gabe
Minor Hero
Posts: 56 
|
Post by gabe on Apr 16, 2016 17:16:26 GMT -5
I was over at Dirac's' site looking at the instructions for Dirac live. I was thinking if I read the instructions from another source maybe I could see the operation of the system differently and figure out what I (may) be doing wrong. Has anyone looked at the additional features if you purchase "Live" directly from Dirac? Like saving four different target curves for different types of listening? Or how about changing gain after the filters are calculated? How about custom delays? Why can't his be in the XMC-1?
|
|
|
|
Post by garbulky on Apr 16, 2016 17:29:55 GMT -5
I don't know. But I imagine because it's $731 and Emotiva's is $99.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2016 19:22:44 GMT -5
I don't know. But I imagine because it's $731 and Emotiva's is $99. You can save 4 different profiles to the minidsp dirac unit.. And it's not any extra charge over the unit.. |
|
gabe
Minor Hero
Posts: 56
|
Post by gabe on Apr 17, 2016 7:16:08 GMT -5
Sorry if I was not clear. I was talking about performance and features, not price. $99.00 for something that does not work very well is not a bargain to me.
|
|
|
|
Post by geebo on Apr 17, 2016 7:30:14 GMT -5
Sorry if I was not clear. I was talking about performance and features, not price. $99.00 for something that does not work very well is not a bargain to me. But it does work very well. I used the trial for awhile before Dirac made it to the XMC. Performance wise I see no difference. Featurewise there are differences. Yes, the PC version can store 4 different filters for quick switching. But something far more important to me is that fact that the XMC can use Dirac for any source including a PC. That the PC version can only work with a PC is a deal killer for me at any price. The XMC version is also easier to use especially after the filters are created. |
|
klinemj
Emo VIPs 
Official Emofest Scribe
Posts: 15,083
|
Post by klinemj on Apr 17, 2016 7:34:56 GMT -5
Sorry if I was not clear. I was talking about performance and features, not price. $99.00 for something that does not work very well is not a bargain to me. So, you say you think you are doing something wrong and it does not work well for you. Before we all start elaborating on what the other version of DIRAC live can do for you, how about you elaborate on what is not working for you. And, which version of DIRAC are you using and which mic? Mark |
|
|
|
Post by sycraft on Apr 17, 2016 8:17:37 GMT -5
They are for different purposes. The Dirac Live from Emotiva runs on your XMC-1. Like the XMC-1 actually does the processing of the filters to correct the sound. You use your PC to do measurement, but then it is all on the processor for the rest of the time. This means any (digital) sound fed in to the XMC-1 gets corrected if you want it to, and it places no load of any kind on your system. The limitations are that it runs only up to 48kHz, you can't see and adjust its levels/delays, and can only have a single curve stored in the XMC-1.
The Dirac Live from Dirac themselves is a service that runs on your PC. The PC itself handles the processing. You run a program that takes over one of your sound outputs (you tell it which) and it creates virtual sound devices you have your programs play in to. It then processes the sound and outputs it to your actual output device. It does not interact with the XMC-1, or any other hardware, at all. It is all self-contained on the PC. The advantages are you don't need any additional hardware, it will support up to 192kHz (not that is useful, but it will), you can have 4 different presets ready to load, and you can make adjustments to the levels. The disadvantage is the price, the fact it only works on your PC's audio, the CPU load on your PC, and the fact that it can be fiddly and have some compatibility issues in some cases.
So the question is what you are after. You can't mix n' match though. Buying the version from Dirac doesn't get you more functions on the XMC-1, it won't talk to it at all.
As to why these things can't be in the XMC-1:
--Presets are limited by storage space on the DSP. The chip in the XMC-1 only seems to have memory for a single preset. There isn't anything that can be done about that, they'd have to use a different chip. There are chips that can store more, the SHARC chips MiniDSP uses store 4.
--Max frequency is a limitation of DSP power. Those little DSPs are very weak compared to the massive Core i5/i7s you find in desktops. Of course they cost 10% of the price and use 2% of the power so there's a reason they are used. Regardless, it only has enough power to do 48kHz, whereas the PC can throw more at it.
--The levels/delays thing I'm not sure why. Perhaps it is a strange limitation of the DSP that there is actually no possible way to read them back. Perhaps it is theoretically possible, but Dirac's code on the DSP doesn't allow it for some reason. Perhaps it is actually possible and Emotiva just needs to work out how and implement it on their code on the XMC-1. Do note however you can set gains/delays in addition to hat Dirac does using the XMC-1 and they will apply on top of what Dirac is doing.
If you want to have more features in hardware, there are other options. MiniDSP makes a few devices you can look at. Their nanoAVR DL and DDRC-88A can both hold 4 presets. They don't have adjustable delays though as far as I know, and are 48kHz. They are also only EQs, not processors. If you want everything, the Datasat RS20i will do it all. Multiple presets, configuratible everything, 16 channels that can all be corrected, stackable EQs, and 96kHz operation. Of course it is north of $20,000 so that does make it rather niche.
|
|
tesla
Sensei
Amplitude Fetishist
Posts: 152
|
Post by tesla on Apr 17, 2016 9:11:11 GMT -5
... But something far more important to me is that fact that the XMC can use Dirac for any source including a PC. That the PC version can only work with a PC is a deal killer for me at any price. Therein lies the key advantage of the Emo version of Dirac Live. I had looked at the PC version of Dirac Live prior to buying my XMC-1. I decided to stick with Emo's Dirac Live Full version, because I wanted to enjoy the sonic advantages of Dirac with all my sources, not just one. Cheers! T- |
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on Apr 17, 2016 9:54:56 GMT -5
As to performance, I think most people have been impressed or satisfied with how Dirac Live has improved the sound of their system when using the XMC-1. That's not to say that it's perfect, or that some people haven't had problems, or that you might have to put in more effort to get it right. There are many good threads trying to help people setup Dirac, or deal with specific problems.
As to features, I'd opine that Emotiva and Dirac sat down and came up with a set of features that Emotiva felt met their requirements and Dirac came up with a price they could live with and support. Maybe if multiple curves was in the package the cost would have been $149 and Emo said, no, we want to hold it at $99. I'd guess most who've payed their $99 feel they got their money's worth, but maybe not all.
|
|
|
|
Post by mickseymour on Apr 18, 2016 0:14:37 GMT -5
--The levels/delays thing I'm not sure why. Perhaps it is a strange limitation of the DSP that there is actually no possible way to read them back You may be right. A backup does not include Dirac settings and a factory reset does not wipe them. Do note however you can set gains/delays in addition to hat Dirac does using the XMC-1 and they will apply on top of what Dirac is doing. Gain only. There's no way to change the delays. |
|
gabe
Minor Hero
Posts: 56
|
Post by gabe on Apr 18, 2016 17:17:16 GMT -5
I was over at the Dirac site to read the instructions from them to SEE if I was doing something wrong. I was not.
|
|
klinemj
Emo VIPs
Official Emofest Scribe
Posts: 15,083
|
Post by klinemj on Apr 19, 2016 5:35:35 GMT -5
gabeI never saw an answer to this. Can you elaborate? Sorry if I was not clear. I was talking about performance and features, not price. $99.00 for something that does not work very well is not a bargain to me. So, you say you think you are doing something wrong and it does not work well for you. Before we all start elaborating on what the other version of DIRAC live can do for you, how about you elaborate on what is not working for you. And, which version of DIRAC are you using and which mic? Thanks! Mark
|
|
|
|
Post by deewan on Apr 20, 2016 8:02:32 GMT -5
Sorry if I was not clear. I was talking about performance and features, not price. $99.00 for something that does not work very well is not a bargain to me. I agree with klinemj. gabe, can you explain why you think the Emotiva version does not work very well and why $99 is not a fair price? Please let us know your setup and equipment being used. At that point there are plenty of very smart people on this forum that may be able to help you setup the $99 version of Dirac Live in a way to impress you with it's output. I know you don't want to talk about price, but comparing the features of the $99 version of Dirac Live that runs on the XMC is the $700+ version of Dirac Live that runs on a PC and expecting the same feature set seems crazy to me. I'd never compare a base model car to a fully loaded car and ask why the cheaper base model car doesn't perform as well or have the same features as the more expensive car. |
|
KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,256
|
Post by KeithL on Apr 20, 2016 10:31:50 GMT -5
Perhaps more to the point - the $99 "upgrade" version of Dirac Live for Emotiva is going to give you exactly the same results as the one we give you for free IF YOU LEAVE EVERYTHING SET AT THE DEFAULTS and use our microphone. The difference you get for your $99 is more options and more things you can change to suit your preferences. Sorry if I was not clear. I was talking about performance and features, not price. $99.00 for something that does not work very well is not a bargain to me. I agree with klinemj . gabe , can you explain why you think the Emotiva version does not work very well and why $99 is not a fair price? Please let us know your setup and equipment being used. At that point there are plenty of very smart people on this forum that may be able to help you setup the $99 version of Dirac Live in a way to impress you with it's output. I know you don't want to talk about price, but comparing the features of the $99 version of Dirac Live that runs on the XMC is the $700+ version of Dirac Live that runs on a PC and expecting the same feature set seems crazy to me. I'd never compare a base model car to a fully loaded car and ask why the cheaper base model car doesn't perform as well or have the same features as the more expensive car. |
|
