XMC-1 with Dirac Unison

[goodfellas27]

Any news on XMC-1 getting Dirac Unison? The Emersa is getting Dirac Live. They should enable Unison on the XMC-1.

[klinemj]

The only mention of Unison so far has been in context of the XMR-1. That's not saying they are not thinking of it for the XMC-1...just saying that's the only mention I have heard.

Mark

[goodfellas27]

I hope it trickles down from the XMR-1. I feel they are somewhat diluting the XMC-1.
I am trying to search for any updates the XMC-1 will get; so far is the HDMI 2.0 board, but no dates on that yet.

[klinemj]

I don't really feel they are diluting the XMC-1. The Emersa seems to have less functionality overall than the XMC-1, and it may be fine for some people. But, I suspect there will be people who will choose the XMC-1 over the Emersa option. And, when we see the UMC-200 replacement, I suspect it will have even less functionality than the XMC-1 & the Emersa.

In any case, I would like to see what Unison really does beyond Dirac. It sounds like a good thing in principle, and I love Dirac. If it is really awesome, I would also be interested in having it on my XMC-1. I don't know if it requires any more computing power on the XMC-1 or not. If it did, with any luck, maybe it would only require a change to the Dirac board and might be reasonably low cost. If not, there's always the XMR-1 and my 25% off "Upgrade for life"!

Mark

[cwt]

Mar 17, 2016 14:18:30 GMT -5 klinemj said:

I don't really feel they are diluting the XMC-1. The Emersa seems to have less functionality overall than the XMC-1, and it may be fine for some people. But, I suspect there will be people who will choose the XMC-1 over the Emersa option. And, when we see the UMC-200 replacement, I suspect it will have even less functionality than the XMC-1 & the Emersa.

In any case, I would like to see what Unison really does beyond Dirac. It sounds like a good thing in principle, and I love Dirac. If it is really awesome, I would also be interested in having it on my XMC-1. I don't know if it requires any more computing power on the XMC-1 or not. If it did, with any luck, maybe it would only require a change to the Dirac board and might be reasonably low cost. If not, there's always the XMR-1 and my 25% off "Upgrade for life"!

Mark

I hope unison trickles down to the xmc1 Mark [if only to give it more uniqueness] but it sounds like it may need the extra grunt of the xmr1's 4? dsp chips to handle the increasingly complex bass management . It will need that grunt to 'replace' room treatments as they make note of below
below

With Dirac Unison, the loudspeakers and listening space are treated as a cohesive unit, rather than as individual elements that interfere with one another. This innovative solution enables speakers within a system to work together to optimally reproduce each input channel
– something that was previously impossible.Dirac Unison also features a completely new kind of bass management that automatically adapts to the room and speakers

By co-optimizing all speakers, Dirac Unison® makes it possible to change room reflections, impulse responses and modal patterns in ways that can only in theory be matched by an ideal passive room treatment installation.

It will come down to sound quality between the emp1 and xmc1 as to popularity as 2ch reproduction is what the xmc1 has in its favour where multichannel is the trend these days . I put more stock in 4 in 2 out hdmi2.0 with hdcp 2.2 [ upgrade to 2.0a or is it already ? its a new chipset] than waiting for a full xmc1 card on a promise [ considering time lines]. The loss of the balanced outputs [ and i like the solid click of an xlr ] is something I can foregoe for the price differential as many will I suspect ..

Other thing I noticed in Dans audioholics interview from CES was the modularity of the new class D emersa amp's . Nice to possibly send a light [for UPS] 5ch or less for a 7ch upgrade if feasible

[Jim]

Mar 17, 2016 10:26:41 GMT -5 klinemj said:

The only mention of Unison so far has been in context of the XMR-1. That's not saying they are not thinking of it for the XMC-1...just saying that's the only mention I have heard.

Mark

I wonder if Unison is a CPU hog and perhaps the XMC doesn't have the capability. (This isn't based on any actual facts)

Depending on what Unison needs........... it might be substantial processing capability.

[klinemj]

I wonder the same thing.

Mark

[Lsc]

I'd guess the CPU power needed is in the algorithm which happens on the laptop or desktop computer. And only the filters are passed to the XMC-1 like Dirac Live.

I'm hoping this is the case.

[goodfellas27]

Mar 18, 2016 10:11:30 GMT -5 Lsc said:

I'd guess the CPU power needed is in the algorithm which happens on the laptop or desktop computer. And only the filters are passed to the XMC-1 like Dirac Live.

I'm hoping this is the case.

the problem might be the CPU in the XMC-1. With Dirac on, audio stream is cap to 48Khz. Anything above that it's downgraded to 48. I am hoping that Unison is able to run on the XMC-1. Emotiva needs to provide an upgrade path for the unit.

Anyone know anything else coming down the pipe for XMC-1?

[Lsc]

Mar 18, 2016 14:36:41 GMT -5 goodfellas27 said:

Mar 18, 2016 10:11:30 GMT -5 Lsc said:

I'd guess the CPU power needed is in the algorithm which happens on the laptop or desktop computer. And only the filters are passed to the XMC-1 like Dirac Live.

I'm hoping this is the case.

the problem might be the CPU in the XMC-1. With Dirac on, audio stream is cap to 48Khz. Anything above that it's downgraded to 48. I am hoping that Unison is able to run on the XMC-1. Emotiva needs to provide an upgrade path for the unit.

Anyone know anything else coming down the pipe for XMC-1?

I don't think this is a hardware limitation vs a license limitation. I'd venture to bet that Theta pays more for their license per unit to get the higher bit rate.

[cwt]

Mar 18, 2016 10:11:30 GMT -5 Lsc said:

I'd guess the CPU power needed is in the algorithm which happens on the laptop or desktop computer. And only the filters are passed to the XMC-1 like Dirac Live.

I'm hoping this is the case.

Hope your right but considering the quote taken from dirac I posted above [that presumably replaces the standard crossovers and slopes of regular bass management ] I can only see this adding to the dsp horsepower needed in the xmc1 ; does not seem feasible outboard - nature of bass management

Never know though maybe there will be a pcb upgrade if needed ; I think a few hundred dollars or more [compared to the opposition] would be good value for unison or a few more dsp modes ; auro3d does a better job than dsu for music is the concensus It may be easier to retrofit than the object based codecs . Cant see anything happening on this front while the emersa and x lines are in the pipelines but .. Whats 1st in line xmc1 enhancements or the xmr1 ? wish I knew

– something that was previously impossible.Dirac Unison also features a completely new kind of bass management that automatically adapts to the room and speakers

[bootman]

I would be OK with a paid upgrade if available.
But I have to be honest here, the XMC in my room sounds so good, the only way I see to improve it would be to get better speakers vs getting a different room EQ.

But I'm not against making it available as an add on.

[sandiway]

If it's not a hardware limitation, I'd like Dirac Live running at 96kHz/24bits on my XMC-1. Make it an upgrade.

[goodfellas27]

Mar 21, 2016 1:29:03 GMT -5 sandiway said:

If it's not a hardware limitation, I'd like Dirac Live running at 96kHz/24bits on my XMC-1. Make it an upgrade.

Maybe they could do it in stereo, if the CPU can't handle 7 channels at 96K

[goodfellas27]

The MiniDSP DDRC-88A is also doing 48kHz. It's a dedicated box. 

[etc6849]

Please do this if possible. I'd easily pay $200 to have bass management integrated into the XMC-1's Dirac offering.

Why have a crossover OUTSIDE of Dirac's software that calculates the filters? It has potential to mess up in the crossover region what Dirac has done to fix phase and amplitude.  I like the idea of letting Dirac handle bass management, it should give a much better end result.

Seems this is a great opportunity to fix one of the only "flaws" the XMC-1 has (if this qualifies as a flaw).

[fbczar]

Mar 21, 2016 9:01:16 GMT -5 goodfellas27 said:

Mar 21, 2016 1:29:03 GMT -5 sandiway said:

If it's not a hardware limitation, I'd like Dirac Live running at 96kHz/24bits on my XMC-1. Make it an upgrade.

Maybe they could do it in stereo, if the CPU can't handle 7 channels at 96K

Great idea!

[millst]

The XMC-1 does apply the crossover to each input channel before sending it to Dirac for room correction. That is the best way. Applying the crossover after Dirac would result in filters calculated for the main channels being applied to the subwoofer. That is wrong.

Better management of multiple subs is what many have requested. Similar to Sub EQ HT.

-tm

[millst]

I thought the whole point of unison was to use many channels to improve the sound. Seems like it would be useless when constricted to two channels.

-tm

[etc6849]

EDIT:  you are right, found the post here from Ray:  emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/739092/thread

Still though, Dirac is performed on each channel separately WITHOUT using the crossover information, in other words, the Dirac software receives NO information about the crossover settings from the XMC-1.

Why do you think all of us have flat phase except near the crossover point if it works as you suggest?  Don't get me wrong, you can pick a decent crossover freq combo but you will have some phase issues and you can't adjust subwoofer distance when using Dirac preset (which is also a non-ideal implementation).

Here are some real measurements so you can see for yourself the phase issues that crop up when using different crossover slopes for the subs:  drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B1J0a4OV_WGLS2lYYl85N1BRNkE

Download REW and open the CROSSOVER TESTS file from the link above.

Mar 25, 2016 9:48:36 GMT -5 millst said:

The XMC-1 does apply the crossover to each input channel before sending it to Dirac for room correction. That is the best way. Applying the crossover after Dirac would result in filters calculated for the main channels being applied to the subwoofer. That is wrong.

Better management of multiple subs is what many have requested. Similar to Sub EQ HT.

-tm