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Post by 111hollywood on Aug 8, 2016 8:27:21 GMT -5
Looking for advice on next steps. Currently running a Sunfire Theater Grand IV preamp/proc with a Emotiva XDA-1 DAC and an Emotiva XPA-2 Amp. Various sources include a Sony CD player an Audio Technica turntable and an Apple MacBook for MP3's and lossless music. I have a set of KEF Q900 speakers that replaced some Martin Logan Source speakers. Still looking for that WOW factor out of my turntable and CD music but not quite getting it. Is the Sunfire the weak link in this chain? Should I replace / upgrade the DAC? Speakers? UGH!
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Post by mshump on Aug 8, 2016 9:12:39 GMT -5
Your system should be singing like heck.
Can you explain what it's not doing. to aid you better?
Is this a 2 channel issue or HT issue?
How old are your speakers? Are they broke in? Have you really adjusted them, from the wall, toes in, tilt?
If neither your turntable or digital sounds good then you may need to play with your pre/pro settings.
For the digital side you can disconnect the Sunfire and run the XDA-1 as the pre-amp to see if the Sunfire is hindering things.
What is the output level of your XDA-1 set at ?
Mark
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Post by garbulky on Aug 8, 2016 9:25:40 GMT -5
Hey there. Well yes your system should be sounding pretty darn nice imo. I think the most obvious thing is your room setup and speaker placement. Tiny changes in speaker palcement and toe in and result in large improvements to the sound. Other things like pulling them away from the rear walls may help too. Also if you haven't got a acoustic panel - do so, it's the cheapest and best hardware improvement I've heard. www.atsacoustics.com/item--ATS-Acoustic-Panel-24-x-48-x-2--1001.htmlEven one of these will make a difference. I put mine right behind my head on the wall and it makes a realyl nice difference. The more the better. Why don't you post a picture of your setup taken from your couch so that we can see everything including the speakers. We can give you some simple advice that may help. You'd be surprised at how much placement can help. The last piece of advice is the XDA-1 is quite nice, but at this point there are better electronics out there now. However, this isn't necessarily your problem. I think it's more of a setup issue. Also if your Sunfire has a setting for large and small speakers - make sure you set them to large. |
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Post by garbulky on Aug 8, 2016 9:26:58 GMT -5
Hi, I posted some tips in the other thread. One question do you have the XDA-1 connected via USB or the optical connection from your macbook? It does sound a bit better via the optical.
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Post by Boomzilla on Aug 8, 2016 9:47:27 GMT -5
...I think the most obvious thing is your room setup and speaker placement. Tiny changes in speaker palcement and toe in and result in large improvements to the sound. Other things like pulling them away from the rear walls may help too. Also if you haven't got a acoustic panel - do so, it's the cheapest and best hardware improvement I've heard. www.atsacoustics.com/item--ATS-Acoustic-Panel-24-x-48-x-2--1001.htmlEven one of these will make a difference. I put mine right behind my head on the wall and it makes a realyl nice difference. The more the better... Maybe, maybe not... The first one makes the most difference. |
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Post by brutiarti on Aug 8, 2016 10:28:22 GMT -5
I will try room treatments first. Your setup should sound really good but maybe you are listening the room instead... if you have picture that will help
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Post by 111hollywood on Aug 8, 2016 11:57:27 GMT -5
Great Stuff - thanks (so far).
Cable from the MacBook to the DAC is a Transparent USB. Didn't hear much difference in running a SPDIF optical.
I am only concerned about 2 channel currently.
My KEF's are about 6' apart and 12" from the wall which is painted drywall. The couch is about 12' from the speakers and then the room is open behind the couch to a bar area.
The settings on the Sunfire are: - speakers = large - phone = sourcedir - CD / Apple = sourcedir (coming from DAC)
I just picked up the KEF's from a pawn shop (yeah I know) so I don't know the history. I've been trying to break them in to see if they loosen up. The sound good at higher volumes, but I can't shake the house all the time!!
The DAC's volume is set at 80
I'll try to get a picture of the room tonight.
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Post by brutiarti on Aug 8, 2016 12:01:32 GMT -5
Great Stuff - thanks (so far).
Cable from the MacBook to the DAC is a Transparent USB. Didn't hear much difference in running a SPDIF optical.
I am only concerned about 2 channel currently.
My KEF's are about 6' apart and 12" from the wall which is painted drywall. The couch is about 12' from the speakers and then the room is open behind the couch to a bar area.
The settings on the Sunfire are: - speakers = large - phone = sourcedir - CD / Apple = sourcedir (coming from DAC)
I just picked up the KEF's from a pawn shop (yeah I know) so I don't know the history. I've been trying to break them in to see if they loosen up. The sound good at higher volumes, but I can't shake the house all the time!!
The DAC's volume is set at 80
I'll try to get a picture of the room tonight.
Try the DAC at 100. Actually some dacs get lousy at lower levels than the max |
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Post by garbulky on Aug 8, 2016 12:19:51 GMT -5
Post a picture of the room. That works better. We can give you advice about toe in and other stuff.
A better DAC may be beneficial - but not as much as room placement and acoustic treatments.
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Post by vneal on Aug 8, 2016 14:40:08 GMT -5
speakers
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Post by 111hollywood on Aug 9, 2016 8:29:07 GMT -5
Picture of the room. I did pull the speakers out from the wall about 18" and toed them in to cross about 1-2 feet in front of my listening position. The sound is better. Imaging is in the center, but not a very wide sound stage now. Still need to play with it, but moving things around on the carpet with the spikes is irritating.  |
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Post by pedrocols on Aug 9, 2016 8:51:25 GMT -5
Picture of the room. I did pull the speakers out from the wall about 18" and toed them in to cross about 1-2 feet in front of my listening position. The sound is better. Imaging is in the center, but not a very wide sound stage now. Still need to play with it, but moving things around on the carpet with the spikes is irritating. I see that you have leather couches and those are known to potentially have a negative effect on sound. |
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Post by simpleman68 on Aug 9, 2016 9:08:55 GMT -5
Lots of great advice so far but the glaring issue I see is basic placement. Your speakers look to be about 5' apart and the shot reveals ~10' + to the listening area.
This will certainly kill your staging and imaging.
Another issue that will give you muddy bass and accentuated mid bass is the lower ceiling portion that the speakers are under. I'm guessing that is bad news
particularly when they're only 12" from the back wall. Pull them 2' forward and sample that placement.
I'd relocate the shelving units and spread each speaker out at least 1.5'
That alone should make a huge difference.
Scott
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Post by brutiarti on Aug 9, 2016 9:28:49 GMT -5
Those speakers are way too close to each other
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 9, 2016 9:30:17 GMT -5
"Looking for advice on next steps. Currently running a Sunfire Theater Grand IV preamp/proc with a Emotiva XDA-1 DAC and an Emotiva XPA-2 Amp. Various sources include a Sony CD player an Audio Technica turntable and an Apple MacBook for MP3's and lossless music. I have a set of KEF Q900 speakers that replaced some Martin Logan Source speakers. Still looking for that WOW factor"
I had the Sunfire TG as the heart of my own system until issues had me replace it with Emotiva's XMC1.
I still consider that Sunfire to be one of the finest sounding preamps available at any price.
The built in phono section is excellent and adds further to its value.
If you are not yet satisfied with the end result the issue is not there or at least I would have a tough time imagining so.
Bill
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Post by frenchyfranky on Aug 9, 2016 9:31:41 GMT -5
+1 to simpleman68For my self the first thing to do should be to relocate the shelves rack on the sidewalls to get more space and to let breading the speakers of the back wall, more space between them and from the back wall. |
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 9, 2016 9:38:47 GMT -5
Looking now at the photo, I also agree your loudspeaker placement leaves a lot to be desired.
I would find a new home for those shelves by the speakers and move the speakers apart 2 feet on each side. No need for spikes...are they add on or built in?
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Post by mgbpuff on Aug 9, 2016 9:41:38 GMT -5
I agree with Simpleman68 - wider spacing of speakers and listening position should be centered between speakers. The Carver is a little dated as to movie codecs and no HDMI, but for 2 channel sound is the Carver doing a A to D for digital processing purposes? If so is there a direct analog path that eliminates the digital processing? If you want to replace one thing that will make the biggest difference, replace the Carver with a XMC-1.
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Post by garbulky on Aug 9, 2016 9:48:58 GMT -5
Okay the most obvious thing I can see is that the speakers are too close together for your listening distance. I would say they would benefit from being further apart. Also pull them a bit further forward past the plane of your equipment rack. Move the side table out of the way. Buy one of these and put it behind your head on the wall at head level. www.atsacoustics.com/item--ATS-Acoustic-Panel-24-x-48-x-2--1001.htmlThe toe in thing is dependent. I haven't had much luck with speakers crossed in front of my listening position. For me it collapses the soundstage. I like them crossing a bit behind my head. Different speakers do differently, so I think it's a subjective thing. Also obviously - make sure you are dead center with the speakers. Not sitting to the side. |
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Post by frenchyfranky on Aug 9, 2016 9:52:54 GMT -5
Also the speakers are the most important source of sounds difference in a system, you'll obtaining a bigger sounds difference in changing speakers than any other components in the chain, because each mark, model, design, etc, etc, of speakers have a different and specific sonic signature like any music instruments, two different models of pianos or guitars sounds different, the speakers in a sound system are the physical instruments that they produce the sound waves to your ears, so it is the most important thing in the chain to reproduce the music.
So it is also possible that you don't like your new Kef speakers, who knows excepted you, it's only a matter of tastes.
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