Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2016 9:21:11 GMT -5
 Ok as I have stated in a previous post I received my 1975 Thorens TD-145 back from Resto with a brand new Cart/Stylus and re-wired tone arm...My problem is this I still have crappy clicks and pops that sometimes drive me insane! Wait before you say clean your records I have cleaned them multiple times in every way you can imagine and is recommended(with the exception of some 2k cleaner box) I use a carbon brush BEFORE I play and clean the stylus as well...Even my brand new Adele album has a click and a pop and in contrast I have a 35 year old "America" album that is dead silent on side A but not B...Do I need just to get used to it? Or could the cart be out of alignment or? It's not a scratch that is a regular timed noise they are random...
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jun 1, 2016 10:35:49 GMT -5
1) To some degree you will have to get used to it. While an actual scratch will make a "permanent click" that will be heard for several revolutions at the same spot, even a speck of dust landing on the record may make a one-time tick before the stylus pushes it out of the way. So, while many vinyl lovers insist that "if you keep your records clean you won't get ticks and pops", that's really a bit of an exaggeration. Many people who are used to vinyl simply ignore the occasional dust tick or pop. 2) Another thing that can cause significant random pops is the build-up of static electricity on the record surface due to friction between the stylus and the record. The record is vinyl, which is a pretty good insulator. Static can build up on the surface, then dissipate by jumping a tiny spark across the diamond stylus to the metal cantilever. This will make a single loud pop every so often. Even if you've gotten rid of any static before playing the record, or used some sort of antistatic device, the movement of the stylus in the groove can generate more. If you notice the problem more on dry days than on damp days, then this is probably what's causing it. Your Thorens has a rubber mat on the platter - which can make this worse under some circumstances. If it is static, you can usually eliminate, or at least reduce it by adding an antistatic turntable mat. You can either replace the rubber mat with an antistatic one, or put a thin felt antistatic mat on top of the rubber one. (Since the antistatic mat is a conductive material with a very high resistance, it needs to contact the metal of the turntable somehow. Therefore, if you put it on top of the rubber mat, it's often a good idea to put a sheet of thin aluminum foil between them - so the felt mat is sitting on a conductive surface. If you do so, make sure that the foil is cut and placed such that it touches the metal center spindle - make the center hole too small so little bits of the foil remain in contact with the spindle.) Alternately, there are little brush gadgets with carbon bristles that ride on the record and continually "wipe away" static in front of the stylus (some attach to the stylus itself). NOTE: If you alter the height of where the record sits significantly by making the pad thicker or thinner, you will want to readjust the stylus height/angle. If you attach any sort of antistatic device to the tonearm or cartridge, and so change its weight, you will need to adjust the tracking force and possibly the anti-skating adjustment. Ok as I have stated in a previous post I received my 1975 Thorens TD-145 back from Resto with a brand new Cart/Stylus and re-wired tone arm...My problem is this I still have crappy clicks and pops that sometimes drive me insane! Wait before you say clean your records I have cleaned them multiple times in every way you can imagine and is recommended(with the exception of some 2k cleaner box) I use a carbon brush BEFORE I play and clean the stylus as well...Even my brand new Adele album has a click and a pop and in contrast I have a 35 year old "America" album that is dead silent on side A but not B...Do I need just to get used to it? Or could the cart be out of alignment or? It's not a scratch that is a regular timed noise they are random... |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2016 13:23:13 GMT -5
Thanks! That Mat thing sounds like it has hope! Static may be a big issue!
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Post by doc1963 on Jun 1, 2016 15:06:58 GMT -5
Ok as I have stated in a previous post I received my 1975 Thorens TD-145 back from Resto with a brand new Cart/Stylus and re-wired tone arm...My problem is this I still have crappy clicks and pops that sometimes drive me insane! Wait before you say clean your records I have cleaned them multiple times in every way you can imagine and is recommended(with the exception of some 2k cleaner box) I use a carbon brush BEFORE I play and clean the stylus as well...Even my brand new Adele album has a click and a pop and in contrast I have a 35 year old "America" album that is dead silent on side A but not B...Do I need just to get used to it? Or could the cart be out of alignment or? It's not a scratch that is a regular timed noise they are random... It's true that you are never going to eliminate every single "pop" and "click" from a vinyl record. This is inherent to the format and something that every vinyl enthusiast has learned to live with to some extent. Even a "good and proper" cleaning isn't going to eliminate the effects of a scratch, scuff or a less than perfect pressing, but will largely minimize surface noise (or eliminate if done thoroughly and properly) and will greatly elevate your enjoyment of the vinyl experience. On the topic of cleaning, how are you cleaning them? What cleaning solution are you using? Do you rinse thoroughly after cleaning using mineral free (distilled) water? Do you vacuum? If we know more, maybe we can offer some different ideas or a different way of achieving a more effective cleaning technique. After cleaning, how are you storing them? If you're putting them back into an original paper sleeve, you've likely just wasted your time. Beyond cleaning and storage, a "dry" environment is a vinyl lovers worst enemy. You must control humidity before you can control static. A small room humidifier and a Milty "Zero-Stat" gun can be your best friends if the climate of your listening room is far less than ideal. Not to worry though, not many among us are blessed enough to have "ideal" conditions and my aforementioned suggestions do help "if" your issues are static related. Replacing the stock mat is an excellent idea and a good place to start, BUT felt is horrible and you will quickly hate it. I would recommend either a Herbie's "Way Excellent" mat (which I use) or one of the leather mats which can be found on Amazon. I've never personally used a leather mat, but I've read they are very effective at reducing both resonance and static and won't set you back an arm and half a leg. If you replace your mat, do be very careful with its thickness. As Keith has stated, the thickness of the mat will affect the vertical tracking angle (VTA) of the stylus. If your table has no VTA adjustment, then you will need to match the thickness of the original mat as closely as possible. A mat that's a little thinner would be fine, but do not exceed the thickness of the original and do not stack mats if you cannot adjust the VTA. FWIW, a Herbie's mat will meet the original specs. Hope this helps...  |
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Post by Raven on Jun 1, 2016 15:13:33 GMT -5
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Post by sidvicious on Jun 1, 2016 16:35:45 GMT -5
Here is the Deal, with vinyl there is the problem with clicks and pops, but most of this unless their is a pressing issue is related to cleaning and some is related to static build up in the room, some times I use a humidifier a very small one for the dryness, mostly in winter, which can cause static. If you use a vacuum record cleaner, you must watch how many times you allow the record to go around, no more than three times or else you will build up static electricity. You can hear static when you either put a record on a player or take it off (Static Cling effect). Static will manifest itself as clicks and pops as well. I use a very a very anal cleaning method, so I'm able to eliminate, about 90-98 percent of the problems, unless they exist in the record itself. Some records you just can't save. You have to ask yourself this question, if you buy used records, which I do, it's hard to clean 40-50 years of dust, grime, cigarette, cigar smoke and other items in that kind of record with just soap and water or a regular cleaning solution. You need an enzyme cleaner. I use one and I'm able to get that last amount of dust and dirt out and if I can't, I conclude it to either the pressing or damaged grooves. I have bought brand new records that the grooves were damaged and missing information on the record, this is a bad pressing. This is one of the cleaning methods I use and boy does it work wonders, I have gotten records that look like they were used as coaster (Good to Vg- condition) to sound like Vg plus. I thought I had tried every method on You Tube until I tried this by a guy named Kool Kat Jazz, it works, but if you use more yeast (3/4 of a cup), you can cut the time down to 2 weeks before using the solution instead of one to two months. www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA_vCgxVTjU |
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Post by sidvicious on Jun 1, 2016 16:38:03 GMT -5
Duplicate Post Sorry, deleted it.
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Post by Priapulus on Jun 1, 2016 17:17:47 GMT -5
I was having trouble with static induced pops and clicks. I solved them by bonding the metal parts of the platter, tonearm and chassis to the ground in the pickup wires (e.i. the signal ground; I didn't connect them to the power ground of the motor). That's just a small wire connecting under a screw (against an unpainted metal part), electrically joining each item.
Sincerely
/b
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Jun 1, 2016 17:20:26 GMT -5
I just wanted to add a warning about humidifiers...... The old-style humidifiers (with a belt and a water tank) are clean, as are "hot water humidifiers" which boil or warm water to make steam. HOWEVER, the modern "ultrasonic" humidifiers and "cool mist" humidifiers work by spraying a fine mist of water droplets into the air - which then evaporate. The problem is that, if you have even slightly hard water, as each droplet evaporates, it leaves behind a tiny dust particle - which then settle on nearby surfaces as a sort of sticky dust - which would be VERY bad for records. Therefore, I would suggest either avoiding those entirely, or using only some sort of distilled or deionized water in them (or, at the very least, not running one while you have records either playing or sitting exposed on a turntable). (Many people also swear by using dilute Elmer's glue as a sort of "mask" to clean really dirty records. No kidding; Google it for the details.) Here is the Deal, with vinyl there is the problem with clicks and pops, but most of this unless their is a pressing issue is related to cleaning and some is related to static build up in the room, some times I use a humidifier a very small one for the dryness, mostly in winter, which can cause static. If you use a vacuum record cleaner, you must watch how many times you allow the record to go around, no more than three times or else you will build up static electricity. You can hear static when you either put a record on a player or take it off (Static Cling effect). Static will manifest itself as clicks and pops as well. I use a very, very, very, anal cleaning method, so I'm able to eliminate, about 90-98 percent of the problems, unless they exist in the record itself. Some records you just can't save. You have to ask yourself this question, if you buy used records, which I do, it's hard to clean 40-50 years of dust, grime, cigarette, cigar smoke and other kinds of filthy items of that kind in a record groove with just soap and water or a regular cleaning solution. You need an enzyme cleaner to eat away at the dirt and dust. I use one and I'm able to get that last amount of dust and dirt out and if I can't, I conclude it to either the pressing or damaged grooves. I have bought brand new records that the grooves were damaged and missing information on the record, this is a bad pressing. This is one of the cleaning methods I use and boy does it work wonders, I have gotten records that look like they were used as coaster (Good to Vg- condition) to sound like Vg plus. I thought I had tried every method on You Tube and invented some of my own, until I tried this one by a guy named Kool Kat Jazz on You Tube, it works, but if you use more yeast (3/4 of a cup), you can cut the time down to 2 weeks before using the solution instead of one to two months. This step is used as the third step in a four step cleaning process by me: www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA_vCgxVTjU |
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Post by vcautokid on Jun 1, 2016 17:53:37 GMT -5
You guys are reminding me how much work vinyl is.  |
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Post by Raven on Jun 1, 2016 21:19:49 GMT -5
I noticed few times that in a rainy days was significantly less static...
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Post by novisnick on Jun 1, 2016 22:03:47 GMT -5
I noticed few times that in a rainy days was significantly less static... Yeh! Just had one of those!      Around town today when the lights went out! |
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hemster
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Particle Manufacturer
...still listening... still watching
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Post by hemster on Jun 1, 2016 22:21:54 GMT -5
.... (Many people also swear by using dilute Elmer's glue as a sort of "mask" to clean really dirty records. No kidding; Google it for the details.) Yeah, about that... it always bothered me that Elmer's glue can clean dirty records. I see the science part of it but there's the practical application part that concerns me,  |
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Post by Raven on Jun 1, 2016 22:30:21 GMT -5
I noticed few times that in a rainy days was significantly less static... Yeh! Just had one of those! Around town today when the lights went out! So, lets call it a TT day or should I say vinyl evening?!  |
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Post by novisnick on Jun 1, 2016 22:34:27 GMT -5
Yeh! Just had one of those! Around town today when the lights went out! So, lets call it a TT day or should I say vinyl evening?! Its been a complete vinyl day! Except when the power was out!  |
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Post by novisnick on Jun 1, 2016 23:04:55 GMT -5
You guys are reminding me how much work vinyl is. Work? Its all love my friend! Nothing to it really!! |
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Jun 2, 2016 10:14:06 GMT -5
I'd have to say that, while I sort of agree that the idea is a bit scary, it really does make sense (and, apparently, it works). The glue sticks very well to itself, and pretty well to dirt, but not especially well to vinyl. So the glue peels off as a single "unit", with the dirt stuck to it, but doesn't bother the vinyl. (I sort of worry about chemicals in the glue affecting the record - but, apparently, the chemicals in "white glue" are relatively innocuous.) If you want to think about something scary, do the math about the tracking force of the stylus, and the actual area of the stylus that contacts the record. (The tracking force is only a few grams, but when you work it out in pounds-per-square-inch, it works out about like having a dump truck balanced on the palm of your hand.) .... (Many people also swear by using dilute Elmer's glue as a sort of "mask" to clean really dirty records. No kidding; Google it for the details.) Yeah, about that... it always bothered me that Elmer's glue can clean dirty records. I see the science part of it but there's the practical application part that concerns me, |
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Post by monkumonku on Jun 2, 2016 10:34:54 GMT -5
I'd have to say that, while I sort of agree that the idea is a bit scary, it really does make sense (and, apparently, it works). The glue sticks very well to itself, and pretty well to dirt, but not especially well to vinyl. So the glue peels off as a single "unit", with the dirt stuck to it, but doesn't bother the vinyl. (I sort of worry about chemicals in the glue affecting the record - but, apparently, the chemicals in "white glue" are relatively innocuous.) If you want to think about something scary, do the math about the tracking force of the stylus, and the actual area of the stylus that contacts the record. (The tracking force is only a few grams, but when you work it out in pounds-per-square-inch, it works out about like having a dump truck balanced on the palm of your hand.) Yeah, about that... it always bothered me that Elmer's glue can clean dirty records. I see the science part of it but there's the practical application part that concerns me, Well now I can just see some company taking advantage of this and coming out with "premium" glue that purports to be Elmer's Glue but upgraded to an enhanced version containing cryogenically-treated ionized particles with 11 secret herbs and spices, for $98 per ounce. |
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Post by nwobhm on Jun 2, 2016 14:45:17 GMT -5
If the source of the noise is static - there is an easy solution. I know I'll catch some flak for the cost of these things (around $90), but, trust me - they work. Simply aim at the spinning record prior to dropping the needle and AFTER brushing it with an Audioquest or Hunt style record brush, SLOWLY squeeze the trigger in while holding it about 6-8" above the record, aim it away from the record and SLOWLY release the trigger. Done. I've had one for years (the prior red colored iteration) and it works beautifully. They were originally created for photography aficionados to eliminate dust from clinging to negatives prior to making prints. It and my VPI 16.5 record cleaning machine are perhaps the two oldest pieces of equipment I own - wouldn't be without either.  |
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Post by qdtjni on Jun 2, 2016 16:06:22 GMT -5
You^re always gonna have some of that with vinyl even from the cleanest and well treated records, accept it or go completely digital.
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Ok as I have stated in a previous post I received my 1975 Thorens TD-145 back from Resto with a brand new Cart/Stylus and re-wired tone arm...My problem is this I still have crappy clicks and pops that sometimes drive me insane! Wait before you say clean your records I have cleaned them multiple times in every way you can imagine and is recommended(with the exception of some 2k cleaner box) I use a carbon brush BEFORE I play and clean the stylus as well...Even my brand new Adele album has a click and a pop and in contrast I have a 35 year old "America" album that is dead silent on side A but not B...Do I need just to get used to it? Or could the cart be out of alignment or? It's not a scratch that is a regular timed noise they are random...
