E-Proved section.  |
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 13, 2016 16:07:56 GMT -5
Or even better, tweak Big Dan until he gets irritated enough with us to get his tube gear to market just to shut us up!
We CAN be curmudgeonly!
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Post by novisnick on Apr 5, 2016 0:40:58 GMT -5
Found some educational materials! In case your interested. www.thetubestore.com/Resources/Guitar-Amp-Info/Gain-FactorI think a perfect marriage of Emotiva amps and a tube pre is a nice alternative sound. Two channel SS + tubes, someday ill have an Emotube pre,,,,,,,someday. Ill be ready Lonnie and gang! |
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KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,271
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Post by KeithL on Apr 5, 2016 11:10:33 GMT -5
While interesting, and correct as far as it goes, this information is rather specific to certain circuits.... specifically those that are run "open" - without much feedback. (Which is how they're often run in guitar amps.) For example, let's assume you have a "super simple plate coupled tube preamp" - using a 12AU7 tube. This would be a typical gain stage in a guitar preamp. (But it also might be the line stage in a simple - and pretty good - DIY hi-fi preamp.) With a 12AU7, the gain of this stage will be somewhere around 10x or 20x (depending on the plate resistor you're using). At audio line levels of a few volts, it will sound quite clean, and be reasonably quiet. Now, if you substitute a 12AX7, it will give you a gain of more like 100x. In the case of a guitar amp, that will probably make it easier for you to overdrive the next stage, which will give you a rather different sound. (Depending on the circuit you use, it might even make it easier to overdrive the single stage we're talking about.) However, most higher-quality audio preamps don't use this sort of simple circuit. Most preamps will probably use two tubes, one after the other, to yield much higher gain. They will then reduce that gain using feedback. When you do that, the overall gain of the circuit is controlled by the design of the circuit itself - and not by the gain of the individual components used. By using feedback, you get to "trade away" that higher gain, in return for much lower distortion as a result. (Feedback basically allows you to "trade" extra gain that you don't need in return for lower distortion - in almost direct proportions.) In this sort of circuit, increasing the gain of the tubes WILL NOT make the output louder. By using a tube with more gain in that type of circuit, the overall gain will remain about the same, but the distortion will be reduced. However, there is a down-side; higher-gain tubes are often slightly noisier. This is why, in many "serious" preamps, a 12AX7 will be used in the phono stage (where you really need lots of gain - even at the expense of a tiny bit more noise), but a 12AU7 will be used in the line stages (where you're more worried about its being absolutely quiet). (However, in the context of this discussion, even though the overall gain of a good preamp is usually set by the circuit design, swapping in a tube with very different gain will often change the way it sounds by altering the amount and type of distortion and/or noise it present.) (And, yes, similar factors and tradeoffs exists for specific types of transistors and FETs as well.) Found some educational materials! In case your interested. www.thetubestore.com/Resources/Guitar-Amp-Info/Gain-FactorI think a perfect marriage of Emotiva amps and a tube pre is a nice alternative sound. Two channel SS + tubes, someday ill have an Emotube pre,,,,,,,someday. Ill be ready Lonnie and gang! |
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Post by novisnick on Apr 5, 2016 11:36:16 GMT -5
While interesting, and correct as far as it goes, this information is rather specific to certain circuits.... specifically those that are run "open" - without much feedback. (Which is how they're often run in guitar amps.) For example, let's assume you have a "super simple plate coupled tube preamp" - using a 12AU7 tube. This would be a typical gain stage in a guitar preamp. (But it also might be the line stage in a simple - and pretty good - DIY hi-fi preamp.) With a 12AU7, the gain of this stage will be somewhere around 10x or 20x (depending on the plate resistor you're using). At audio line levels of a few volts, it will sound quite clean, and be reasonably quiet. Now, if you substitute a 12AX7, it will give you a gain of more like 100x. In the case of a guitar amp, that will probably make it easier for you to overdrive the next stage, which will give you a rather different sound. (Depending on the circuit you use, it might even make it easier to overdrive the single stage we're talking about.) However, most higher-quality audio preamps don't use this sort of simple circuit. Most preamps will probably use two tubes, one after the other, to yield much higher gain. They will then reduce that gain using feedback. When you do that, the overall gain of the circuit is controlled by the design of the circuit itself - and not by the gain of the individual components used. By using feedback, you get to "trade away" that higher gain, in return for much lower distortion as a result. (Feedback basically allows you to "trade" extra gain that you don't need in return for lower distortion - in almost direct proportions.) In this sort of circuit, increasing the gain of the tubes WILL NOT make the output louder. By using a tube with more gain in that type of circuit, the overall gain will remain about the same, but the distortion will be reduced. However, there is a down-side; higher-gain tubes are often slightly noisier. This is why, in many "serious" preamps, a 12AX7 will be used in the phono stage (where you really need lots of gain - even at the expense of a tiny bit more noise), but a 12AU7 will be used in the line stages (where you're more worried about its being absolutely quiet). (However, in the context of this discussion, even though the overall gain of a good preamp is usually set by the circuit design, swapping in a tube with very different gain will often change the way it sounds by altering the amount and type of distortion and/or noise it present.) (And, yes, similar factors and tradeoffs exists for specific types of transistors and FETs as well.) Found some educational materials! In case your interested. www.thetubestore.com/Resources/Guitar-Amp-Info/Gain-FactorI think a perfect marriage of Emotiva amps and a tube pre is a nice alternative sound. Two channel SS + tubes, someday ill have an Emotube pre,,,,,,,someday. Ill be ready Lonnie and gang! Thank you so much for your insight and information. As always, a very informed asset to the forum. |
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Post by novisnick on Apr 5, 2016 18:36:20 GMT -5
Big question y'all,,,,,,,
Big tubes? Or little tubes.
Why? What do you think the advantages are for each.
Im reading and learning but have always trusted my Emo family for input.
Thanks
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Post by jmasterj on Apr 5, 2016 20:21:21 GMT -5
Not trying to be funny nick, I don't understand your question that's because usually different size tubes serve different functions. As in preamp tubes tend to be smaller than power tubes. So if you could be a little more specific about what you're trying to find out someone can help.
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Post by bluemeanies on Apr 5, 2016 20:25:51 GMT -5
Hi Nick.
Not sure what you mean by BIG tubes, little tubes.
I have m125 mono-blocks and I am using the KT 88's in the output tube section. Currently I also have a rectifier tube, the Weber WZ68 which is solid state and not really a "tube".
As far as driver tubes I currently have the Sylvania 5963 in the phase/splitter position and in the volt/amplifier position. Both the rectifier tube and the volt/amplifier driver tube have the most influence on the sound quality in a amplifier.
I intend to keep my KT 88's but I will be changing out my rectifier tubes and both driver tubes to more esoteric valves.
As mentioned on this forum tubes CAN be expensive but not initially. To get into the game you start with a little and then build on it. The tubes I currently have are NOT expensive. The six tubes I intend to step up will cost me a few Benjamins, but IMO do not think they are overly expensive.
The business that I am purchasing these tube said I should get at least 10 years or more usage from them DEPENDING on the amount of play time.
If you are interested I can always give you the number and name of the owner who BTW runs his business as a one man show. He also feels a personal phone call to discuss your needs is better than e-mails and more productive.
That kind of service is very rare.
Big TUBES? Little TUBES? The output tubes are the biggest relative in size.
Hope this gave you some insight.
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Post by garbulky on Apr 5, 2016 21:48:24 GMT -5
Not knowing anything about tubes..
I prefer them big
(that's what she said.)
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