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Post by rogersch on Apr 1, 2016 0:48:10 GMT -5
If we have an approved distributor in a given international territory, we will not allow direct sales. Simple. Yeah we get that Dan, but we don't like it. simple. A said before; If you don't like the current international business model of Emotiva go and look for another brand, there is enough choice.... |
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Post by qdtjni on Apr 1, 2016 2:41:26 GMT -5
As an international customer from Europe, I just want to say that I can't be more happy with the way it works now. I also find the general whinging uncalled for. If you don't like the value, you have the freedom of choice to either not buy something at all or buy something from some other vendor. The fact is I can fly from Sydney to Franklin, buy an XMC-1, stick it in my luggage and bring it home cheaper than I can buy one locally from an Australian retailer. I'm just not sure how anyone can think that's somehow OK. Especially when we were told that there would be no price increase going from the direct selling model to a distributor/wholesaler/retailer model. If warranty was a concern, for the price difference I could send my XMC-1 back to Emotiva in Franklin for service 6 times and still be in front. Cheers Gary Fair, enough but my point was that there are international buyers who are happy with how it works for them, me being one of them. Then again we don't have the Oz model here, i.e. no local retailer ripping us off. |
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Post by rbk123 on Apr 1, 2016 6:43:29 GMT -5
I was under the impression some countries had approved distributors but also could order directly, however it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong. I will shut up now.
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Post by Cogito on Apr 1, 2016 7:19:42 GMT -5
If we have an approved distributor in a given international territory, we will not allow direct sales. Simple. Yeah we get that Dan, but we don't like it. simple. Don't buy Emotiva products. Just move on. Simple. |
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Post by smarties on Apr 1, 2016 7:52:16 GMT -5
I think that happens to another internet retailers, SVS subs. You could buy them direct but once UK distributors came about, you could no longe do that.
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Post by mick on Apr 1, 2016 8:32:51 GMT -5
Yeah we get that Dan, but we don't like it. simple. Don't buy Emotiva products. Just move on. Simple. What! that's the you got. lol |
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Post by pedrocols on Apr 1, 2016 9:12:30 GMT -5
Just move to the USA. Simple.
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Apr 1, 2016 9:31:30 GMT -5
I've got to chime in here with a comment..... I agree with you: I would also be unhappy if I lived in a place where everything cost more, and where, apparently, there aren't enough high-quality local manufacturers that you are obligated to shop overseas to get what you want - then pay exorbitant shipping costs. (And, face it, if the shipping costs weren't absurdly high, then your local distributors wouldn't be able to charge high prices - because everyone would just buy everything by mail order.) Here in the US, I pay $100 a year for Amazon Prime, which gets me FREE shipping on everything I buy from them; and it would suck to live somewhere where I couldn't get that. I assume that you continue to live there because there are also benefits to living where you live now. However, the problem is that WE, as a company, can't do much of anything about your local tax rates, or about what shipping companies have decided they have to charge for shipping between here and where you live (or simply what they can get away with), or what your local stores can get away as a mark-up (because they know it costs so much to ship there). Those are complaints that should go to your local government - or to FedEx and UPS - or to your favorite trans-shipper. (And that question may not be as simple as you think; many countries have cheap international shipping because their government subsidizes it.) Unfortunately, there are also standard ways of doing business, and, while they do work well for the majority of customers, they may not always benefit everyone. Many people strongly prefer being able to get warranty (and out-of-warranty) service locally, and most distributors wouldn't be willing to sign up to be distributors if we insisted on selling direct to customers - and so "cutting them out of the loop". They run a business; they pay rent and salaries; and they expect to make a reasonable profit for their trouble. You may not be familiar with the situation here in the US, but we used to have many high-end audio stores where you could listen to various products in person, compare them, and then buy what you liked - and have a local dealer who would support you, and provide service if necessary. However, as mail order became cheaper and more practical, many locals developed the habit of auditioning products at their local "full service dealer", then going home and buying the same product on-line for the lowest price they could find (which was almost always a lot cheaper). As a result, MOST of those high-end audio stores in the US have gone out of business in the last twenty years. (I also remember when the price of a round-trip airline ticket from New York to Sydney cost a lot more than the full price of an XPA-5 - so I guess some things have gotten cheaper for you.) As an international customer from Europe, I just want to say that I can't be more happy with the way it works now. I also find the general whinging uncalled for. If you don't like the value, you have the freedom of choice to either not buy something at all or buy something from some other vendor. The fact is I can fly from Sydney to Franklin, buy an XMC-1, stick it in my luggage and bring it home cheaper than I can buy one locally from an Australian retailer. I'm just not sure how anyone can think that's somehow OK. Especially when we were told that there would be no price increase going from the direct selling model to a distributor/wholesaler/retailer model. If warranty was a concern, for the price difference I could send my XMC-1 back to Emotiva in Franklin for service 6 times and still be in front. Cheers Gary |
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Post by Dan Laufman on Apr 1, 2016 9:43:26 GMT -5
Man, how long can this drag on??
We will always sell direct wherever it is feasible to do so. Right now that is primarily in the USA.
Listen, you have no idea of the heat we take from customers who buy a product from us and ship it internationally and then have a problem. They knew it was going to have to come back to the USA for service if something went wrong, but the reality of that agreement sinks in when they realize the true cost and hassle of doing so. Then they put incredible pressure on us to "make it right". This involves our sending parts and subassemblies all over the world in a "shotgun" attempt to try and fix the unit. Most of the time, it doesn't. Many times we have just given up and sent a new unit and told them to bury the old one in the back yard. They will go to almost any extreme to avoid doing what really must be done to ensure correct and competent support.. that is, send it back. They knew the rules when they bought it, but now they demand "an exception" ... Name the many reason they should be given one on a long list that you can write for yourselves; use your imaginations!
So, after many years of this we came to the decision that we weren't doing anyone any favors moving forward like this. It's not professional and it is ultimately not in the best interest of you, our clients and our friends.
The most logical alternative, because we are not large enough to have direct presence all of the world, is to do what other brands do... have a distributer and retail partners to support and service the products. This is what we have done.
If you don't like it, I am sorry. But this is the best way we know of to run a responsible business that is capable of supporting our international clients in a prompt and professional manner.
If you have a Upgrade for Life it will be honored. If you have your 40% processor discount card it will be honored. We have made arrangements will our international partners to support this commitment to you.
So, let's put an end to this endless discussion, please. I hate to say it, but if you don't like what we have offer, move to another brand. We don't want to lose anyone, but this is the what we have had to do to operate in professional and ethical manner.
Cheers,
Big Dan
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Post by mick on Apr 1, 2016 10:22:18 GMT -5
Dan & Keith,
Just for one minute try and see it from my point of view ok.
If I remember correctly reason you set up international distributors was so we could smell touch and hear the EMO gear before buying correct? As far as warranty goes it would be very unlikely they would service in house, the would contract it out
For me I don’t have a local distributor where I live there are two on the east coast of Australia I live on the west coast which is about 2000 klm from your nearest distributor to me, now I wouldn’t call that local, would you?
As far as I know they also don’t give a 30 day trail period, now please don’t tell me to change brands like others because I like the emo gear I have bought 8 pieces you can check if you like, and I’d like to upgrade, but really don’t want to miss match my system.
I hope you understand where I’m coming in my situation, I’m not local to your Australian distributors
I look forward to your response.
Cheers
Mick
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Apr 1, 2016 10:23:09 GMT -5
It looks very nice - from the literature (functionally; actually, I'm not especially fond of the styling, but, on that... to each his own). And, giving it the benefit of the doubt and assuming that it actually sounds good, I assume you also like the $8900 price tag....  (Which is somewhat more than twice the price of an XMC-1 AND a 7-channel XPA Gen3 amp combined.) That's exactly what I am planning on doing. I just ordered the Gen 3 with three channels to start with. It will power the LCR. After I try it out for 30 days, I plan on getting the Gen 3 with four channels and run 4 long XLR cables down into basement and back up with second amp in rear of room. I prefer this to having one 7 or 11 channel amp that requires more than 15 amps to run it. Still deciding on Anthem AVM-60 or wait for XMR-1 for 3-D sound. Then I must deal with problems installing height speakers in finished ceiling family room or other less desirable alternatives. And lastly, make decision to either get third Gen 3 with 4 channels for height or bump up first two Gen 3s by adding 2 channels per amp (less likely). This is precisely the appeal of these amps for someone moving away from an AVR and moving to separates and power amps with current 7.1 setup, thinking of 3-D sound formats. It adds the flexibility to upgrade in stages and consider house/room constraints. Did you take a look to the Audiocontrol Maestro M9? link It's the surround processor the XMR-1 should be.. |
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Post by wizardofoz on Apr 1, 2016 11:15:35 GMT -5
Man, how long can this drag on?? If you have a Upgrade for Life it will be honored. If you have your 40% processor discount card it will be honored. We have made arrangements will our international partners to support this commitment to you. Cheers, Big Dan Dan, was that really so hard to come out with this state of play after so long and so many asking? Its about time...THANK YOU! now that you given us some insight....perhaps some more in the coming days...I say this because I have always (as I noted when I sat in your office), have a care about Emotiva in Singapore at least and there is a big following here - based on the ID model...I am not so sure about how the existing client base is likely to take this new direction and it will remain to be seen what the sentiment will be. It (UFL) might not change the deals delta on amps and the like, but least for a processor upgrade it is some consolation for being a longer term client. But if the USA - 25% web based price plus shipping and duty to get in your destination market is not on a par because the local prices are so much higher now, then we are still no better off. I'd like to see what an XMC-1 for someone with a 40% off or %25 UFL comes in at for an Australian client as this seems to be the fist of the real overseas locations with such situations likely based on the supply by a local dealer - excluding domestic shipping/return to dealer repairs - which might be a deal breaker in a place with such huge geographic distances. Then of course there are sales prices but lets leave those for now...we wait with baited breath. |
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Post by rbk123 on Apr 1, 2016 11:23:37 GMT -5
Dan & Keith, Just for one minute try and see it from my point of view ok. He obviously knows your point of view and they tried to make that work, however too many of the customers abused the situation so they've halted it. The classic "many ruined it for the few" routine; happens here all the time and sucks. |
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Post by franky on Apr 1, 2016 12:28:34 GMT -5
I'm new to this site and like others am waiting to read some reviews on the XPA-Gen3 before pulling the plug. Was curious as to why Emotiva starting taking pre-orders on the unit before reviews have been done and published. You would think if that was done first there would be a lot more of us placing orders. I am not trying to sound negative just seems backwards to me.
I have read every page and must say I feel sorry for Dan and Emotiva for all the negative B/S and whining, have to say some people need to get a life.
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Post by pedrocols on Apr 1, 2016 12:31:07 GMT -5
I'm new to this site and like others am waiting to read some reviews on the XPA-Gen3 before pulling the plug. Was curious as to why Emotiva starting taking pre-orders on the unit before reviews have been done and published. You would think if that was done first there would be a lot more of us placing orders. I am not trying to sound negative just seems backwards to me. I have read every page and must say I feel sorry for Dan and Emotiva for all the negative B/S and whining, have to say some people need to get a life. They have a convenient 30 days in home trial. That can give you the chance to listen for yourself with your own equipment and environment. I personally take every review with a grain of salt. |
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Post by Bonzo on Apr 1, 2016 12:31:53 GMT -5
the Audiocontrol Maestro M9? link It's the surround processor the XMR-1 should be.. I'm not sure what has happened to this thread, but since it's all over the map already I'll chime in too. Based on my very quick analysis of the spec page, mostly looking at the big details and physical inputs & outputs, I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. This processor doesn't appear to be any more than the XMC-1, except it does the 4 height channels for Atmos etc. In other places it actually has less connection options (although it's hard to tell 100% for sure because I couldn't find a picture to really zoom in). And they both use Dirac. The XMC-1 is great, and this processor might be great also (especially if it has cool features I skipped over), but $6400 more for 4 height channels is ridiculous. This thing is no where near what we have been lead to believe the XMR-1 will be. Not even close. [My "looks" tastes agree with Keith here. This might look good sitting in with McIntosh stuff, but it would look nasty in my rack.]But this brings me back to the point I tried to make in the other thread. Since it was explained to us that the XMC-1 can unfortunately not be easily changed to do 7.2.4 using the existing Zone 2&3 outputs (that would have made the entire middle class audiophile world happy campers), I feel strongly that there needs to be an XMC-2 in the future (nearer rather than later) that simply adds the 4 extra channels and be done with it. The XMR-1 will be killer (if it actually comes to fruition), but for many it will be physical and monetary overkill (If 11 channels is a niche, then 16 is a super niche). The XMC-1 may be great, but it's life span will be cut much shorter without the ability to do Atmos and the like. There are potential work arounds for not having the latest HDMI connections, but there aren't work arounds for a lack of processing capabilities (not that I know of anyway). Whether people actually make use of Atmos and the like or not is not the issue. The issue is that every single other receiver and processor on the market will have the ability, and most people aren't going to buy something that lacks such a key feature. Like it or not, Atmos/DTS:X/Auro is the future. Edit: One more thing. Some people here are going to be pissed for me saying this, but I think it's much more important to make the XMC-2 as stated, and concentrate on making that happen first, rather than spend time on the XMR-1 right now. I think the XMC-2 is much more a bread & butter component than the niche XMR-1 would ever be. If the XMC-1 had the 4 height channel ability right now, all debates/discussions/arguments would be gone. There probably wouldn't be any better optional processor on the market. As I've said before, if Emotiva made the XMC-2, I'd buy it this Christmas for sure. |
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klinemj
Emo VIPs 
Official Emofest Scribe
Posts: 15,090
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Post by klinemj on Apr 1, 2016 12:32:39 GMT -5
I'm new to this site and like others am waiting to read some reviews on the XPA-Gen3 before pulling the plug. Was curious as to why Emotiva starting taking pre-orders on the unit before reviews have been done and published. You would think if that was done first there would be a lot more of us placing orders. I am not trying to sound negative just seems backwards to me. I have read every page and must say I feel sorry for Dan and Emotiva for all the negative B/S and whining, have to say some people need to get a life. Emotiva does not rely on reviews for sales as there is a loyal following and they have a 30 day return policy. Not many return gear once it arrives, though... So that in itself is a review! Reviews, both pro and user-provided will come along soon if you need to see one. .Mark |
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Post by geebo on Apr 1, 2016 12:40:06 GMT -5
I'm new to this site and like others am waiting to read some reviews on the XPA-Gen3 before pulling the plug. Was curious as to why Emotiva starting taking pre-orders on the unit before reviews have been done and published. You would think if that was done first there would be a lot more of us placing orders. I am not trying to sound negative just seems backwards to me. I have read every page and must say I feel sorry for Dan and Emotiva for all the negative B/S and whining, have to say some people need to get a life. Welcome to the Lounge! You can can review the amp yourself for 30 days and then return it if you don't like it. |
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Post by smarties on Apr 1, 2016 12:59:16 GMT -5
Just move to the USA. Simple. Get cancer or other serious illness and you're screwed though. |
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Post by pedrocols on Apr 1, 2016 13:00:27 GMT -5
Just move to the USA. Simple. Get cancer or other serious illness and you're screwed though. I thought either way we still screwed.... |
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