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Post by Mikomill on May 19, 2016 9:22:32 GMT -5
I have an XMC-1 processor that i was using for movies as well as 2 channel stereo and am extremely happy with the 2 channel sound i get from it. I recently picked up an XSP-1 preamp on a trade and wanted to compare the 2 channel sound between the XMC-1 processor and the XSP-1 preamp.
Heres my XMC setup for 2 channel:
Cds ripped to my Iphone, played through an apple airplay connected via toslink to the XMC-1 to a pair of XPA-100 monoblock amps to Definitive technology BP-20 speakers. listening is done with reference stereo.
Heres my Xsp-1 setup for 2 channel:
Cds ripped to my Iphone, played through an apple airplay connected via toslink to the XDA-2 DAC to the analog 1 input of the XSP-1 preamp to a pair of XPA-100 monoblock amps to Definitive technology BP-20 speakers. listening is done with direct on. No subs.
Is there any reason why the XSP-1 setup would sound cleaner, less harsh and have a slightly better sound stage then the XMC-1 setup? I thought the DAC in the XMC processor was better then the XDA2 dac?
Its my 52 year old ears isnt it? Its all those years playing drums in a rock band thats affecting my hearing isnt it?
I haven't tried it with vinyl yet. I have a Creek phono preamp going into the XMC-1 right now. I wonder how the phono stage of the XSP-1 will compare to the Creek/XMC-1 processor combination?
Id love to hear your opinions on this.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on May 19, 2016 10:01:54 GMT -5
To be totally honest with you the DACs in the XMC-1 and the XDA-2 are both very neutral, and very good DACs, so the differences between them should be VERY minimal... Likewise, the analog sections in the XMC-1 and the XSP-1 are also both pretty neutral... and so should be quite similar in sound. (I'm a little dubious about AirPlay, and you didn't say what you used to RIP those CDs - but that's the same for both.) While no two devices ever sound precisely the same, I'm more inclined to think that you might be able to attribute the difference in sound simply to not having the levels set exactly the same. (It's a well-known fact that a difference in level of even a fraction of a dB usually isn't recognizable as such - but that the fractionally louder device usually sounds "better" or "clearer".) Another thing you might want to try would be to enable and disable the ASRC in the XDA-2 (the "SRC Bypass" button on the remote control). In theory, all the ASRC should do is to remove any jitter that might be present, and the way in which it does this shouldn't be otherwise audible - but, in reality, it does make a slight difference in sound. The difference should be small - and would be most noticeable on high-res recordings with cymbals and other instruments with lots of high-frequency energy. (The XMC-1 has an ASRC between its DSP stages which is always enabled.) You SHOULD expect significant differences between various phono preamps... because they really do vary considerably. The phono preamp in the XSP-1 is quite good - and quite accurate; I haven't heard a Creek phono preamp lately. (The differences between phono preamps should be far more obvious that the other differences we've been discussing.... ) I have an XMC-1 processor that i was using for movies as well as 2 channel stereo and am extremely happy with the 2 channel sound i get from it. I recently picked up an XSP-1 preamp on a trade and wanted to compare the 2 channel sound between the XMC-1 processor and the XSP-1 preamp. Heres my XMC setup for 2 channel: Cds ripped to my Iphone, played through an apple airplay connected via toslink to the XMC-1 to a pair of XPA-100 monoblock amps to Definitive technology BP-20 speakers. listening is done with reference stereo. Heres my Xsp-1 setup for 2 channel: Cds ripped to my Iphone, played through an apple airplay connected via toslink to the XDA-2 DAC to the analog 1 input of the XSP-1 preamp to a pair of XPA-100 monoblock amps to Definitive technology BP-20 speakers. listening is done with direct on. No subs. Is there any reason why the XSP-1 setup would sound cleaner, less harsh and have a slightly better sound stage then the XMC-1 setup? I thought the DAC in the XMC processor was better then the XDA2 dac? Its my 52 year old ears isnt it? Its all those years playing drums in a rock band thats affecting my hearing isnt it? I haven't tried it with vinyl yet. I have a Creek phono preamp going into the XMC-1 right now. I wonder how the phono stage of the XSP-1 will compare to the Creek/XMC-1 processor combination? Id love to hear your opinions on this. |
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Post by garbulky on May 19, 2016 10:06:52 GMT -5
If it's a different speaker in a different room, it's possible either your room or your speaker positioning is not setup as well.
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Post by Mikomill on May 19, 2016 10:30:12 GMT -5
Garbulky
its the same speakers, same room, same position. I connected the XMC-1 to the balanced input on the XPA-100's and the USP-1 to the unbalanced inputs and just flip the switch on the amps to go from one to the other.
Keith
I switched between ASRC on and off when i was listening through the XDA-2/USP-1 to what ever sounded best for the song i was listening to.
I used itunes to copy cds and then synced the songs to my iphone. Digital is new to me so im not sure thats the best way to play all the cds i have through my home stereo as well as listening to them through my phone when im at work or out riding my Harley. Is there a better option then airplayto play cds through the home stereo?
Is there a way to incorporate both the XMC-1 and the USP-1 into my system so i can listen to 2 chanel with the USP and Movies with the XMC-1 or is that more trouble then its worth?
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Post by melm on May 19, 2016 12:09:01 GMT -5
You ripped these CDs how exactly? MP3? What bit rate? If you are using iTunes use Apple Lossless for better fidelity on both systems. That are lots of variables in your audio path. IPhone, AirPlay, etc etc. it could just be a level difference.
Mel
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Post by Mikomill on May 19, 2016 12:31:09 GMT -5
i think the only difference is the XMC-1 compared to the XDA-2/XSP-1 right? Im using the same source, airplay and music from my iphone, the speakers placement, room and seating position is the same in both cases.
Whats the best way to get music off of a cd to an mp3 player? i thought the SC would depend mostly on the DAC. No?
Im new to all of this so im sure i could be doing something a better way.
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Post by cheapthryl on May 19, 2016 13:01:55 GMT -5
Is there a way to incorporate both the XMC-1 and the USP-1 into my system so i can listen to 2 chanel with the USP and Movies with the XMC-1 or is that more trouble then its worth? The preamp has ht (home theater) by-pass and can function exactly this way. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on May 19, 2016 13:16:19 GMT -5
Just to clarify, you started off saying XSP-1 in the first post and switched to USP-1 in the fourth, then back to the XSP-1 again. Which do you have?
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Post by teaman on May 19, 2016 13:25:48 GMT -5
Mkanter, instead of ripping CDs to use for your in home listening I suggest you pick up an ERC-3 CD player and just play the CD direct. I am yet to hear burned music that competes with how crisp and vibrant the music that comes out of my Emotiva CD players.
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Post by Mikomill on May 19, 2016 15:00:22 GMT -5
Just to clarify, you started off saying XSP-1 in the first post and switched to USP-1 in the fourth, then back to the XSP-1 again. Which do you have? Sorry, I have an XSP-1 pre, not a USP-1 |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on May 19, 2016 15:39:39 GMT -5
Good question.... iTunes can rip to lossless WAV or ALAC files - which should be fine - but the default setting is LOSSY AAC files (which are like MP3 files - not so fine). However, if you were using AAC, I would expect the quality reduction due to that to be much more extreme than the difference in sound between the XSP-1 and the XMC-1. You ripped these CDs how exactly? MP3? What bit rate? If you are using iTunes use Apple Lossless for better fidelity on both systems. That are lots of variables in your audio path. IPhone, AirPlay, etc etc. it could just be a level difference. Mel |
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Post by novisnick on May 19, 2016 15:49:30 GMT -5
Good question.... iTunes can rip to lossless WAV or ALAC files - which should be fine - but the default setting is LOSSY AAC files (which are like MP3 files - not so fine). However, if you were using AAC, I would expect the quality reduction due to that to be much more extreme than the difference in sound between the XSP-1 and the XMC-1. You ripped these CDs how exactly? MP3? What bit rate? If you are using iTunes use Apple Lossless for better fidelity on both systems. That are lots of variables in your audio path. IPhone, AirPlay, etc etc. it could just be a level difference. Mel I dont want to sidetrack the thread, but KeithL, whats your preferred file format for ripping CDs? Should I start a new thread? |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on May 19, 2016 16:11:50 GMT -5
Sound quality is basically limited by the worst component in your signal chain. Assuming that you did a LOSSLESS RIP of your files, and then played them via some method that's also lossless, then, yes, the DAC should be the biggest difference. However, if you're new to all this, then those are NOT good assumptions. For example, while iTunes is capable of doing a lossless RIP if set to do so, by default it uses lossy AAC compression (like MP3). Therefore, unless you change that setting, the ripped file itself has already suffered a significant loss in quality - which the DAC can't "put back". (However, with that already low-quality file, it should be even harder to hear the difference between the XSP-1 and the XMC-1.) For best quality, you want to RIP your files into a lossless format (WAV, or ALAC, or FLAC), then play them on a player that doesn't re-sample or reduce the quality. As for AirPlay - that is a very complicated and somewhat vague subject. True audiophile players go out of their way to make sure that they deliver a "bit perfect audio stream" - they don't alter the audio on the way through. In contrast, Airplay is a CONVENIENCE format. The best information available is that SOMETIMES AirPlay delivers the audio data without altering it - but sometimes not. It is a known fact, for example, that Airplay sometimes re-samples audio to different sample rates - in which case it is obviously altering it. At other times it appears to pass the data unaltered - but there's no way to know when and if that's the case for a given connection at a given time. (The system will act differently depending on what other devices are connected to it.) Airplay may also sacrifice quality to make sure the music keeps playing if your connection gets weak - perhaps due to interference. So, in audiophile terms "the sound quality of Airplay is variable and not necessarily trustworthy." To answer your question, the best way to get audio from a CD to a portable player is to RIP that CD on a computer, using software you trust, and ripping it to a LOSSLESS format. Then playing those lossless tracks on a player that can be trusted to play them losslessly, to a good quality DAC. With an iPhone specified as your player, once you RIP your files and get them onto the iPhone, you can use a "Lightning to USB Camera adapter" to connect it directly to the USB input on your DAC (or the XMC-1). www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=897273&gclid=CP7Kno2F58wCFdU7gQodl8QGfQ&is=REG&ap=y&m=Y&c3api=1876%2C92051677562%2C&Q=&A=detailsHowever, many of us find it more convenient to RIP those files on a computer, then store your entire music library locally on a USB hard drive. Then, you can play any of your music at home - using a nice player program on the computer - directly to the XMC-1 or DAC (via USB). And you can make a copy of any music you want to take with you to play on your phone - and compress that so you can fit more songs on the limited space in your phone - at the cost of a little quality. (But ONLY compress the copy that's going on your phone.) i think the only difference is the XMC-1 compared to the XDA-2/XSP-1 right? Im using the same source, airplay and music from my iphone, the speakers placement, room and seating position is the same in both cases. Whats the best way to get music off of a cd to an mp3 player? i thought the SC would depend mostly on the DAC. No? Im new to all of this so im sure i could be doing something a better way. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on May 19, 2016 16:18:22 GMT -5
I always use FLAC. (All lossless formats are equivalent - since all give you back the same original when you decode them.) I use FLAC because it is the most widely supported lossless format outside of "Apple land" (and I'm not an Apple fan). FLAC is a free format, and virtually all non-Apple players support it (even though some Apple players don't). For ripping software I use dBPowerAmp - which is a program specifically for ripping, checking copies, and format conversions (it isn't a player). It has some nice features - like confirming the precise accuracy of each file you rip against an online database, and automatically tagging and sorting your ripped albums if you set it to. Many players, including jRiver Media Center, also do an excellent job of ripping CDs. Good question.... iTunes can rip to lossless WAV or ALAC files - which should be fine - but the default setting is LOSSY AAC files (which are like MP3 files - not so fine). However, if you were using AAC, I would expect the quality reduction due to that to be much more extreme than the difference in sound between the XSP-1 and the XMC-1. I dont want to sidetrack the thread, but KeithL, whats your preferred file format for ripping CDs? Should I start a new thread? |
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Post by Mikomill on May 20, 2016 7:34:46 GMT -5
so i could rip all my cds to an old laptop and play them from the laptop right into the XMC? any computer with a hard drive and itunes would work? Could i run the display to my tv?
this would give me better SC than iphone/itunes?
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on May 20, 2016 9:54:27 GMT -5
The first answer is yes - and any laptop with at least a dual-core processor should be plenty good enough (I've even used a single core 2 gHz Celeron - but I wouldn't try an old Pentium 4  ). iTunes can RIP OK - and will work OK for CDs - but will limit you if you ever want to buy and download high-resolution files. Both Windows and Macs, by default, ask you to pick a single default sample rate to play your files at. Since CDs are all recorded at the same 44.1k sample rate, this works fine - you just set your default sample rate to 44k. However, if you ever download or buy high-resolution files, they're going to be at other, higher, sample rates. And the single-default-sample-rate limitation will become a problem - because it will prevent your high-res files from playing at the proper sample rates. At that point, in order to avoid that limitation, you'll need to either add something to iTunes, or move up to a better player that supports "bit perfect playback" - which iTunes doesn't. The biggest real issue with iTunes is that it is what some folks refer to as "a closed ecosystem". What that means is that, when you rip your music into iTunes, iTunes will present you with a nice screen, with file lists, and album covers, and all that jazz. However, INTERNALLY, iTunes will store all your songs with gibberish names, and all that information will be stored in a database that only iTunes can read. This means that, if you decide to ditch iTunes sometime down the road, you may end up having to rip everything over again - because it's next to impossible to get your iTunes music into other programs. (The music itself will work fine, but you won't be able to read the names of the tracks, or find them.) Also note that anything you buy from the iTunes store is in a lossy compressed format (NOT nearly as good as a CD). There are many other programs that are more complicated to set up and use - but which play better with the rest of the world. (JRiver Media Center is probably the most popular one.) Using a computer will definitely give you more options, and make it easier to get the best sound quality (and you get a nice big display). Yes, just connect the output of the computer to the input on the XMC-1 via USB. You will be able to connect many computers to your TV - but not all. Most modern computers have an HDMI output - which is what modern TVs use (but most old ones don't). And many TVs have a VGA input for connecting to older computers, but not all do. So whether you can connect a computer directly to your TV will depend on the specifics of both... but most will be able to. so i could rip all my cds to an old laptop and play them from the laptop right into the XMC? any computer with a hard drive and itunes would work? Could i run the display to my tv? this would give me better SC than iphone/itunes? |
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Post by 509Paul on May 20, 2016 10:56:38 GMT -5
iTunes on my Mac stores all the albums in a music folder that gives each album a folder with correct album name and each track with title inside. I just copy that entire music folder to an external backup drive in case of a computer crash. It is very easy to sort through and find an album if needed.
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Post by Mikomill on May 20, 2016 10:57:40 GMT -5
So iTunes isn't the best place to buy one single song and expect it to have the best SQ. Any recommendations on a good place to get a single song that supports a higher quality format? I'm assuming i could then add that song to iTunes and sync it to my phone for riding and use Jriver on a laptop permanantly hooked up to my XMC for home listening.
I just downloaded the trial of Jriver and it found all the songs that i had in iTunes and imported them. If for some reason i delete ITunes will the songs still be in Jriver?
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on May 20, 2016 11:53:10 GMT -5
Interesting - either they changed something (quite possible) or there's a configuration option.... in the past it tended to store them sort of in a heap.... but then a lot of people complained.... so perhaps they've fixed that  iTunes on my Mac stores all the albums in a music folder that gives each album a folder with correct album name and each track with title inside. I just copy that entire music folder to an external backup drive in case of a computer crash. It is very easy to sort through and find an album if needed. |
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Post by 509Paul on May 20, 2016 13:00:53 GMT -5
Interesting - either they changed something (quite possible) or there's a configuration option.... in the past it tended to store them sort of in a heap.... but then a lot of people complained.... so perhaps they've fixed that  |
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