How do XPA-1's compare to "higher end" mono-blocks?

[StoneGlad]

How do XPA-1's compare to "higher end" mono-blocks? Im really looking for answers from folks who have real/actual experience doing comparisons within their systems, not just a general opinion from someone with no experience comparing them A to B.
I currently have an XPR-5, I just bought a new pair of speakers (Martin Logan Monti's) and i feel like they could use more power and detail (also, if I keep my Martin Logan Vista's they replaced, I could have 7.2
all ML Electro Stat Towers (ML Monti Front R/L, ML Vista side and back surrounds, ML Stage X center and 2 ML Descent i subs:) ).
I have been looking around at pre-owned Mark Levinson, ARC, Rouge, Krell, etc Mono blocks (also a new pair of Odyssey Kismet monos).
All of the above sell for about 3K to 6K per pair used, thus I'm now thinking about the XPA-1's (3-10 year old used Amps make me nervous and would still be twice as much or more than the XPA-1's).
However, I have been working on putting together a really good high end system (2 channel music 70%) and do not want to skimp on a new purchase if it compromises sound quality.
Most people here are die hard Emotiva fan boys, so hard to get honest objective opinions/experience, but on other forums, the consensus is that the XPA-1's are a good value for the money, but definitely "mid-fi" and can cause fatigue/lack spaciousness, etc.
My ML Monti's dip down to 1 Ohm and are power hungry!
Thanks for any help (P.S. - I have only ever owned Emotiva Amps, no other brand, and my XPR-5 is staying in my system, so do not think I am an emotiva hater!!

[garbulky]

May 6, 2016 12:08:34 GMT -5 StoneGlad said:

but on other forums, the consensus is that the XPA-1's are a good value for the money, but definitely "mid-fi" and can cause fatigue/lack spaciousness, etc.

So let me be blunt for just a second here.
I think that on other forums they haven't heard the XPA-1 gen 2s and are talking out of their ass. "Cause fatigue and lack spaciousness". Complete rubbish imo. The main difference I heard when upgrading to XPA-1 gen 2s was better spatial details. I could tell the size of the hall that things were recorded on better.
Now the poor audiophile had some critiques about the XPA-1 L. I can't disagree completely with him. (Doesn't mean it's a bad amp though). But we are talking about XPA-1 gen 2 here not the XPA-1 L .

Now I think most people will agree I love Emotiva products. However having continuously heard better and better products I realize that electronics don't sound the same and the limit was never where I imagine it to be in terms of good sound. Long story short - there must be better stuff out there than Emotiva.
I have no trouble believing at least some of the high end (and the high prices) offer better sound. And not marginally better. Just better period.

I don't have experience with the high end. Most of my experience has to do with the Emotiva line. So I don't have any comparisons with better stuff to share with ya.

However I have heard your XRP-2s and I own the XPA-1 gen 2. The XPR-2s have a slightly different sound signature. They are more laid back, they have a bit of a relaxed sound. Slightly less dynamic. It feels there may be a bit more body in the mid-range. The critic is that it "feels" slightly rolled off in the treble.

The XPA-1 sound similar to the XPA-2. Its class A option, monoblock architecutre, and fully balanced architecture (I assume) makes it sound better in my opinion. It's still cut from the same cloth.
The XPR-1 amplifiers have a humungous power supply and would likely handle 1 ohm loads better. The XPA-1 can put out about 1750 watts a channel into a two ohm load before it is limted by the wall plug. The XPR-1 can put out more power than that! I think it puts out 1700 watts in to a four ohm load and in burst tests puts out an insane 2860 watts of power per channel in to a four ohm load. A 2 ohm load will likely be higher.

You can also...bi amp! Heyyyyy
Here is my review.
emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/44968/garbulkys-xpa-1-gen-review-785874

[StoneGlad]

Thanks for your thoughts.
I definitely wish I jumped on a pair of XPR-1's whe I had the chance, but too late now!
In my own system I have only the XPR-5 now and I had an XPA-2 and XPA-3 before (sold them when I bought the XPR-5).
So, I have not heard anything else in my own system.
However, at Magnolia and other high end audio stores I have heard my ML Monti's or ML Summit X's with McIntosh Mono-blocks, Mark Levinson Mono's, and Rouge Audio Tube Mono's and I was totally blown away!!
However, these rooms were all highly treated and that prob has more influence on sound than an amp does.
If I could afford a pair of Rouge or ARC or Plinius Mono blocks new ($5K to 15K / pair) I'm sure they would blow away the XPA-1's (even though Emotiva sales told me "XPA's are much better than all of them", lol

[pedrocols]

You can own hight quality Tube MonoBlocks for a fraction of the cost of the ones you mentioned...

[pedrocols]

I did enjoy owning the upa-500 more than the upa-1!

[garbulky]

I've heard some Rogues but not the monoblocks. I think the XPA-1 did better than the Rogues. Now ARC and Plinius are a different story. I am intrigued by both Krell and Oddyssey. There is a guy on this forum I think Hari009 who selling a pair of class A humungous monoblocks - I think they are Oddysseys or Krell for about 3 or 4k I think.

[KeithL]

It's absolutely true that amplifiers sound different - but, as you go up the "price ladder" of amplifiers that are intended to sound neutral, the differences get smaller and smaller. (And the differences between speakers, and between rooms, are usually MUCH bigger than the differences between amps; just try listening to two high-end amps in the same room, with the same speakers, then listening to the same amp and speakers in two different rooms.)

However, I would also say that, once you get past a certain point, the small differences you hear are often simply differences. I've heard quite a few amps, ranging from $29 to at least $50k, and I'd have to say that the expensive ones don't always sound better than the ones that cost much less. I've heard some really expensive amps that sounded really good, but I've also heard a few that, at least to me, didn't sound very good at all. There really is a lot of expensive gear out there that is designed to have a certain sound that some people like (but it isn't especially accurate or neutral), or that is designed and built like a true work of art (but, sadly, the technology is lacking). So, to put it bluntly, while I wouldn't be so bold as to claim that your money never gets you anything, or that our gear sounds as good as EVERY $50k amp out there, I can say that we absolutely sound better than at least some of them... yeah... really (of course, that's according to my opinion as the listener).

Nobody's laughing.... a lot of very expensive gear really isn't giving you better sound quality.... I can't pretend that it's "a dirty little secret" because it isn't a secret.

Of course, in order to do a fair comparison of amplifiers, you really need to play them on the same speakers, in the same room.
(Try telling some dealer trying to sell you a $20k amp that, if he brings it to YOUR house, and you like it a lot better than your Emo amps, in YOUR living room, you'll buy it.. )
 
Now, I specifically limited my claims to "amplifiers that are intended to sound neutral" because, once you remove that restriction, then you have no basis on which to compare them.
Once you get into tubes, and other equipment NOT specifically intended to sound neutral, then all that matters is whether a certain piece of equipment sounds like you prefer - or not.
And, in that case, all that counts is how much you like it - so there's no right or wrong

However, again, in that case, I would warn even more strongly that, once you get past a certain level, it's foolish to assume that a more expensive product will sound better.

To put it cynically, once you get past the level where pricing is based to some degree on "cost plus profit", you quickly enter a realm of "whatever someone is willing to pay" (which is NOT exactly the same as "you get what you pay for".)

May 6, 2016 12:52:18 GMT -5 StoneGlad said:

Thanks for your thoughts.
I definitely wish I jumped on a pair of XPR-1's whe I had the chance, but too late now!
In my own system I have only the XPR-5 now and I had an XPA-2 and XPA-3 before (sold them when I bought the XPR-5).
So, I have not heard anything else in my own system.
However, at Magnolia and other high end audio stores I have heard my ML Monti's or ML Summit X's with McIntosh Mono-blocks, Mark Levinson Mono's, and Rouge Audio Tube Mono's and I was totally blown away!!
However, these rooms were all highly treated and that prob has more influence on sound than an amp does.
If I could afford a pair of Rouge or ARC or Plinius Mono blocks new ($5K to 15K / pair) I'm sure they would blow away the XPA-1's (even though Emotiva sales told me "XPA's are much better than all of them", lol

[qdtjni]

I've had different mono blocks from among other Krell, Classé (the original Omega, which technically was a dual mono amp in the same box, each chanell with its own power supply), AudioNet MAX and a few others.
Never compared any of them with the same speakers I've had since I got the XPA-1 G2s.

However, after having the XPA-1s for a couple of years, first driving a pair of B&W 804 Diamonds and now 804 D3s, I doubt anyone of them would do better.
They old expensive amps do have a more exclusive build when it comes to look and feel but sound wise, I'm very happy with the XPA-1 G pair.

[garbulky]

My ultimate system would have four XPA-1s bi amped for max class A power! But I'm very happy with my pair! (For now! )

[Wideawake]

StoneGlad, I have loved certain products from Emotiva and disliked others, so I'm certainly not a "die hard Emotiva fan boy". I own an IPS-1 and I have listened to the Emotiva XPA-5, XPA-2 and XPA-1 amplifiers. IMO, all three amps are amazingly good and fantastic value for money, especially the IPS-1 with it's 7 monoblocks within a single chassis. I cannot tell the difference between one amp and another in a blind test when levels are matched. I've tested this with amps from different manufacturers, including a mix of class A/B, D & H amps. I thought there was something wrong with me until someone pointed me to Richard Clark's Amp Challenge.
tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/

The short of it is that Emotiva amps are very well built and an amazing value and the XPA-1 is stable under very demanding loads. I would blindly purchase the XPA-1 from the lineup you've indicated. I suggest you don't overthink this. Order the XPA-1s now and use your savings for some other upgrade to your system or for room treatments.

[brutiarti]

I tried a pair of 9k each bryston monoblocks in my room and i couldn't tell a difference with my xpr-1's. I bet the xpa-1 are in the same league as the xpr-1 but probably you will need "the speakers" to tell the differences. I have the top of the line dali monitors and the xpr-1's give them what other "hi-end" amps give. Just my 2 cents

[StoneGlad]

Thanks, great opinions and information thus far, keep them coming:)
I have the XPR-5 now and it's served me well so far.
If the XPR-1's were still available I would have just jumped on them without question, but since they are not in unsure what to do.
Although someone did mention the XPA-1's could be better for 2 channel anyhow (I guess the Class-A capability?)
FYI, a lot of bi-amp suggestions for me, however the Martin Logan Monti's do not allow for Bi-Amping, so not an option for me (they have Powered 10" Woofers built in

[vneal]

XPA 1 S Bi Amp at the cost of one Krell, ML, Classe,, Boulder. If you need the status go exotic brand. If you are looking for best sound go XPA1 Bi Amped

[Gary Cook]

You could always wait for the Gen 3 XPA monoblocks. They are more likely to sound similar to your XPR-5.

Cheers
Gary

[yves]

May 6, 2016 12:22:49 GMT -5 garbulky said:

"Cause fatigue and lack spaciousness". Complete rubbish imo.

In the video below, we can see there was a complete lack of spaciousness at the rear end of the room. Also, the level of fatigue was so bad it actually took more than several moments for him to finally wake up again.

[klinemj]

May 7, 2016 2:21:54 GMT -5 Gary Cook said:

You could always wait for the Gen 3 XPA monoblocks. They are more likely to sound similar to your XPR-5.

Cheers
Gary

I would do this...or get some Hypex nCores.

Mark

[brubacca]

There was a thread here years ago directly comparing a McIntosh system to a Emotiva system. Maybe you can get some info from that?

Not all amps sound the same because not all amp designers have the same goal. Emotiva makes good product. Their stated goal is neutrality and to make amps that are straight wire with gain. If that aligns with your preferences then there is no reason not to buy Emotiva. I use a pair of xpa-100 in my TV system and really like them. If you like a different kind of sound, like tubes for example then the xpa-1 may not be for your system. In my stereo system I use tubes and enjoy the distortion they create.

Good luck

[AudioHTIT]

At this level I think terms like "blow away" don't belong, at least with respect to quality power amplifiers. Certainly some speakers come to life when driven by the right amp(s), but at a certain point the differences become rather small, if even discernible (as was Keith's point). I would caution against buying into some of the audiophile rhetoric that gets thrown around, it's rarely ever "night and day".

... The exception is of course the example in yves post.

[vcautokid]

Selling Krell, McIntosh and Sunfire etc. For years. Heard the Odessey. The XPA-1 more than holds its own. It doesn't apologize for being the best value in a monoblock. Like everything Keith said, and more. The XPA-1 gives all you could want. No need for special anything. They are just great amps.

I am one of the few that had a chance to live with these products in length of time. I still like those brands, and more. But I like other things too for my life, and for the value Emotiva puts on the table along with performance, I can enjoy those things. So yes, the XPA-1 Gen 2 IS the real deal.

[cardiffkook]

I own the first gen XPA-1s and use them to drive Maggie 3.7i's. I was able to compare the Emotiva to a pair of PS AudioBHK 300 monoblocks and to a PS AUdio BHK 250 for three or four months straight. The monoblocks go for about $14K, the BHK 250 for about half that amount. Note both are tube/solid state hybrids.

The only reliable significant difference was in smoothness. The BHK 300' s were less strident on overly etched recordings and female vocalists. On the other hand, they were also a bit less etched on acoustic guitar. This difference was not in any way measurable in frequency response. But it was consistent. One other minor difference was lower levels of background noise on the PS Audio gear (the Emotiva amps have annoying 40db transformer hum). The BHK 250 was somewhere between the Emotiva and its larger sibling.

One side note -- I could only tell the tonality/smoothness difference between amps in my larger listening space. In my smaller listening room (14X20) the room drowned out any difference between amps. I could not hear the amps over the room.

The bass was as good or better on the Emotiva. Imaging and holographic sound staging probably a tad better on the Emotiva.

However I preferred the tonality and smoothness of the PS Audio, especially the larger mono blocks.

Did I prefer PS Audio ten times as much? Absolutely not.

Which do I believe was more accurate? Possibly the Emotiva, but I really do not know.

Was I tempted to sell Emotiva and buy the more expensive gear? Nope.

Gould I get similar tone by adjusting the room or speakers? Somewhat. Additional toe in or room treatment is another way of taming the higher frequencies.

But could I hear a consistent difference? Yes, and it does make me wonder if I could find similar smoothness at a cost that isn't $6,000 to $13,000 more.