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Post by garbulky on Mar 23, 2016 15:02:29 GMT -5
That would go great with my Pentium 4!  |
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Post by Jim on Mar 23, 2016 16:21:02 GMT -5
I don't want to side track the discussion too much - but I think the only real thing the XPA power supply will have in common with a PC power supply is the essential topology.
PC power supplies are meant to be pretty dumb - and PCs normally have a relatively short life cycle. Most PCs can tolerate a pretty crappy power supply. It's just when voltage sags that you really see much. Some are awfully noisy - and you still get by.
It's like comparing a lawn mower to a car... They both have engines.
Some industrial SMPS are really quite rubust/well engineered. They also cost quite a bit more.
The current requirements for the XPA Gen 3 are going to require some solid (not cheap) components.
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Post by DavidR on Mar 23, 2016 16:23:20 GMT -5
I don't want to side track the discussion too much - but I think the only real thing the XPA power supply will have in common with a PC power supply is the essential topology. PC power supplies are meant to be pretty dumb - and PCs normally have a relatively short life cycle. Most PCs can tolerate a pretty crappy power supply. It's just when voltage sags that you really see much. Some are awfully noisy - and you still get by. It's like comparing a lawn mower to a car... They both have engines. Some industrial SMPS are really quite rubust/well engineered. They also cost quite a bit more. Amen |
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Post by mgbpuff on Mar 23, 2016 16:52:15 GMT -5
Give me the big heavy amp. Fewer parts means it will last longer (damn near forever as I have a 50 + year old Marantz 8b all original). I'm 74 years old and I can still lift 200lbs. Thieves will bypass the really heavy monsters.
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Post by rbk123 on Mar 23, 2016 20:56:25 GMT -5
Most PC power supplies go bad because of overheating due to 2 factors:
- location with poor air flow
- dust accumulation insulating the heat in
I have 5 PC's in my house, 1 with an expensive power supply, 4 with cheapies that were either free after rebate or close to it. Every year I blow the dust out of the power supplies, motherboards, and intake screens and I've never lost a supply yet or a part on any of the computers gone bad. They are all easily 6 years old or older now. SMPS are more sensitive to overheating; eliminate that problem and they are very reliable.
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Post by Gary Cook on Mar 23, 2016 21:28:21 GMT -5
As previously posted, the way I see it an SMPS is a gamble in a power amplifier with high current and voltage demands, tight tolerances for noise and the long life that power amplifiers typically have. A linear power supply in a quality amplifier, like the XPA Gen 1 & 2 , is not anywhere near that level of risk. An SMPS may well turn out to be a small risk, but it's still a risk, one that we don't currently have to take. Then there is the cost of having to return a Gen 3 to Franklin for servicing, warranty and/or upgrades. Maybe not such a big deal for US customers but one hell of a downside for us internationals.
As for the modular design being an advancement it's quite frankly wasted on me due to the freight costs inherent in taking advantage of it. In addition I'm paying extra for the "upgradeability" (that I can't economically use) in cabling, connectors, excessive power supply capability, the case itself plus other hardware. From the international buyer's perspective the modular design is more of a disadvantage than an advantage.
Another question I ask myself, why no Gen 3 XPA-1? If the Gen 3 design is so good, so much of a step forward, then surely (with the demise of the XPR-1) the premier Emotiva monoblock deserves to be included.
No matter how many times I look at it, even through Emotiva blue coloured glasses, I just don't see any attraction in XPA Gen3's. On the other hand I see plenty of downsides and/or risks that there is no incentive for me to take. And that's before I get into the price.
Cheers
Gary
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Post by bolle on Mar 24, 2016 2:23:40 GMT -5
Most PC power supplies go bad because of overheating due to 2 factors: - location with poor air flow - dust accumulation insulating the heat in I have 5 PC's in my house, 1 with an expensive power supply, 4 with cheapies that were either free after rebate or close to it. Every year I blow the dust out of the power supplies, motherboards, and intake screens and I've never lost a supply yet or a part on any of the computers gone bad. They are all easily 6 years old or older now. SMPS are more sensitive to overheating; eliminate that problem and they are very reliable. Not my experience. I think it also depends on your usage scenario. If you only use the PC for browsing and light work, it might be fine. Gaming is something different, overclocking also. A lot of the cheap PSUs on the market are overrated, have terrible ripple supression, have out of spec peaks during rise time, el cheapo caps from china etc. I clean all my computers regularly and have cases with additional fans and optimized airflow. |
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Post by rbk123 on Mar 24, 2016 8:05:25 GMT -5
All my PC's are overclocked, with my Q6600 at 3.4G since 4/11/08. The cheap PSU fear is way overblown if they're taken care of. How much longer lasting will the Emo PSU be, with it being the opposite of cheap China PSU?
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Mar 24, 2016 9:10:35 GMT -5
Seriously, what's all this talk about PC builds? LOL
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Post by mshump on Mar 24, 2016 9:12:50 GMT -5
Seriously, what's all this talk about PC builds? LOL  Mark |
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Post by geebo on Mar 24, 2016 9:18:28 GMT -5
As previously posted, the way I see it an SMPS is a gamble in a power amplifier with high current and voltage demands, tight tolerances for noise and the long life that power amplifiers typically have. A linear power supply in a quality amplifier, like the XPA Gen 1 & 2 , is not anywhere near that level of risk. An SMPS may well turn out to be a small risk, but it's still a risk, one that we don't currently have to take. Then there is the cost of having to return a Gen 3 to Franklin for servicing, warranty and/or upgrades. Maybe not such a big deal for US customers but one hell of a downside for us internationals. As for the modular design being an advancement it's quite frankly wasted on me due to the freight costs inherent in taking advantage of it. In addition I'm paying extra for the "upgradeability" (that I can't economically use) in cabling, connectors, excessive power supply capability, the case itself plus other hardware. From the international buyer's perspective the modular design is more of a disadvantage than an advantage. Another question I ask myself, why no Gen 3 XPA-1? If the Gen 3 design is so good, so much of a step forward, then surely (with the demise of the XPR-1) the premier Emotiva monoblock deserves to be included. No matter how many times I look at it, even through Emotiva blue coloured glasses, I just don't see any attraction in XPA Gen3's. On the other hand I see plenty of downsides and/or risks that there is no incentive for me to take. And that's before I get into the price. Cheers Gary The XPA-1 is staying in the line for now. It has much greater output and is also Class A for the first 60 watts. And the current Gen 3 modules just aren't capable class A or 600 watts into 8 ohms and 1,000 watts into 4 ohms. I'd also bet the the Gen 3 power supply couldn't keep up with that kind of output, either. It would/will require a completely different PS and amp module. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Mar 24, 2016 9:31:25 GMT -5
Another question I ask myself, why no Gen 3 XPA-1? If the Gen 3 design is so good, so much of a step forward, then surely (with the demise of the XPR-1) the premier Emotiva monoblock deserves to be included. From what has been announced there will at some point be an equivalent of the XPA-1. An XPA G3 with a single, double wide, fully balanced module would be a mono block with roughly the same capabilities as an XPA-1 (as noted, probably without the high Class A capabilities). If that becomes a popular configuration it could signal the end of the XPA-1 G2. |
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Post by garbulky on Mar 24, 2016 9:32:15 GMT -5
Well they will have monoblock blades or at least what they call a double wide which I think is fully balanecd. However if you want the class A power of an XPA-1 the XPA-1 consumes more than 200 watts at idle. This means that switcher has to continuously provide that current even when the amp is not doing anything. Now maybe that's not a problem for the SP, I'm not an engineer, but I'm guessing it may not be good for it.
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Post by mgbpuff on Mar 24, 2016 9:50:15 GMT -5
I have the XPA-1 gen 1 monoblocks. They don't put out much heat at idle (or running for that matter). The gen 1 only goes up to 10 watts in Class A. Frankly I think the Gen2 at 60 watts in Class A is too far biased into Class A and I'm very glad I have the original version.
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Post by garbulky on Mar 24, 2016 9:56:04 GMT -5
I have the XPA-1 gen 1 monoblocks. They don't put out much heat at idle (or running for that matter). The gen 1 only goes up to 10 watts in Class A. Frankly I think the Gen2 at 60 watts in Class A is too far biased into Class A and I'm very glad I have the original version. I haven't heard the gen 1 but over time...I wasn't sure at first, I really like the class A. However I do appreciate the class a, AB switch for when it's idle. Too much power draw. |
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Post by gzubeck on Mar 24, 2016 21:09:36 GMT -5
Glad i started a controversial debate and in the long run it will provide the consumer the necessary info for an informed decision.
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Post by jackpine on Mar 25, 2016 12:26:43 GMT -5
Pardon if this has been posted already. The Gen3 amps are listed for for sale at $100 off each model. Could be an introductory sale or maybe Emotiva paid attention to all the bitching about price.
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Post by familyguy on Mar 26, 2016 19:02:44 GMT -5
I haven't been paying much attention to Emo lately so pardon my late commentary. I'm looking at the new Gen3 amp prices and comparing that to the old Gen2 prices. I'm also looking at all the hand waving around "2 channels driven" versus the previous ALL channels driven. Shouldn't a design that goes to a shared switching power supply SAVE money and result in lower prices for us customers? Why not have an option to provide a power supply "upgrade" that can supply all channels enough juice to deliver rated power simultaneously? (not that I'd ever do that...but being an audio enthusiast is kinda like being a car enthusiast...you ask these questions "just because"....I might never drive 190mph, but why are you electronically limiting my max speed to X when the car is capable of X + 20%...etc)  Again, I'm late to the game....if there's some other thread that goes into the details of why this might make sense, please share. Thanks! |
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Javs
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Post by Javs on Mar 26, 2016 23:40:52 GMT -5
I haven't been paying much attention to Emo lately so pardon my late commentary. I'm looking at the new Gen3 amp prices and comparing that to the old Gen2 prices. I'm also looking at all the hand waving around "2 channels driven" versus the previous ALL channels driven. Shouldn't a design that goes to a shared switching power supply SAVE money and result in lower prices for us customers? Why not have an option to provide a power supply "upgrade" that can supply all channels enough juice to deliver rated power simultaneously? (not that I'd ever do that...but being an audio enthusiast is kinda like being a car enthusiast...you ask these questions "just because"....I might never drive 190mph, but why are you electronically limiting my max speed to X when the car is capable of X + 20%...etc) Again, I'm late to the game....if there's some other thread that goes into the details of why this might make sense, please share. Thanks! You should probably have another look at the specs page properly... I see power ratings everywhere, all channels driver, two channels driven and also the singular channel module max power ratings... I dont know if they just added that in the last four hours but the info is there... I am really glad I got my Gen 2 XPA-7 though. Would not upgrade to the higher cost units for what these deliver. My XPA-7 does 520 watts in stereo mode into 8ohms and that seems to beat the XPA Gen 3's Stereo specs of only 300 watts/channel in stereo... so go figure. I watch films but also do some good listening and the extra stereo headroom is welcomed. Weather or not the new class H amps effeciency totally negates all of that difference is another matter What does seem to be missing though from that page is All Channels Driven into 4ohms. |
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Post by jamco on Mar 27, 2016 17:51:14 GMT -5
What concerns me is that there will be no high quality solutions under $500 dollars. Im using the mini- a100 and would like to see something a little beefier and cleaner for two channel setups but im not sure we will see anything like that going forward. I would like to remind emotiva that continuing to raise prices is going to send alot of customers looking elswhere. My perception is that emotiva is now looking to compete on the factory direct high end which saves you 25-50% of retail prices. You are now competing with every high end manufacturer in the marketplace when your prices start at $1000. Even your $500 two channel amp has alot of competition even on the retail level. I really get the feeling that initial adopters are paying the the r&d on this product. Grasshopper my son, You are assuming the Emotiva is abandoning our core value principles... We are not! As has been rumored here, Emotiva will be showing some VERY exiciting new amplifier and preamplifier products at Axpona with prices starting at $299.00. Keep the faith, we are interested in servicing all of our customers at all price points with high value, great sounding products... Except for the Rolls Royce crowd, that's not us. Although they may find they don't need to spend $10k for a nice amp if they give us a listen Those of you that think we have raised our prices to accommodate dealers are dead wrong. We have taken a margin hit in order to bring the brand to more customers who might never discover us. The new Gen 3 amplifiers are more expensive designs, and IMO, better products the the ones they replace. And they cost more to build. This is why they are more expensive. But, they are MUCH less expensive that any truly competitive product out there. I believe this will be proven once people get their hands on these wonderful new amps. Look at the competition, compare real value for the dollar, and I believe you are going to see that we are staying true to our principles. Cheers, Big Dan Just 19 more days until Axpona... looking forward to learning about the new Emotiva gear!
-jamco
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