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Post by copperpipe on Apr 7, 2016 11:10:53 GMT -5
The difference between a tube power amp and an equivalent solid state one is likely to be much greater than the difference between preamps. (You can spend a lot of money and end up with one that sounds pretty bad.) A tube preamp is much more likely to add just a tiny bit of "smoothness" or "sparkle"; while a tube power amp is almost certain to have somewhat muddy bass (in addition to that); and some are deliberately designed to sound "distinctly tubey". The other thing is that, even though low-powered tube power amps are already somewhat expensive, the price rises VERY rapidly when you look at higher-powered ones. I would strongly suggest going with a tube preamp and a solid state power amp. (While a neutral solid state power amp obviously isn't going to ADD any "tube sound", it's not going to remove any tube sound added by the preamp, and it will deliver plenty of clean bass. And, if you decide that the tube sound doesn't really send you, you've still got a nice neutral power amp, which you can use with a different preamp. Or, alternately, if you decide you really like the sound of your tube preamp, it will sound pretty much the same with any neutral sounding solid state amp.) You do need to differentiate WHICH PART of "the tube sound" you're actually looking for..... * The slight "sparkle" or "shimmer" or "smoothness" is typically considered to be due to the higher levels of second harmonic distortion (and you get that with a preamp or a power amp). * The gradually increasing distortion (monotonic distortion curve) is present in both, but is more noticeable with tube power amps. That's the part that causes tube amps to seem slightly more powerful than what the specs would indicate - and some people say makes them sound "more dynamic". Unfortunately, the fact that a 20 watt tube amp sounds as powerful as a 40 watt solid state amp must be considered in light of the fact that you can probably get a 100 watt solid state power amp for less cost than a 20 watt tube amp. * The "smooth" or "loose" sounding bass is a function of damping factor - and so is mostly a characteristic of tube power amps. Most tube preamps won't won't add any of that at all. Tube preamps are also easier to design than tube power amps, and a lot cheaper to build, which means that they're more likely to work well; and they use cheaper tubes that don't tend to wear out as often (if ever). Incidentally, take all the endless chatter about this or that tube sounding hugely different with grain of salt. Tubes were originally designed as a commodity item - and most of the current attitude towards vintage tubes is... err... somewhere between "highly exaggerated" and "just plain silly". Yes, different brands and even factory runs of tubes can have slightly different electrical characteristics, which can cause them to sound slightly different in a given circuit, and some circuits have clearly been designed to exaggerate the differences, but how that works out is mostly random. (You can easily pay an extra $200 for a vintage tube that, when it was new, sold for 50 CENTS more than another brand, or maybe 50 cents LESS, simply because some reviewer is convinced it sounds better in his amplifier. And the sad reality is that, even if it really did sound better in his amp, and of course according to his personal tastes, it's pure random chance whether it will sound better in YOURS, unless you have the exact same model. Therefore, you might as well try a handful of $10 tubes from eBay - and, with luck, in your amp, one of them will sound better than the $200 one.) The best place to start dabbling would be a low-cost tube preamp kit from a reputable vendor - and select one that uses commonly (and cheaply) available tubes - like the venerable 12AU7 and 12AX7 and their modern equivalents. Theoretical question  If one wanted to dabble with the "tube sound", would it be better to use a solidstate pre-amp and buy a tube amp, or buy a tube pre-amp and use a solid state amp? I realize that's an artificial restriction, but I wonder if I can get the tube sound by just using a tube pre-amp since they seem a lot cheaper than a good tube amp. Thanks Keith, that was very informative. Guess I might try a tube pre-amp someday though I'm quite happy with the current Big Ego as well. |
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Post by novisnick on Apr 7, 2016 11:15:09 GMT -5
The difference between a tube power amp and an equivalent solid state one is likely to be much greater than the difference between preamps. (You can spend a lot of money and end up with one that sounds pretty bad.) A tube preamp is much more likely to add just a tiny bit of "smoothness" or "sparkle"; while a tube power amp is almost certain to have somewhat muddy bass (in addition to that); and some are deliberately designed to sound "distinctly tubey". The other thing is that, even though low-powered tube power amps are already somewhat expensive, the price rises VERY rapidly when you look at higher-powered ones. I would strongly suggest going with a tube preamp and a solid state power amp. (While a neutral solid state power amp obviously isn't going to ADD any "tube sound", it's not going to remove any tube sound added by the preamp, and it will deliver plenty of clean bass. And, if you decide that the tube sound doesn't really send you, you've still got a nice neutral power amp, which you can use with a different preamp. Or, alternately, if you decide you really like the sound of your tube preamp, it will sound pretty much the same with any neutral sounding solid state amp.) You do need to differentiate WHICH PART of "the tube sound" you're actually looking for..... * The slight "sparkle" or "shimmer" or "smoothness" is typically considered to be due to the higher levels of second harmonic distortion (and you get that with a preamp or a power amp). * The gradually increasing distortion (monotonic distortion curve) is present in both, but is more noticeable with tube power amps. That's the part that causes tube amps to seem slightly more powerful than what the specs would indicate - and some people say makes them sound "more dynamic". Unfortunately, the fact that a 20 watt tube amp sounds as powerful as a 40 watt solid state amp must be considered in light of the fact that you can probably get a 100 watt solid state power amp for less cost than a 20 watt tube amp. * The "smooth" or "loose" sounding bass is a function of damping factor - and so is mostly a characteristic of tube power amps. Most tube preamps won't won't add any of that at all. Tube preamps are also easier to design than tube power amps, and a lot cheaper to build, which means that they're more likely to work well; and they use cheaper tubes that don't tend to wear out as often (if ever). Incidentally, take all the endless chatter about this or that tube sounding hugely different with grain of salt. Tubes were originally designed as a commodity item - and most of the current attitude towards vintage tubes is... err... somewhere between "highly exaggerated" and "just plain silly". Yes, different brands and even factory runs of tubes can have slightly different electrical characteristics, which can cause them to sound slightly different in a given circuit, and some circuits have clearly been designed to exaggerate the differences, but how that works out is mostly random. (You can easily pay an extra $200 for a vintage tube that, when it was new, sold for 50 CENTS more than another brand, or maybe 50 cents LESS, simply because some reviewer is convinced it sounds better in his amplifier. And the sad reality is that, even if it really did sound better in his amp, and of course according to his personal tastes, it's pure random chance whether it will sound better in YOURS, unless you have the exact same model. Therefore, you might as well try a handful of $10 tubes from eBay - and, with luck, in your amp, one of them will sound better than the $200 one.) The best place to start dabbling would be a low-cost tube preamp kit from a reputable vendor - and select one that uses commonly (and cheaply) available tubes - like the venerable 12AU7 and 12AX7 and their modern equivalents. Thanks Keith, that was very informative. Guess I might try a tube pre-amp someday though I'm quite happy with the current Big Ego as well. Yes! KeithL has been a great source of information!! |
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Post by yves on Apr 7, 2016 14:59:57 GMT -5
My Eastern Electric MiniMax Tube DAC Supreme uses only a single 12AU7 tube so it doesn't generate much heat. What's more, the tube can be disabled, without cancelling the playback process as a result, at the flick of a button on the front panel of the DAC because the DAC has two whole gain stages instead of only one (one gain stage is fully Tube based, the other one uses Solid State). Sorry my friend, I was strictly speaking of the heat of a tube amp, 350*f pouring off of them is a little much for me. Thanks for the response though! I know that's what you were speaking of. My point was I didn't have to get into tube power amps to still be able to enjoy good tube sound, as IMO the XPA-2 does very nicely indeed let through the tube goodness. |
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Post by novisnick on Apr 7, 2016 15:21:49 GMT -5
Sorry my friend, I was strictly speaking of the heat of a tube amp, 350*f pouring off of them is a little much for me. Thanks for the response though! I know that's what you were speaking of. My point was I didn't have to get into tube power amps to still be able to enjoy good tube sound, as IMO the XPA-2 does very nicely indeed let through the tube goodness. I think we've missed each others point,,,,,he,,,,,he,,,,,,,, mine was the same point as yours, don't need tube amps to get what i want. Im looking at other sources for my tube fix!! perhaps , a tube Pre or phono pre amp.  |
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Post by yves on Apr 7, 2016 15:39:19 GMT -5
I know that's what you were speaking of. My point was I didn't have to get into tube power amps to still be able to enjoy good tube sound, as IMO the XPA-2 does very nicely indeed let through the tube goodness. I think we've missed each others point,,,,,he,,,,,he,,,,,,,, mine was the same point as yours, don't need tube amps to get what i want. Im looking at other sources for my tube fix!! perhaps , a tube Pre or phono pre amp. Well, here it is... www.morningstaraudio.com/product/eastern-electric-minimax-phonostage-preamplifier  |
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Post by novisnick on Apr 7, 2016 16:30:35 GMT -5
I think we've missed each others point,,,,,he,,,,,he,,,,,,,, mine was the same point as yours, don't need tube amps to get what i want. Im looking at other sources for my tube fix!! perhaps , a tube Pre or phono pre amp. Well, here it is... www.morningstaraudio.com/product/eastern-electric-minimax-phonostage-preamplifier Where can I find feedback/reviews of this product? Thanks for the link! |
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Post by yves on Apr 8, 2016 0:59:23 GMT -5
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Post by bluemeanies on Apr 8, 2016 12:23:04 GMT -5
Theoretical question ;) If one wanted to dabble with the "tube sound", would it be better to use a solidstate pre-amp and buy a tube amp, or buy a tube pre-amp and use a solid state amp? I realize that's an artificial restriction, but I wonder if I can get the tube sound by just using a tube pre-amp since they seem a lot cheaper than a good tube amp. The issue, with me, about tube amps is the heat! Period!! Small cave, poor heat dispersal. Unless I want a very steep electric bill. Hello nick, Glad to see you still researching. Let me be frank here. You have a very nice system. Tubes and SS are different animals. People like them or not...just like people like or strongly dislike B&W speakers. I have been chided many times b/c I own B&W. They are over priced, to bright, overrated are but a few remarks. IMO tubes have a totally different sound than SS. There is nothing wrong with SS if that's what you like. I do not believe Emotiva amplifiers come close in sound to a good tube amplifier. I read that Bob Carver had developed "Sonic Holography" which when use as reverse phasing might mimick a tube amplifier. It has been some time that I have read the review. The idea you have to get involved in tubes seems to be problematic for you. Heat, cost of tubes, bias, oh yea that horrible distortion. Why would you want tubes that have distortions when you have the purity of SS. All of which comes into play with tubes. Like everything in life people exaggerate and I have read it on the forum as you have. If tubes are so HOT, so DISTORTED, with listening to 2channel how does that reflect on the hundreds of thousands of tube amplifier sold. I think nick you need to stick with SS. People who are pro tubes and know what they are talking about b/c they have knowledge and education about tube amplification with 2channel stereo have given you good, HONEST no BS answers and guidance. It isn't a matter of heat, or distortion it a matter of making a change and some people cannot make that change. listen to yourself |
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Post by novisnick on Apr 8, 2016 13:15:10 GMT -5
The issue, with me, about tube amps is the heat! Period!! Small cave, poor heat dispersal. Unless I want a very steep electric bill. Hello nick, Glad to see you still researching. Let me be frank here. You have a very nice system. Tubes and SS are different animals. People like them or not...just like people like or strongly dislike B&W speakers. I have been chided many times b/c I own B&W. They are over priced, to bright, overrated are but a few remarks. IMO tubes have a totally different sound than SS. There is nothing wrong with SS if that's what you like. I do not believe Emotiva amplifiers come close in sound to a good tube amplifier. I read that Bob Carver had developed "Sonic Holography" which when use as reverse phasing might mimick a tube amplifier. It has been some time that I have read the review. The idea you have to get involved in tubes seems to be problematic for you. Heat, cost of tubes, bias, oh yea that horrible distortion. Why would you want tubes that have distortions when you have the purity of SS. All of which comes into play with tubes. Like everything in life people exaggerate and I have read it on the forum as you have. If tubes are so HOT, so DISTORTED, with listening to 2channel how does that reflect on the hundreds of thousands of tube amplifier sold. I think nick you need to stick with SS. People who are pro tubes and know what they are talking about b/c they have knowledge and education about tube amplification with 2channel stereo have given you good, HONEST no BS answers and guidance. It isn't a matter of heat, or distortion it a matter of making a change and some people cannot make that change. listen to yourself Evidently you've missed a few points my friend! I do and have been enjoying the sound of a wonderful tube pre amp, McIntosh C 220, LOVE the sound of the phono side, im sure with the original tubes reinstalled I would enjoy the digital side just as much. I don't believe I need new amps to enjoy the goodness that tubes will bring to my ear! Thats the most important part,,,,,,," my ears ", right?,,,, ,,,, Right! Im not sure why you think that I can't have it both ways.  Why can't I ?? For now, in a smallish room, I wouldn't be listening for long if I was uncomfortable. My amps are surly not a cause of any problem in the reproduction of music. They are very musical and bring all the dynamics and bass you/I could ever want. So, I don't get why I shouldn't go down the road I'm headed, tube pre amp and or tube phono pre amp. What say you?  |
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Post by bluemeanies on Apr 8, 2016 14:30:32 GMT -5
Hello nick, Glad to see you still researching. Let me be frank here. You have a very nice system. Tubes and SS are different animals. People like them or not...just like people like or strongly dislike B&W speakers. I have been chided many times b/c I own B&W. They are over priced, to bright, overrated are but a few remarks. IMO tubes have a totally different sound than SS. There is nothing wrong with SS if that's what you like. I do not believe Emotiva amplifiers come close in sound to a good tube amplifier. I read that Bob Carver had developed "Sonic Holography" which when use as reverse phasing might mimick a tube amplifier. It has been some time that I have read the review. The idea you have to get involved in tubes seems to be problematic for you. Heat, cost of tubes, bias, oh yea that horrible distortion. Why would you want tubes that have distortions when you have the purity of SS. All of which comes into play with tubes. Like everything in life people exaggerate and I have read it on the forum as you have. If tubes are so HOT, so DISTORTED, with listening to 2channel how does that reflect on the hundreds of thousands of tube amplifier sold. I think nick you need to stick with SS. People who are pro tubes and know what they are talking about b/c they have knowledge and education about tube amplification with 2channel stereo have given you good, HONEST no BS answers and guidance. It isn't a matter of heat, or distortion it a matter of making a change and some people cannot make that change. listen to yourself Evidently you've missed a few points my friend! :) I do and have been enjoying the sound of a wonderful tube pre amp, McIntosh C 220, LOVE the sound of the phono side, im sure with the original tubes reinstalled I would enjoy the digital side just as much. I don't believe I need new amps to enjoy the goodness that tubes will bring to my ear! Thats the most important part,,,,,,," my ears ", right?,,,, :D ,,,, Right! Im not sure why you think that I can't have it both ways. ::) Why can't I ?? For now, in a smallish room, I wouldn't be listening for long if I was uncomfortable. My amps are surly not a cause of any problem in the reproduction of music. They are very musical and bring all the dynamics and bass you/I could ever want. So, I don't get why I shouldn't go down the road I'm headed, tube pre amp and or tube phono pre amp. What say you? 8-) Nick I think the combo of SS and tubes are a good mix. You can go down any road you you want. Perhaps I misunderstood what you are looking for in 2channel. My post was suppose to be broad...tube amplfiers, tune pre. When your comment about tubes being HOT and that your room was small I assumed you were referring to a TUBE amplifier. I never experienced high heat from a tube pre. Maybe I have it wrong. There were posts regarding the purity of your Emotiva amps and from that I was thinking tube amplifier. If your amps are giving you all the musical dynamics and bass, I would leave well enough alone. It sounds like you were impress with the McIntosh so maybe you should keep booms...lol In conclusion I am not sure what your are looking for after reading the advice that people have given you. It all sounds pretty sound advice to me in regards to tubes in any form. The McIntosh should have the the deal. Hope you find what you are looking for Nick. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 8, 2016 14:41:48 GMT -5
If I may take the luxury of putting words in the Nickster's mouth...
Nick LIKES the tube sound of the McIntosh C220 with his phono system (the phono section of the C220 still has the original McIntosh tubes).
Nick is less than bowled over by the line level sound of the C220, where he sends all his digital sources (the line section of the C220 has brand new Genelex Gold Lion tubes, that sound less romantic than the originals).
Nick would like a preamp that provides the "romance" of the C220 phono section with all sources and for a giveaway price.
Alas, he's unlikely to find fulfillment. The "low price" impediment is the greatest. If we put the original McIntosh tubes back into the C220's line section, Nick would have the sound he wants, but even the used McIntosh C220 wouldn't be cheap.
The two best options for Nick to consider are:
1. A tube buffer (the Yaqin SD-CD3 for $180 would do the job)
2. A classic tube preamp with phono stage (although the flabby bass may not be to Nick's taste)
The PrimaLuna preamp is a wonderful one, but it is neither as cheap as Nick wants nor as "romantic" as he wants (although that could be cured with tube rolling).
So in short - there's no free lunch.
Boom
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Post by audiobill on Apr 8, 2016 14:45:24 GMT -5
IMO, the tubes4hifi.com line of preamps _____ all of the above.
And, Boom, you're right, there's no free lunch, but if you want the best sound ........
All this "tube pre, SS power" talk feels like cheaping out to me.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Apr 8, 2016 14:48:34 GMT -5
I would agree that, unless you've heard tube equipment and found that you specifically like the way it sounds, there isn't much reason to head off in that direction. But, to address one of your other comments.... Tubes do make a significant amount of heat - especially big tubes - and tube amps tend to draw significant idle current. However, while the output tubes on a tube amp may run really hot, they occupy a rather small area - while, with a solid state amplifier, the heat sinks that "only run warm" are often quite large. Therefore, while a typical tube amplifier does produce more waste heat than an equivalent solid state amplifier, the difference isn't as great as you might think.... (so a 40 watt per channel tube amp isn't likely to tax your air conditioning too badly). However, you're pretty far off-base with "Sonic Holography". What Sonic Holography does is to "mimic" surround sound with only two speakers by simulating the phase shifts and frequency response variations caused by rear channel sound "wrapping around your head" (the HRTF). What you end up with is the ability for a single pair of stereo speakers to make a fair approximation of surround sound (you think you hear stuff behind you). Since there is no encoder to go with the system, it's making "synthesized surround sound" rather than real surround sound - it just sort of "spreads the sound around" in no particular order. Another drawback is that Sonic Holography is VERY particular about speaker location and the sweet spot; quite literally, if you start out in the exact best sweet spot, even moving your head four or five inches to either side will totally ruin the effect. (They actually recommended positioning your listening seat using a metal tape measure to avoid the inaccuracies caused by the stretching of cloth ones.) However, even outside the sweet spot, it does add a sort of "dimensionality" and "fullness" to some sources - much like Dolby PLIIx does when you play ordinary stereo music through it - which can be rather pleasing. While "Sonic Holography" may in fact sound "nice" with some content, and you may find it pleasing, I wouldn't say that it especially sounds like tubes. It sounds more like running ordinary stereo content through a PLIIx decoder - except that it works without the two extra back speakers. The feature is offered in several vintage Carver solid state preamps, and in the C9 "Sonic Hologram Generator" box, which shows up from time to time on eBay (usually for around $100). Note that the C9 offers two or three adjustment choices, while most of the preamps just have an enable/disable button. If you want to try a device which more closely simulates the way tube equipment sounds (by adding second harmonic distortion), try the Aphex Aural Exciter (which is a pro appliance designed to do just that). It's been around for a very long time (in various incarnations), and has been used in the mastering process for many popular albums over the years. The issue, with me, about tube amps is the heat! Period!! Small cave, poor heat dispersal. Unless I want a very steep electric bill. Hello nick, Glad to see you still researching. Let me be frank here. You have a very nice system. Tubes and SS are different animals. People like them or not...just like people like or strongly dislike B&W speakers. I have been chided many times b/c I own B&W. They are over priced, to bright, overrated are but a few remarks. IMO tubes have a totally different sound than SS. There is nothing wrong with SS if that's what you like. I do not believe Emotiva amplifiers come close in sound to a good tube amplifier. I read that Bob Carver had developed "Sonic Holography" which when use as reverse phasing might mimick a tube amplifier. It has been some time that I have read the review. The idea you have to get involved in tubes seems to be problematic for you. Heat, cost of tubes, bias, oh yea that horrible distortion. Why would you want tubes that have distortions when you have the purity of SS. All of which comes into play with tubes. Like everything in life people exaggerate and I have read it on the forum as you have. If tubes are so HOT, so DISTORTED, with listening to 2channel how does that reflect on the hundreds of thousands of tube amplifier sold. I think nick you need to stick with SS. People who are pro tubes and know what they are talking about b/c they have knowledge and education about tube amplification with 2channel stereo have given you good, HONEST no BS answers and guidance. It isn't a matter of heat, or distortion it a matter of making a change and some people cannot make that change. listen to yourself |
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 8, 2016 15:28:24 GMT -5
IMO, the tubes4hifi.com line of preamps _____ all of the above. And, Boom, you're right, there's no free lunch, but if you want the best sound ........ All this "tube pre, SS power" talk feels like cheaping out to me. Hi audiobill - You've probably compared more tube gear in the past two decades than I, so I'll believe you when you recommend the tubes4hifi stuff. However, I strongly disagree that "tube pre, SS power" is "cheaping out." To the contrary, I consider it the best of both worlds. Some speakers like tube power, I'll admit, and for those (relatively few) speakers, then a tube power amp is justified. However, most solid-state amps have lower distortion, lower noise, better neutrality, and much ( much) higher damping factor than tube amps. IMHO, it's a matter of using the "right tool for the job." I like tube preamps due to their low heat generation, longer tube life, and (through tube rolling) inexpensively adjustable sound. Re-tubing a power amp is an order of magnitude more money than re-tubing a preamp. If I can get as good a sound as I do from an Emotiva power amp (and it is REALLY good sound), then I'm perfectly happy using a tube preamp to get where I want to go. Yes, my speakers MIGHT really like a tube power amp. Next time I find one at a yard sale, I'll test the theory. But I'm not spending what it would cost to try a good tube power amp until I'm more certain that I'll get something out of it (other than a depleted bank account). The last tubed power amp I had in my system (an Audio Research D40) just didn't sound as good as my Emotiva. And Mr. William Zane Johnson's amplifiers were and are considered some of the BEST of the tube products. So we can mostly agree, but my advice (in opposition to yours, unfortunately) is that the tube preamp and solid-stage amp combination is almost always a winning choice. Boomzilla |
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Post by bluemeanies on Apr 8, 2016 15:38:43 GMT -5
If I may take the luxury of putting words in the Nickster's mouth... Nick LIKES the tube sound of the McIntosh C220 with his phono system (the phono section of the C220 still has the original McIntosh tubes). Nick is less than bowled over by the line level sound of the C220, where he sends all his digital sources (the line section of the C220 has brand new Genelex Gold Lion tubes, that sound less romantic than the originals). Nick would like a preamp that provides the "romance" of the C220 phono section with all sources and for a giveaway price. Alas, he's unlikely to find fulfillment. The "low price" impediment is the greatest. If we put the original McIntosh tubes back into the C220's line section, Nick would have the sound he wants, but even the used McIntosh C220 wouldn't be cheap. The two best options for Nick to consider are: 1. A tube buffer (the Yaqin SD-CD3 for $180 would do the job) 2. A classic tube preamp with phono stage (although the flabby bass may not be to Nick's taste) The PrimaLuna preamp is a wonderful one, but it is neither as cheap as Nick wants nor as "romantic" as he wants (although that could be cured with tube rolling). So in short - there's no free lunch. Boom Thanks boom for the clarification. |
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Post by audiobill on Apr 8, 2016 15:53:11 GMT -5
Boom, I understand your views....the D40 was a very ancient design (from 1980 to 1982) and does not represent current designs.
Even ARC has grown since then!
In a home theater, I would use solid state.
Two channel, not so much.
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 8, 2016 15:53:50 GMT -5
Point taken. Actually, what I had was a tube design - the D40.
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Post by yves on Apr 8, 2016 18:37:49 GMT -5
Don't get a tube buffer IMO. A lot of people I know are using tube phono stages, it definately makes sense to my ears. But a good vinyl playback system is more than a good phono stage alone. Even though I absolutely LOVE the sound of the Eastern Electric M156 tube monoblocks, tube power amps don't mate well with a lot of speakers mainly because of the limited damping factor. So, despite the M156 being a TREMENDOUS value IMO (in semi-affordable tube power amplification land, the EL-156 tube is the boss...), the MiniMax Tube Phono Preamplifier has my preference over tube power amplification due to budget constraints and other priorities (moving coil phono cartridge, linear tracking tonearm, belt driven turntable, speed control system, RCM, cleaning fluids,................). Replacing speakers isn't cheap, and I don't have to tell you that Emotiva power amps are a TREMENDOUS value too. That said, why not get *both* the MiniMax Tube Phono Preamp *and* the MiniMax Tube DAC Supreme? I mean, why be satisfied with the best of both worlds when you can have the best of all four worlds? (1 & 2 = both SS + Tube in one DAC, 3 = Tubed Vinyl, 4 = SS power amp).
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If one wanted to dabble with the "tube sound", would it be better to use a solidstate pre-amp and buy a tube amp, or buy a tube pre-amp and use a solid state amp? I realize that's an artificial restriction, but I wonder if I can get the tube sound by just using a tube pre-amp since they seem a lot cheaper than a good tube amp.
Why can't I ??
