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Post by Wideawake on Apr 19, 2016 20:28:27 GMT -5
Hello audiophiles! Does anyone know of a device that allows me to input multi-channel (5.1 or 7.1) digital audio from a single input (such as that output from an A/V pre-pro) and provides digital outputs for the individual channels? For example, the digital output from a pre-pro is fed to the device and the device then provides 6 or 8 (for 5.1 or 7.1) digital outputs; one for each channel.
NOTE, I'm not interested in a device that converts the signal to analog. I need the decoded digital signal for each channel to be output by the device in real-time. Input formats could be Dolby Digital, DTS or whatever. I don't know all the digital formats in use today.
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Post by millst on Apr 19, 2016 22:21:41 GMT -5
Pre-pros don't normally output anything digital. Their primary purpose is to get the signal in analog form before the amplifier stage. There are some exceptions e.g. HDMI zone output or the XMC-1 digital out. Could you elaborate on exactly what you are trying to accomplish? What kind of inputs/outputs are we talking about (toslink, coax, HDMI, etc.)?
-tm
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Post by garbulky on Apr 19, 2016 22:30:21 GMT -5
I don't know of any but why don't you tell us what you are planning to do with it? Are you planning for mono PCM DACs of some sort?
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Post by knucklehead on Apr 19, 2016 23:23:23 GMT -5
There are some AVR's that have digital output - usually optical - and a couple of preamp processors with this feature - which is not all that common. I have a Yamaha RX-V3900 with one optical out port. I can't imagine why you'd need one. Perhaps if you outlined why you need this we could be more helpful.
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Post by mgbpuff on Apr 20, 2016 9:09:16 GMT -5
A company called MSB has had products that do this. Beware they are super expensive!
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Post by Wideawake on Apr 21, 2016 18:40:26 GMT -5
Thanks mgbpuff! I did not find such a product at their web site, but admittedly, I did not look too hard either after I saw their prices.  Even if they had what I'm looking for I probably cannot afford it. I'm looking to build a surround speaker system with external xovers and would like to avoid the D/A (pre-pro), A/D (xover), D/A (xover) conversion. Would like to keep the signal in the digital realm until it leaves the xover. This way there is a single D/A conversion taking place. Am I looking at this all wrong? Is there a simple way to do this? |
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Post by millst on Apr 21, 2016 19:59:14 GMT -5
What's wrong with the crossovers inside your speakers and a receiver/pre-pro?
-tm
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Post by garbulky on Apr 21, 2016 20:17:43 GMT -5
Thanks mgbpuff! I did not find such a product at their web site, but admittedly, I did not look too hard either after I saw their prices. Even if they had what I'm looking for I probably cannot afford it. I'm looking to build a surround speaker system with external xovers and would like to avoid the D/A (pre-pro), A/D (xover), D/A (xover) conversion. Would like to keep the signal in the digital realm until it leaves the xover. This way there is a single D/A conversion taking place. Am I looking at this all wrong? Is there a simple way to do this? Ah I gotcha. So if I get this right your external cross over is DIGITAL right? Is that why you are trying to do this single D/A thing? BTW as far as I know most external cross overs that use digital components take an ANALOG signal, perform a a A/D then D/A. I mean I might be totally wrong about that but I think that's generally the way it works.... I've been wary of digital crossovers. You take a really good pre/pro (well I do two channels so I try to take a good DAC) then compare the D/A sections in it to the digital sections of the crossovers...I don't think they are in the same league regarding specs and build. But I recognize that digital crossovers can do more complex stuff than a analog crossover so it has value. I think Legacy Audio used to use a Behringer unit of some sort for the digital crossover stuff for their Aeris. And I think it was only like $200 for the behringer (!!) But they moved on to something better eventually. But yeah I think your sticking point would be that these crossovers are designed to take an analog signal. You may also have another issue with seven separate DACS is syncing them. I believe Linkwit's LX 521 uses external crossovers. YOu could talk to wizardofoz about them. he has one. www.linkwitzlab.com/LX521/Description.htm |
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Post by wizardofoz on Apr 22, 2016 9:53:10 GMT -5
The lx521 originally was done with an ASP so all the signals were crossed in the analogue domain. Now there is a digital option that can take either analogue in or digital in and give out analogue, but the limit is 24/96 so that might be less than what your digital sources are at, and of course going a-d then d-a again after perhaps coming through a different digital d-a conversion is obviously not ideal.
Doing digital crossovers is of course much easier to tweak this and that with delays and slopes etc,
There is a wealth of discussion on the net, and a good amount of details that Sigfried Linkwitz has been though on this and he seems happy with the results thus far. For me I am staying with the ASP for now
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Post by mgbpuff on Apr 22, 2016 10:08:34 GMT -5
Meridian builds all digital systems until it gets to the speakers. Again, very expensive!
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stiehl11
Emo VIPs 
Give me available light!
Posts: 7,269
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Post by stiehl11 on Apr 22, 2016 10:33:29 GMT -5
Is this (click here)kinda what you're looking for? It outputs to any speaker you like (but I like their Premier Collection, or PC speakers). |
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KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,274
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Post by KeithL on Apr 22, 2016 11:16:40 GMT -5
You have a few problems there..... some practical and some legal. The copy protection that goes with HDMI (HDCP) basically forbids an HDMI device from accepting an HDMI input, decoding it, and then giving you a full-quality digital audio output using some other (non-copy-protected) digital audio format. This essentially makes it illegal (or at least in violation of the HDMI license) to do what you're hoping for (or limits it to non-consumer equipment with special licensing). It's why AVRs and pre/pros don't offer digital multi-channel decoded outputs. And why you don't find any (legal) "little black boxes" that do it. (Devices like Oppo players can be configured to give you a decoded multi-channel PCM digital output - but only via an HDMI output - which maintains "the HDMI encrypted/secure data path".) However, you can get some of the other parts of what you're asking for.... For example, Behringer's digital crossover has a stereo digital input (as well as analog ones), and does all sorts of cool digital DSP crossover processing - but only offers analog outputs.... www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=275635&gclid=COLWnYfLoswCFVAvgQodtWYOwA&is=REG&ap=y&m=Y&c3api=1876%2C92051677442%2C&Q=&A=detailsAnd here's a digital EQ - with both digital inputs and digital outputs: www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/280608-REG/Behringer_DEQ2496_DEQ2496_Digital_EQ.htmlAnd there are versions of the miniDSP that have digital inputs and digital outputs. Also note that, if you're playing FILES or discs on a computer, there are ways of re-routing the output of a software decoder to digital outputs. (Basically what we're talking about is using software to decode your surround-sound file into a multi-channel PCM file or stream, then output THAT via a multi-channel digital output.) However, this sort of thing tends to be.... NOT simple. |
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Post by yves on Apr 22, 2016 15:17:12 GMT -5
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Post by Wideawake on Apr 23, 2016 13:29:10 GMT -5
Thank you all for some very thought provoking information. I see some familiar names. Hi WizardOfOz! Hi Stiehl11! mgbpuff - Meridian has had the right view from the get-go, however, it's a closed system so you need to replace almost all your equipment for theirs in order to maintain the digital flow throughout. I'm attempting to create the same except with the goal of making an open system so a tinkerer can replace any component in the chain with off-the-shelf equipment. yves - Interesting developments. I use Kodi (previously named XBMC) myself. I was looking for a more universal solution independent of a physical audio component or computer as the source. @keithl - I was not aware of the restrictions imposed by HDCP compliance policies. First they ram HDMI down our throats and then they cripple our ability to extract bit streams from sources. Wow! That sucks! Oh well, thanks for the info. I can stop chasing my tail now. So, if I understand this correctly, a company making a Bluray/DVD player cannot pipe just the video stream through to an HDMI output while providing PCM audio bit streams per channel via say optical, AES or S/PDIF connectors? |
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Post by mgbpuff on Apr 23, 2016 14:49:09 GMT -5
"So, if I understand this correctly, a company making a Bluray/DVD player cannot pipe just the video stream through to an HDMI output while providing PCM audio bit streams per channel via say optical, AES or S/PDIF connectors?" I know Keith said this and of course it applies to the video, but I don't think it applies to the audio portion. The MSB Universal Transport ($6,995) outputs 8 channels of digital audio on S/PDIF, Toslink, Balanced AES/EBU, and MSB PRO connectors. Many 4K players are allowed to downgrade the copy protection for audio on second outputs.
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Post by yves on Apr 23, 2016 18:49:47 GMT -5
So, if I understand this correctly, a company making a Bluray/DVD player cannot pipe just the video stream through to an HDMI output while providing PCM audio bit streams per channel via say optical, AES or S/PDIF connectors? Companies can't. But MPC-HC sure can...  |
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Post by audiosyndrome on Apr 23, 2016 18:58:58 GMT -5
In the last week I saw an article which I believe stated Oppo has a commercially available player that has separate digital outputs for each channel. Even has a picture of it but I can't locate the article. On Secrets maybe?
Russ
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Post by mgbpuff on Apr 23, 2016 19:19:52 GMT -5
In the last week I saw an article which I believe stated Oppo has a commercially available player that has separate digital outputs for each channel. Even has a picture of it but I can't locate the article. On Secrets maybe? Russ The MSB Technology Universal player I mentioned above uses an Oppo mechanism and software. |
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Even if they had what I'm looking for I probably cannot afford it.
