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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2016 10:11:14 GMT -5
Interesting you say that. I had installed a 7.1 channel system 5 years ago when I got my Def Techs. I recently removed two of the rears and repurposed them to my exercise room since I never really "got" the hype of 7.1. I just never really heard much out of those extra surround backs. It seems to me that everyone, or should I say most, articles I read are trying to hype up Atmos as being more of an advantaged technology than 7.1 by pushing 5.4 systems to repurpose those same extra 2 channels in 7.1 to Atmos. I think it will be interesting to see if it is more well received than 7.1, or if more is head from the extra Atmos channels than those in 7.1. I frankly can't see what much more is gained past 5.1. I don't think there could be a lot more gained in an overall system unless one is willing to spend well over 10 grand. I think most systems are pretty comparable that are in the 5-10 grand range. My HT system is pretty inexpensive. The Definitive speakers are reasonable. About $200 for each of 4 corners and $300 for the center channel. A $600 Velodyne subwoofer. = $1700 total speakers. The Yamaha 675 was on sale on Amazon for $299 and drives it all well, but it did originally go for about $500. The Oppo 93 was $500 when I got it. So $2500 total for the audio section. Obviously that doesn't count 75" TV and wall mounting system. Same here, my system for now isn't expensive is pretty low end. It's set up 5.1 thing is sounds and performes admirably. My last set up was well over 10 g,s. EMO Amps, LSI 15,the whole LSI line, two subs and so on. Now my Son uses 7.2 in jis home big living room I have heard moves on his set up in 7.2 at the time 7.1 wasn't out yet on moves just a few years ago. To me like most I am staying put at 5.1 may add 2nd sub.I had the 3D thing, cool but sitting with those 3D glasses on for 3 hours sucks to me anyways. Yep to me anything over 7.2 is propaganda to me. I am going to upgrade my AVR to Yamaha the 2050 or the 3050 by OCT of this year, now what to do with all those extra channels. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jul 26, 2016 10:13:15 GMT -5
OK guys...... it's an AMPLIFIER. Let's be honest..... The XPA Gen2 models sound really really good (as did the XPA Gen1 models). It's not realistic to expect some huge difference here (from anyone, at any price, including us). Exactly what were you hoping would be "so much better with the new one that you can't live with last year's model any more"? The circuitry in the XPA Gen3 is a little bit more sophisticated...... So it sounds tiny bit better...... And it's a little more efficient...... And the new SMPS is also a little bit more efficient...... And, by reducing the overall weight, the new ones are easier to lift, easier and cheaper to ship, and (hopefully) less likely to get shipping damage. They're also modular, so you can add channels later if you need them. So, if I was buying a new amplifier, would I rather have an XPA Gen3 than an XPA Gen2? Sure! Absolutely. But, would I GET RID OF an XPA Gen2 amplifier that I loved and replace it with a new model with the same number of channels? Errrrr.... no. The only reason to replace a Gen2 amp would be if you need more channels, and it's a choice between adding more channels by buying an additional amp, or selling off your current amp and buying an amp with more channels. In that case, I'd probably want to have completely matched channels, and it would make sense. Personally, I find it a little offensive when some company sells me a product that's "the most wonderful thing ever... gotta have it". Then, when next year's model comes out, suddenly last year's "most wonderful thing ever" model is complete crap, but "I just gotta have this year's new model". And we just know it's gonna happen again next year. The XPA Gen2 amps were great amps; they sounded great and worked great; AND THAT HASN'T CHANGED. And the new Gen3 models are a little bit better, and being able to add channels later is very cool........ (And, if you really want this year's model, we'll be happy to sell you one  .) I'm not itchy, my XPA-2 Gen 2 is doing a great job driving my Martin Logans and I figure it will take a disruptive technology before I upgrade anything. I was more curious if Emotiva dropped a deuce with the new amplifier series since I've not seen one review yet. I know many audiophiles are highly critical of the power supply used. They seem hung up on the PA amp thing. Not that any of them have heard it, but they've already written it off. I think you pretty much summed it up as to why no regulars on here, or people with Gen 2 have switched to Gen 3 - they're just not seeing the value in the performance difference for what it would cost them, and/or are waiting for a surge of trusted members here who have switched (from Gen 2) and are marveling at the improvement before coughing up the coin. If it were close to a wash in terms of selling old and buying Gen3, like going Gen1 to Gen2, you'd see more but unfortunately it's not. I don't believe Emo dropped a deuce (but that's just IMO). Although I don't know why there aren't any reviews on Gen3 out there from the formal press, if they are selling as well as Dan says, then I'd assume they made a good move (just one that's not so enticing to members here). Now if they're getting lots of returns on the amps after the trial period and start selling a bunch of refurbs, I'd be concerned but that doesn't appear to be the case. Personally I'm waiting on Gen4 which will make Gen3 sound like trash in comparison....  I kid! I kid! |
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Post by KeithL on Jul 26, 2016 10:25:59 GMT -5
The XPA Gen3 series are our current "top line" of amps - and are expected to stay as such for the immediate future. The XPA Gen3 series replace everything between the XPA-2 and the XPA-7 (the XPA gen3 can be configured with anywhere between 2 and 7 channels). So far we've also kept the XPA-1 Gen2 monoblock - because it's such a classic. There will be more variations in the Gen3 line, including a monoblock, and probably some modules with more, lower powered, channels. Once the XPA-1 Gen3 monoblock comes out, I don't know if the XPA-1 Gen2 will stay around or not (that will depend on if people keep buying them). We've just introduced our BASX line of amps, which are our "lower cost" line, even though they're really good (they're equivalent to the UPA series). You can see several of the new BASX amps on our web site - there are more models to follow (and other BASX products as well). The BASX amps have less power, and use "regular" power supplied with toroidal transformers. The BASX amps sound exceptionally good, and they really are priced insanely low, for what you get, by today's standards. We'll also be introducing our Emersa line of amps soon. Those use the well regarded ICEPower Class-D amplifier modules. They'll be smaller, lighter, and more like what some people call "a lifestyle product". The Emersa line will be our new "middle line" (there will be other Emersa products too.). At the moment, we have no immediate plans to replace the XPR line. While they were VERY cool, they were more power than most people need, and very heavy and expensive to ship. Just to put things in perspective, as of three years ago, according to one survey, only about 1/3 of those with "serious home theater systems" were set up for 7.1 channels, with the remaining 2/3 still doing 5.1 channels. I wasn't asking about HT systems. Others took my question in that direction. I understood that that the XPA Gen 3 replaced the XPA-2 Gen 2, XPR, and SA series. Was I wrong or are there more products coming? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2016 10:29:48 GMT -5
I really like the fact you can order the Gen 3 made to order very smooth indeed. I looked at other amps,I just read a post yesterday on here the guy just set up his XPA 5 Gen 3. Go read his post it's a good one he posted on his thoughts about the new Gen 3. He seems not to have buyer's remorse from his post he seems to be loving the Gen 3 very much.
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Post by Cogito on Jul 26, 2016 10:53:21 GMT -5
OK guys...... it's an AMPLIFIER. Let's be honest..... The XPA Gen2 models sound really really good (as did the XPA Gen1 models). It's not realistic to expect some huge difference here (from anyone, at any price, including us). Exactly what were you hoping would be "so much better with the new one that you can't live with last year's model any more"? The circuitry in the XPA Gen3 is a little bit more sophisticated...... So it sounds tiny bit better...... And it's a little more efficient...... And the new SMPS is also a little bit more efficient...... And, by reducing the overall weight, the new ones are easier to lift, easier and cheaper to ship, and (hopefully) less likely to get shipping damage. They're also modular, so you can add channels later if you need them. So, if I was buying a new amplifier, would I rather have an XPA Gen3 than an XPA Gen2? Sure! Absolutely. But, would I GET RID OF an XPA Gen2 amplifier that I loved and replace it with a new model with the same number of channels? Errrrr.... no. The only reason to replace a Gen2 amp would be if you need more channels, and it's a choice between adding more channels by buying an additional amp, or selling off your current amp and buying an amp with more channels. In that case, I'd probably want to have completely matched channels, and it would make sense. Personally, I find it a little offensive when some company sells me a product that's "the most wonderful thing ever... gotta have it". Then, when next year's model comes out, suddenly last year's "most wonderful thing ever" model is complete crap, but "I just gotta have this year's new model". And we just know it's gonna happen again next year. The XPA Gen2 amps were great amps; they sounded great and worked great; AND THAT HASN'T CHANGED. And the new Gen3 models are a little bit better, and being able to add channels later is very cool........ (And, if you really want this year's model, we'll be happy to sell you one .) I think you pretty much summed it up as to why no regulars on here, or people with Gen 2 have switched to Gen 3 - they're just not seeing the value in the performance difference for what it would cost them, and/or are waiting for a surge of trusted members here who have switched (from Gen 2) and are marveling at the improvement before coughing up the coin. If it were close to a wash in terms of selling old and buying Gen3, like going Gen1 to Gen2, you'd see more but unfortunately it's not. I don't believe Emo dropped a deuce (but that's just IMO). Although I don't know why there aren't any reviews on Gen3 out there from the formal press, if they are selling as well as Dan says, then I'd assume they made a good move (just one that's not so enticing to members here). Now if they're getting lots of returns on the amps after the trial period and start selling a bunch of refurbs, I'd be concerned but that doesn't appear to be the case. Personally I'm waiting on Gen4 which will make Gen3 sound like trash in comparison.... I kid! I kid! Aesthetically, few things are more impressive to an audiophile than big-ass toroidal transformers with a large bank of beefy capacitors. Well, that and giant analog power meters... So you can keep your little "dainty" switching power supplies! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2016 11:08:22 GMT -5
Cogito, did you say power meters?. Man I miss them analog meters on amps..
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Post by rcheliguy on Jul 26, 2016 11:29:18 GMT -5
Cogito , did you say power meters?. Man I miss them analog meters on amps.. LOL! My amplifier isn't even visible behind a closed door. I drilled 3 x 2" holes under it and there is no back panel so my XPA-2 barely gets warm. My Oppo 105D is visible ( but it has a "Pure" mode where it powers off the display) and my speakers are visible. That is about it. BTW I can't hear any difference with the "Pure" mode enabled. FYI, I wasn't expecting the new XPA Gen 3 to be a quantum leap in performance. I'm just used to the typical buyer with upgraditis crowing about how much better a new product is. In fact I've gotten SO USED to this behavior that it seemed suspicious when I didn't hear any. People are wired to want to justify any expense so they don't have any cognitive dissonance. So yes, I'm asking why I'm not reading irrational ravings. Funny right ? Thanks all. |
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Post by Cogito on Jul 26, 2016 12:12:08 GMT -5
Cogito , did you say power meters?. Man I miss them analog meters on amps.. Right???!!! I mean, for the most part, they are useless. They do look damn cool though! Tell me this isn't sexy!  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2016 12:27:49 GMT -5
Cogito , did you say power meters?. Man I miss them analog meters on amps.. LOL! My amplifier isn't even visible behind a closed door. I drilled 3 x 2" holes under it and there is no back panel so my XPA-2 barely gets warm. My Oppo 105D is visible ( but it has a "Pure" mode where it powers off the display) and my speakers are visible. That is about it. BTW I can't hear any difference with the "Pure" mode enabled. FYI, I wasn't expecting the new XPA Gen 3 to be a quantum leap in performance. I'm just used to the typical buyer with upgraditis crowing about how much better a new product is. In fact I've gotten SO USED to this behavior that it seemed suspicious when I didn't hear any. People are wired to want to justify any expense so they don't have any cognitive dissonance. So yes, I'm asking why I'm not reading irrational ravings. Funny right ? Thanks all. Totally agree! I just got back in the hobby, sold off all my gear to my Son two years ago..EMO amps, LSi,s everything. So when I jumped back into this the first thing I did was go looking on EMO,s site and went, wtf?..all the amps are gone! Than I had remorse of selling off all my EMO amps. Like you I love EMO amps big power supplys and so on plus great service too. My XPA 2 gen 1 was so smooth man I could never get that amp to clip with 4 ohm speakers. I have been researching the new EMO amp design. I will try one out come Oct I will pair it with a Yamaha 2050 or the 3050..I also checked out Outlaw amps, but at over 2,g,s and not knowing the service end of about repairs if needed. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2016 12:42:06 GMT -5
Cogito , did you say power meters?. Man I miss them analog meters on amps.. Right???!!! I mean, for the most part, they are useless. They do look damn cool though! Tell me this isn't sexy! Here cold beer for ya for posting the pic..yes indeed.. |
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Post by rcheliguy on Jul 26, 2016 13:54:53 GMT -5
Everyone has a different perspective.
I see that old analog meter and think it's either an antique, or a ridiculously over priced amp that is trying WAY TO HARD to look impressive.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2016 14:33:32 GMT -5
Everyone has a different perspective. I see that old analog meter and think it's either an antique, or a ridiculously over priced amp that is trying WAY TO HARD to look impressive. Good points, I personally wouldn't spend 5 or 10 g,s on a amp. But I do love analog meters on the amp ole school I guess. It's like that move Finding Nemo that yellow fish looking at them bubbles coming out that chest that's me looking at an analog meter on a amp after a hour or so and of course a few beers..lol |
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Post by Cogito on Jul 26, 2016 14:57:45 GMT -5
Everyone has a different perspective. I see that old analog meter and think it's either an antique, or a ridiculously over priced amp that is trying WAY TO HARD to look impressive. Restek amps don't have to try very hard to look expensive, they just are. When I see analog meters, I think "Classy" with a touch of nostalgia. |
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Post by leonski on Jul 26, 2016 18:14:51 GMT -5
Pass Labs meters on the XA series indiate BIAS. When the meter is motionless is best. As you turn it UP, you get meter defection as a function of bias.
A very easy way to STAY fully in class 'A'
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Post by rcheliguy on Jul 26, 2016 19:33:24 GMT -5
Pass Labs meters on the XA series indiate BIAS. When the meter is motionless is best. As you turn it UP, you get meter defection as a function of bias. A very easy way to STAY fully in class 'A' I really don't want to watch my amplifier. It's about as exciting as watching grass grow. However once in a great while I do want to get an indication of whether I'm pushing it too hard. |
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Post by leonski on Jul 26, 2016 19:58:54 GMT -5
Pass Labs meters on the XA series indiate BIAS. When the meter is motionless is best. As you turn it UP, you get meter defection as a function of bias. A very easy way to STAY fully in class 'A' I really don't want to watch my amplifier. It's about as exciting as watching grass grow. However once in a great while I do want to get an indication of whether I'm pushing it too hard. The reason I drug the Pass System into it was it makes FAR more sense than a 'power' meter which is at best good at ONE impedance. Though such meters typically have both a 4 ohm AND an 8 ohm scale. Same difference. The Pass Meter measures bias CURRENT which is without regard to whatever load is applied to the amp. passlabs.com/articles/leaving-class-aInteresting article from Pass about 'class 'A' and the bias condition associated with the different classes of amp. With the meter motionless, somewhere mid-scale, you are biased to class 'A'. As the meter deflects, it is indicating increasing amounts of A/B bias. I note this ONLY for the fans of 'amps with meters'. I'm generally on YOUR side, Rcheliguy, but for those who somehow feel the 'need' for a meter, it might as well DO something useful. |
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Post by rbk123 on Jul 26, 2016 22:00:56 GMT -5
OK guys...... it's an AMPLIFIER. Let's be honest..... The XPA Gen2 models sound really really good (as did the XPA Gen1 models). It's not realistic to expect some huge difference here (from anyone, at any price, including us). Exactly what were you hoping would be "so much better with the new one that you can't live with last year's model any more"? The circuitry in the XPA Gen3 is a little bit more sophisticated...... So it sounds tiny bit better...... And it's a little more efficient...... And the new SMPS is also a little bit more efficient...... And, by reducing the overall weight, the new ones are easier to lift, easier and cheaper to ship, and (hopefully) less likely to get shipping damage. They're also modular, so you can add channels later if you need them. So, if I was buying a new amplifier, would I rather have an XPA Gen3 than an XPA Gen2? Sure! Absolutely. But, would I GET RID OF an XPA Gen2 amplifier that I loved and replace it with a new model with the same number of channels? Errrrr.... no. Ummm, yeah.. that's exactly what I said. Regulars here aren't buying them because they expect them only to be "a little bit better" (if that) but the price difference is not worth it. Gen 2 was "a little bit better" than Gen1 but the price was only "a little bit more" so most here upgraded to them. At present, people here aren't itching to upgrade with Gen 3 unless there's a groundswell that says they are "a lot more better", and that hasn't happened and doubtful if it will happen. It doesn't mean Gen3 are bad, only that they are cost prohibitive to the regulars here as an upgrade. So take some deep breaths, no one (or at least I'm not) is knocking Gen3, just pontificating on why no regulars have bought any. Not really sure why you chose to restate my point, but thanks I guess.. |
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Post by garbulky on Jul 26, 2016 22:14:16 GMT -5
Well why am I not wanting to ditch my amp over gen 3? Other than the tried and tested obvious power supply thing....well what does it seriously bring over my XPA-1 gen 2? Does it have the capacitance? (Not mentioned), Does it do a large torroidal supply? Granted it does have a 3.2 Kba switcher. Does it do fully balanced? Does it do 60 watts class A? Does it have the proven reliability with the switching PS? Can it do all that while providing all that power? (1000 watts in to four ohms?)
Those are the questions that hold me back. But let's also be realistic....what other amps do this at anywhere near the price range? If you want all of that, you are looking at very expensive amps.
But Emotiva has never made a bad amp ever. I very much doubt they would ruin their bread and butter amp. I have little doubt it sounds great!
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Post by floyd94 on Jul 26, 2016 23:38:07 GMT -5
I am not a "trusted regular" here so I guess my opinion doesn't count for much. However I am an owner of a gen3 and I briefly owned a gen2. I think when you consider the entire package (build, sound, power, refinement) the gen3 is more than a little bit better. I really don't understand the lack of excitement surrounding this product.. Maybe it's a marketing problem.
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Post by novisnick on Jul 26, 2016 23:52:32 GMT -5
I am not a "trusted regular" here so I guess my opinion doesn't count for much. However I am an owner of a gen3 and I briefly owned a gen2. I think when you consider the entire package (build, sound, power, refinement) the gen3 is more the a little bit better. I really don't understand the lack of excitement surrounding this product.. Maybe it's a marketing problem. Thanks so much for your input! Everyone is a trusted member until proven otherwise! So glad youvyspoken up! |
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I kid! I kid! 
